Latest Comments Digest

100 latest comments from our from all posts articles on our site, newest at the top
(Click on the Date link at the end of each entry to see the entire comment)

  • User AvatarChristopher Johns { But marc it's been fun. Imma leave that last comment as it stands. I just hope we both can come to truth. Have a great... } – Dec 15, 12:35 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Marc. Romans 10 has been discussed here in dept. I’ll post it again here. Notice the difference between God and Christ through all of Romans... } – Dec 15, 9:00 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Ugh. 1 Peter 2:3 was totally ignored while 1 Peter 3:15 you resorted to using an unreliable text. Try this: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+3%3A15&version=NASB And the evidence I... } – Dec 15, 8:46 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Marc. It won’t let me post links. Each time I do it won’t post. } – Dec 15, 8:42 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { I'd like to see where Sharpe applies these rules to John 20:28. Please reference a link or citation for your assertion. For Thomas "said unto... } – Dec 15, 8:37 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { And another. Did Thomas address Jesus as God in John 20:28? Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” Let’s read the verse in context. 24... } – Dec 15, 8:07 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Marc Thank again. ISAIAH 8:13 isnt applied to jesus in 1 Pet 3:15. Notice the distinctions in 1 Peter Chapter 3 between God and Christ.... } – Dec 15, 8:06 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { John 20:28 The Granville Sharp First and Sixth Rules The Granville Sharp First Rule of Greek Grammar states that when you have a TSKS construction,... } – Dec 15, 7:49 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { How can the Lord Jesus not be YHWH when 1. Peter applies YHWH from Psalm 34:8 unto Him in 1 Peter 2:3? 2. Peter applies... } – Dec 15, 7:13 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Chris, I'd like to see some lexical backing for your assertion because I found this: 1. BDAG (3rd Edition): Concerning John 20:28 states that... } – Dec 15, 7:09 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Still none of the evidence I gave concerning Romans 10 has been refuted. } – Dec 15, 7:03 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Marc. The whole context of Romans 10 is God. Not jesus. He is mentioned though. Also Hebrews 1:8 does not say "Thy Throne of God"... } – Dec 15, 6:42 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Marc. If you that doesnt get it. Let me get someone else to explain it you you since John 20:28 completely contradicts 1 Tim 2:5.... } – Dec 15, 6:40 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { None of the evidence I gave concerning Romans 10:13 is in reference to Jesus was refuted. In terms of Hebrews 1:8 notice Hebrews 1:10 does... } – Dec 15, 5:09 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { It's you that don't get it. Thomas referred to the Lord Jesus as "my God" and Thomas was a monotheist. } – Dec 15, 5:06 AM
  • User AvatarChris John's { Marc, Hebrews 1:8 isnt the only possible translation. Even the ASV which us extremely accurate in the footnotes shows that " God is your throne... } – Dec 15, 4:49 AM
  • User AvatarChris John's { Marc, Hebrews 1:8 isnt thebes ok not possible translation. Even the ASV which us extremely accurate in the footnotes shows that " God is your... } – Dec 15, 4:48 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { He doesnt get it. He says God doesnt have a God yet when jesus said "I am ascending to my God" throws his whole arguement... } – Dec 15, 4:38 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Richard, It was not for Jesus to give such information "right now" to those making such a request self-centered request. Christ will not take... } – Dec 15, 4:23 AM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { Hello Marc,you have not commented on what Jesus meant in Mathew 20:23.This is where the Mother of the Sons of Zebedee aproached Jesus & asked... } – Dec 15, 2:51 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { You asked if God has a God. The answer is no, because there is only one God. The Son calls the Father "God" in John... } – Dec 15, 1:32 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Pretty interesting here. Jesus and Jehovah (Yahweh) This site's purpose is to respond to claims that Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh by pointing out what the scriptures... } – Dec 15, 12:18 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { None of that you said shows Jesus to be jehovah. "There is one God and One mediator between God and man the man Christ Jesus."... } – Dec 15, 12:07 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { To know the only true God (John 17:3) = To know the Lord (Hebrews 8:11) Hebrews 8:11 is from Jeremiah 31:34 and this "knowing" the... } – Dec 14, 7:10 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { But they are never referred to as "my God" for a very good reason. Jesus is given worship in Revelation because of His attributes -... } – Dec 14, 6:55 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Jesus is not the YHWH of the Old Testament. Psalm 110:1 “Jehovah said to my Lord “Sit at my Right hand...” Jesus is said to... } – Dec 14, 5:34 PM
  • User AvatarChris J { THey are called God. Elohim. Plain and simple. Yet we don’t called them God do we. I have heard the argument that since Jesus and... } – Dec 14, 2:54 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { I meant to write 1 Peter 3:15 (not 2:15). These are not the only places YHWH from the OLd Testament is applied unto the Lord... } – Dec 14, 2:50 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Chris, Moses and Abraham are never properly referred to as "my God" - this only should be applied to the true God (cf. John 20:28).... } – Dec 14, 2:45 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Still incorrect. Moses and Abraham and Angels are Called God as well. Jesus said we are gods. Also, the Bible says 1 Cor 8:6 “there... } – Dec 14, 2:15 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { I meant to say "functional subjection does not necessitate ontological inferiority." Look at the attributes both the Father and the Son receive praise for in... } – Dec 14, 12:29 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Chris, Ontological subjection does not necessitate ontological inferiority. "God" (theos) is primarily (although not exclusively) used of the Father. The same holds true concerning... } – Dec 14, 12:10 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Peter, As I pointed out above, the foundation for which I believe the Trinity is the Bible. There is one God and yet the... } – Dec 14, 12:00 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Peter, I believe the Bible. "There is One God and One Mediator between God and Man." Hod is never called three. Jesus said the head... } – Dec 14, 11:36 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Amen Peter, The world is not aware of Gods plan. That's why we are a little flock. Narrow is the way and FEW are the... } – Dec 14, 11:33 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Thanks Marc for your reply. The The Nicene Creed principally drawn up by the Council of Nice in A.D. 325, states "...God of (or from)... } – Dec 14, 7:45 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { The "trinities" of pagans is not really that comparable to the Christian Trinity in that in Christianity the belief in only 1 God is affirmed.... } – Dec 14, 4:10 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Marc - Are you aware of the history of how the idea of the Trinity became a Christian doctrine, even though not found in any... } – Dec 13, 6:01 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Thanks Marc. The link I provided answers your point -- Acts 4:12…no other name. The world of mankind will have the opportunity to call on... } – Dec 13, 5:30 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Acts 4:12...no other name. } – Dec 11, 3:57 PM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { It's pretty much Black and White for you Marc? You either know Jesus NOW or perish forever? } – Dec 11, 10:49 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Peter, Thanks for your kind words. I think God does love everyone in that He demonstrates His goodness on both the just and the... } – Dec 11, 6:00 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Marc, What I like about you is you unapologetically come out and say exactly what you believe and you are even providing sculptures which you... } – Dec 11, 4:47 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { If this person dies they are still in their sins. A person "in their sins" is not forgiven. So the answer to your question is... } – Dec 10, 9:34 PM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { Hey Marc, So if a person has NEVER heard of Jesus or been witness to about Jesus, are they "eternally and consciously separated from God... } – Dec 10, 9:19 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Peter, Another huge topic. I am not sure how much detail you want in what I believe, but I will start with a few... } – Dec 10, 9:04 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Marc, Would you be willing to discuss another topic? What are your thoughts on Salvation? Who will be saved and who are lost? For example,... } – Dec 10, 8:10 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Rolando, I also found this concerning John 5:23 in which Charles Taze Russell cited in reference to praying to/worshiping the Lord Jesus. Prayers of... } – Dec 10, 7:05 PM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { This is a great presentation and a great Witness effort. I remember when I was still with the JW's, I invited some of my free... } – Dec 10, 5:04 PM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { I heard a talk by one of their elders once, he referred to the Father in his prayer as "Daddy". } – Dec 10, 4:59 PM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { It's interesting to note what Pastor Russell said on page 540 and 541 of the Question Book on this subject. QUESTION (1912)--1--Are there special instances... } – Dec 10, 4:55 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Peter, Yes, I would agree with the above. } – Dec 10, 2:25 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K (Admin) { Thanks Marc. I appreciate you because you are are making an honest effort to attempt to answer questions. Many Christians through the centuries have had... } – Dec 10, 10:51 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { They were not worshiped in Isaiah 60:14. They were given obeisance. Unlike in Greek, there is no Hebrew word in the Bible for the worship... } – Dec 10, 8:21 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { To call upon the name of the Lord means the same thing as praying to the Lord. Psalm 116:4 Then I called upon the name... } – Dec 10, 8:08 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Marc, Joseph was honored as the second ruler in Egypt under Pharaoh. They were both honored as rulers, but were two different people. If bowing... } – Dec 10, 6:53 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Marc - Thanks for engaging in conversation with us. None of the scriptures you referenced used the word "prayer." You take expressions like "calling on... } – Dec 10, 6:45 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Thus Ronald E. Frye is terribly wrong when he asserts that latreuō is "never to Jesus Christ" (page 41). http://www.christianrespondent.com/pubs/Father-Son.pdf Try as they may, those... } – Dec 10, 6:05 AM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { But they were never properly called "my God" - but Jesus was because He is the true God. } – Dec 10, 5:57 AM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { Dear Bro Chris,you/we are wasting our time.Nowhere was Marc able to explain any scripture that says God is greater than Jesus,or why Jesus is the... } – Dec 09, 11:25 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { They do not receive "the same worship" https://www.christforums.com/forums/topic/27764-david-was-not-worshiped-in-1-chronicles-2920/?tab=comments#comment-99479 } – Dec 09, 10:27 PM
  • User AvatarChris { So then 1 Chron 29:20 shows that God and mind receive the same worship. Hmmm go ahead a google a site rnst will confirm what... } – Dec 09, 10:24 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Yes. Touche. Becasue I used to argue with every trinitarian I could find. Which is why you came to this page. Spiritual maturity will come... } – Dec 09, 10:23 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Again I'll let you have the last word since it will make you feel better. I used to be just like rnst. Jehivah will open... } – Dec 09, 10:22 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Again I'll let you have the last word since its going to make you feel like you proved someone wrong. I hope jehovah opens your... } – Dec 09, 10:20 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Not one passage exists where believers render to the Father any kind of so-called superior worship to Him that the Lord Jesus does not receive.... } – Dec 09, 10:20 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { From a Unitarian: John W. Schoenheit: 9:14. “call upon your name.” This phrase refers to prayer, and here people in Damascus were praying to Jesus.... } – Dec 09, 10:15 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Yo are arguing too so that means you are insecure in your beliefs. Touche' } – Dec 09, 10:14 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Marc. I'll let you get that last word since it what you want. Have a great night. } – Dec 09, 10:10 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Bible- Father is greater that I am You-Jesus IS coequal with the father. Bible- This means everlasting life. Their knowing YOU the only true God.... } – Dec 09, 10:09 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Preaching that jesus is the ain of God makes it a prayer to him? 😂😂😂 } – Dec 09, 10:07 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Act 9:21 is jesus being prayed to? All who heard him were amazed and said, “Is not this he who killed those who called on... } – Dec 09, 10:06 PM
  • User AvatarChris. { Nah. Bible- One God Father. You - One God father Son holy spirit. Show me that one. Hmmm. Ducking out not at all. Becasue I... } – Dec 09, 10:05 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Again. You're here to argue. Insecure un your beliefs huh. Jesus is the Son of Jehovah. Not Jehovah the son. 😂😂 } – Dec 09, 10:03 PM
  • User AvatarChris { I said im not going to argue with. I did this for years. It get nowhere. It seems your goal (being very unchristian) is to... } – Dec 09, 10:03 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Your'e done with the same tired old arguments? Well you are done before you even addressed mine. But if you want to use that as... } – Dec 09, 9:58 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Wow. The link you supplied points out that Jesus is referred to as the Son of God. You've opened my eyes. Pshhh. Easily refuted. He... } – Dec 09, 9:51 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { You've heard it before but didn't (because you couldn't) refute the evidence I supplied. You affirm that Divine nature is Deity and add, "This same... } – Dec 09, 9:45 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Marc Read the following site for a grammatical refutation in this. I hope God opens your eyes to the errors. Have a great night. Done... } – Dec 09, 9:44 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Wow. John 20:28. I've never seen that before. You've opened my eyes. Pshhh. Easily refute. Thomas wasn't calling him almighty god becasue just before jesus... } – Dec 09, 9:39 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Then I guess that makes Moses and Abraham and Angels God because they are also called God. Hmmmm } – Dec 09, 9:37 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Again superficial arguement. I've heard it before. Good night. You can believe what you want. But until God removes all errors that these christendom systems... } – Dec 09, 9:35 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { No one else but the true God is to be referred to as "my God". Big difference. See John 20:28. } – Dec 09, 9:30 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { To properly receive latreuō goes far beyond possessing a "divine nature." It is properly rendered unto Hm because He is God. 1 Corinthians 8:6 also... } – Dec 09, 9:27 PM
  • User AvatarChris J { Abraham is called God. Angels are called God. Moses was said to be a God to pharaoh. Are they Jehovah as well? It seems you've... } – Dec 09, 9:19 PM
  • User AvatarChris J { I've heard all these generic arguments. They are not your own. So if you want to believe in the fake doctrine of the trinity go... } – Dec 09, 9:17 PM
  • User AvatarChris J { Marc, Again. Jesus was raised to the DIVINE NATURE. He was not a divine being before his birth. So he is worthy of honor glory... } – Dec 09, 9:15 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { This is another proof that the Lord Jesus is God. He is the proper recipient of sacred service (latreuō) in Revelation 7:10 (cf. v. 15)... } – Dec 09, 8:08 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Certain title can be given to others but worship is never to be rendered unto others. Not only did I cite from the Old Testament... } – Dec 09, 7:46 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Chris, 1. Thomas still referred to Jesus as "my God" which was always to be done to the true God. A strict monotheistic Jew would... } – Dec 09, 7:40 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Marc I posted an in depth reply at the end. You can't bring up Old Testament passages and then couple them WITH NT passages and... } – Dec 09, 7:37 PM
  • User AvatarChris J { Marc, Jesus was raised to the Divine nature. That's why he's called God ONLY after his ressurection. We will also be raised to the Divine... } – Dec 09, 7:26 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Marc Marc, None of what you said proved the trinity. 1. John 20:28 was said to Jesus becasue jesus was raised to the Divine nature.... } – Dec 09, 7:22 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Christians are all one in God. But Christians are not to pray to other Christians because they are not God. Christians can pray to Jesus... } – Dec 09, 7:10 PM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { Yes Marc,but you & your wife are different persons,You become one in purpose,Harmony, when you are married,but still two seperate persons.Thus when Jesus said I... } – Dec 09, 7:04 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hello Richard, I agree that the Son is not the Father. I never asserted otherwise. I am greater in my position as husband to my... } – Dec 09, 6:18 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { Hi Chris, I never use 1 Timothy 3:16 and 1 John 5:7 (as found in the KJV) in support of the Trinity. In terms of... } – Dec 09, 5:55 PM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { Hello Mark,We will have to agree to disagree! No where in the bible is the trinity mentioned.It was a doctrine introduced into the false church... } – Dec 09, 5:38 PM
  • User AvatarChris { Good afternoon Marc, I get why people believe in the Trinity. However, it is not Biblical. For example, the KJV had to add and change... } – Dec 09, 4:56 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { I agree that Paul prays to the Father, but he also teaches that it is proper to pray to the Lord Jesus. If the Lord... } – Dec 09, 3:39 AM
  • »»

83 comments to Latest Comments Digest

  • Gasa

    Sadly you are not really friends of Gods people today, you are convinced your church beliefs are right and you reject that Jesus return is as in the days of Noah. The great crowd survive on earth just as Noah did. The general ressurecTion is as Martha said. On earth. The wt you quote miss quote and the scriptures you use relate to Christs brothers joining him in heaven as part of the 144000 bride as the are spiritual Israelites new branches, they are clean spiritual virgins and are the stones that make up spiritual Jerusalem, the cities rules comes down to guide those whom it serves on earth..
    Your purpose is dishonest because you claim to be friends but you are Christians who won’t let go of Catholic beliefs and any enclyopedia will tell you the truth about the history of where catholic believes come from including this rejection of the ransom of Christ, only heaven or hell and trinity.
    So I will not contact again.

    • Christopher Johns

      Gaza,
      Thanks for your reply. Question. If all the scriptures I quote are for the heavenly class can you show me where Jesus or any apostle gave instructions to live on earth? If the New Testament is for the anointed then why are you reading them? Jesus never spoke of an earthly group of Christians. I find the WT more like the Catholic Church. They’ve settled that you cannot survive without being a part of their religion. They claim that you can’t understand the Bible without them and that God only favors you and the rest will be destroyed. Sounds very much like the Catholic Church. We believe Jesus has returned already as you do. That the 144,000 will reign in heaven. To me the JW religion is much like Christendom. You both believe that if you don’t obey now then you’re doomed. You’ve also accepted replacement theology in that Israel is cast off forever. Even though bible prophesy shows they would become a nation again.

  • just Stay Sweet and Good

    Jacquline..Lovely…………..He certainly was not afraid of those people like I was! Just up and tell them their wrong!
    I was raised never to “talk back”. But the problem with that is, it still festers and shows up in your personality.
    Since we are to cultivate a loving personality, we also need to be able to give “tough love”, not ignoring people
    but confronting people with their rebellions with full permission to them to confront us with out rebellions.

    I got to do some “talking back” yesterday. I had flyers made about Kendrick, who is on the 15 most
    wanted list of the FBI. I handed them out in Starbucks and other places. Got into some great conversations !!!

    People gave me information I would not have otherwise known about. The Palos Verdes area is a “bedroom”. People
    are very wealthily and self satisfied. I had been preaching door to door in that area since 1965 and absolutely no
    interest is JW’s. One lady said that they have been having all kinds of people just coming to theirs doors asking
    for money, or tools to fix their car, or a warm coat or sleeping bags and tents. The householders are very unnerved by this. I do
    know that the Mormons have quit going door to door because of the householders being so afraid of them. I’m
    sure we can read between the lines here. She took my flyer (which tell of his JW history) and said she would xerox
    it and pass it around the area. When I was exiting JW’s i just blurted out “Jehovah’s Witness have worn out their
    welcome. My family were true Christians BEFORE we associated with the WTBS !!’ I think that was a prophecy.
    It is the sisters that are feed up. Now, I know why they said in one of the broadcasts that there is no such thing as
    a prophetess in this period of time. They are forgetting that they educated us very well on that subject. A prophet
    is just someone who REPEATS what Jehovah God has ALREADY SAID. They can be of any sex. It is the pinnacle
    of humiliation to be brought down by a woman, as we learned in the case of Sisera and Jael.. Barabara Anderson
    is truly our modern day Hulda. All Hulda said was “You boys can’t do that” when she referred them the law of God
    they had been ignoring. Your exposing of the people in your area was really shocking to me. I had no idea
    that anything really went on in the org. I do believe that these people should be confronted even today. It is an act of love.

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    Just stay sweet and good, Sis Bonnie Interisano finished her course, she as all knew was with our online study group and opened up our phone conference every Wednesday. She would speak with many before the study and talk on the phone with those who had questions.
    Br. Kandel found the Obit on her father and it is interesting.

    “Br.Carl was associated with Jehovah’s Witnesses for about 10 years then left over disagreement with their teachings….. He finished his course in 1991.For the next 27 years until his death he associated with the Chicago Bs class.”

    Bonnie told us how her mother had heart disease and couldn’t go door to door but this was a huge issue with the witnesses. So she had a background prior to age 11 of being in the witnesses and was a great help to us on the study.
    What I found interesting is how her father way back in 1961 left the organization. I also can remember so many when I was a child in the 1950 and 1960 that left the organization. There was no internet, some wrote books that we didn’t read or hear about until now. So this is just an ongoing problem with this organization, tyranny.

  • Anonymous

    Jehovah Witness has destroyed my life and the lives of my family. They act so saints ominous in front of others when the are no better than those they reguard as WORLDLY. They have their own little clicks. Money seems to make a difference in how your treated and accepted. They are liars. They are controll freaks, they try to take over and run your life. They are NARCISSIST.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Hi anonymous, I can almost feel your heart bleeding by your brief descriptive and accurate words. I dont know all your details but any one of the thousands on this website could have written the exact words. They, I have to believe are under the direct influence if satan. My reason for saying this is they are like him, destruction of family is what he did in Eden and afterwards. Consider Job becaused Job loved God and God loved him, satan hit his family right off the bat. God must love you too for him to use what he knows works against lovers of Jehovah and Jesus, destroying your family. GOD is listening and governments are moving against that governing body system. Until you get relief you are welcome here with us and you can talk, we will listen and help you.
      What happenned

    • Marjo

      Hello you are right about that money has shown important role if you wanted to make friends with JW’s. All of them weren’t into money, but when it came to young witnesses, their hobbies were expensive and they chose their friens like, whom had enough money to follow them. Some of them drove with BMW’s and Mercedes. Things what they own, show what they are inside.

  • Richard

    Struggle somewhat with “all” being resurrected… there have been, and still are, evil people who existed, and continue to exist in these last days. So when they are resurrected will they return with their violent ways, and will they continue to be a threat to us followers of Christ?

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Richard,

      Ah, yes indeed, an excellent question. Those resurrected will still have the same mind and heart as when they died.

      Though Isaiah 11:6-9 speaks of animals, I conclude that this passage is pictorial of the animalistic tendencies within persons because verse 9 speaks of nothing and no one causing harm or ruin because the earth is filled with the knowledge of Jehovah. I’m thinking it will people, not animals that will have this knowledge (appreciation).

      (from RVIC)

      6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
      7 And the cow and the bear shall feed together; and their young ones shall lie down; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
      8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den.
      9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

      Moreover, one of the many hats Jesus will hear has the title “Prince of Peace,” and surely, if he could quiet the raging sea and wind, and heal the ear of the soldier that Peter cut off, he can certainly use his power to restrain the attempts to harm others.

      There are several discussions on this subject found within the Studies in the Scriptures, such as on page 217 in volume 1, and many other references listed in the Expanded Biblical Comments. I recall reading one expression that made sense with my own experience, and though I can’t locate the exact page and paragraph at the moment, it said that in contrast to how Ecclesiastes 8:11 speaks of the way things are presently, where a person can act in a harmful way with no immediate consequences, and thus no immediate awareness of how that “bad act” is actually harmful to them as well, in the Kingdom, there will be immediate feedback that will “teach” people that they are really only hurting themselves when they try to hurt others.

      -greg

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Richard people sin differently. Jesus came to save sinners. The sick. Some of us without influence would by nature practice good but without a redeemer of Adam we might as well have been bad. Al Capone loved to plant flowers and gave to charities. I wonder what changed him? Greed, bad breaks? This helps me grasp that some very bad sinners had something bad happen to change them. I don’t know if you see what I am saying but Jesus ransomed Adam thus ALL men. We all fall short but differently. A gossiper or liar destroys many lives. Even sending the wrong person to prison and he dies by someone else’s hand. A murderer takes one life. Which is the worse sinner? Sin is sin. They both brings death and redemption pays it’s price for All.

      • greg (Bible Student)

        Jacqueline,

        Your comment inspires me to write a lengthy novel on my learnings that mirror and evidence the same conclusions as you make.

        Put simply, we are all, each and every one of us made in God’s image. And all God’s works are perfect–even in that they can become damaged. God’s qualities are thus imbued in us from even before we are conceived. And our unbroken nature tends towards compassion and love and giving.

        It is our environment, our cultural programming, and the evil things that have happened to us that damage some of us so severely that we begin to imagine it as impossible to meet our own needs without ignoring (and often trampling on) the needs of another. When this happens in a person, they become broken–not evil. They may DO evil henceforth, but they are broken, disconnected from life.

        It is an extremely rare thing to find someone truly evil. I can think of only one or two names that MIGHT possibly be considered “evil”, but even with these one’s, I cannot help but wonder, what HAPPENED to them?

        In my experience, people do well IF THEY CAN. People WANT to do well. People STRIVE to learn, and grow, and improve–IF THEY CAN. I see The Peaceful Kingdom providing all the healing and nurturing conditions conducive for all people to do well.

        I have seen so much evidence of this in my own experience. And I know of many other noteable names that have expressed similar experiences.

        True, not everyone is able to see the world this way–at least not at first. But that seems to me to be precisely part of the machine (Satan’s design) that creates such enemy images of persons in the first place. And then it’s only a small step to the side to start behaving in ways considered evil.

        I’d really like to quote two people that greatly influenced my life, learning, and growth over the years.

        Carl Rogers wrote in his book “On Becoming a Person” (pages 26, 27):

        (begin quote)
        There is one deep learning which is perhaps basic to all of the things I have said thus far. It has been forced upon me by more than twenty-five years of trying to be helpful to individuals in personal distress. It is simply this. It has been my experience that persons have a basically positive direction. In my deepest contacts with individuals in therapy, even those whose troubles are most disturbing, whose behavior has been most anti-social, whose feelings seem most abnormal, I find this to be true. When I can sensitively understand the feelings which they are expressing, when I am able to accept them as separate persons in their own right, then I find that they tend to move in certain directions. And what are these directions in which they tend to move? The words which I believe are most truly descriptive are words such as positive, constructive, moving toward self-actualization, growing toward maturity, growing toward socialization. I have come to feel that the more fully the individual is understood and accepted, the more he tends to drop the false fronts with which he has been meeting life, and the more he tends to move in a direction which is forward.

        I would not want to be misunderstood on this. I do not have a Pollyanna view of human nature. I am quite aware that out of defensiveness and inner fear individuals can and do behave in ways which are incredibly cruel, horribly destructive, immature, regressive, anti-social, hurtful. Yet one of the most refreshing and invigorating parts of my experience is to work with such individuals and to discover the strongly positive directional tendencies which exist in them, as in all of us, at the deepest levels.
        (end quote)

        Marshall Rosenberg wrote in his book “Nonviolent Communication – A Language of Life” (page 162):

        (begin quote)
        The assumption behind the protective use of force is that people behave in ways injurious to themselves and others due to some form of ignorance. The corrective process is therefore one of education, not punishment. Ignorance includes (a) a lack of awareness of the consequences of our actions, (b) an inability to see how our needs may be met without injury to others, (c) the belief that we have the “right” to punish or hurt others because they “deserve” it, and (d) delusional thinking that involves, for example, hearing a “voice” that instructs us to kill someone.

        Punitive action, on the other hand, is based on the assumption that people commit offenses because they are bad or evil, and to correct the situation, they need to be made to repent. Their “correction” is undertaken through punitive action designed to make them (1) suffer enough to see the error of their ways, (2) repent, and (3) change. In practice, however, punitive action, rather than evoking repentance and learning, is just as likely to generate resentment and hostility and to reinforce resistance to the very behavior we are seeking.
        (end quote)

        I can affirm without reservation, that both these expressions have been equally true (and equally surprising at first) in my experience also. And yes, I echo Carl when I admit truthfully that this view was rather “forced upon me” by my own experience as well.

        Did I mention how much I enjoyed Br. Rick Suraci’s discourse “A boy and His Uncle” from this year’s convention?

        “Small Steps. Read Pages. Chickens can’t burp.”

        -greg

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Greg, I think Jehovah knows this about human nature that even the evilest person can change and many will. Some will change and when satan is loosed, they will with full knowledge choose as he did to go against God. But when we hear what happened in youth to some of the molesters we will have compassion and help them heal as well as their victims. This is a job ahead of us all as we learn from Christ. I can’t judge a person now because like you I have heard of some of the vile things done to children who are now adults on my table telling the story.
          While we are talking, let me hit a controversial subject that ignited a storm on facebook with many a “Christian”. It is the Gay community and I will tell only one story that totally shook me to my core.
          Late one night it was snowing hard and we were advised by the DOT not to shut down our shops until the truck drivers got off the highways and were okay. (My business was at flying J service center at crossroads of America., Dr. haircuts etc)
          A person walked in and I wasn’t sure how to address them but proceeded without saying he or she.
          When I had the person flat on their back with hairline showing and all (I am also a licensed cosmetologist) I knew this was a she. the cheekbones, neck gorgeous hair and we talked about the same things and loved it.
          This person cried and said I like you, you are so kind to me. He said what do you think my gender is? I said beyond a shadow of a doubt you are female but yet I also see male in a strange way, plus your dress is distinctly male. So I said do you want to talk about it? Yes. The story and my exam and observation convinced me that there is some hormonal mixup in the womb, maybe because of chemicals in our food, our additive air but this was my second person that I can attest they are neither male nor female but somewhere in between. The other person was a witness brother that choose the male gender because the society GB) said he should try to chose one and stick to it. This person and I became friends that night and I told him about the kingdom and how the suffering would end and all mankind would be made whole. She dressed as a male to be able to fight and keep peace near her. He was both but he was a female. I am not talking about your promiscuous individuals having a good time but there is something wrong with the gene pool now. I have seen many case files on this.
          That is why I don’t be judging people. I have to leave that up to God and just do what he told us to do, preach, teach and baptize in the name of the Father and Son.
          All judging has been put into his hands. I just feel sorry for the people who as a child was hardened and turned into an animal. Just had to get that out there. We have a diverse audience.

          • greg (Bible Student)

            Jacqueline, and all others who might be reading,

            Thank you so very sincerely for sharing this with all of us.

            This story touches me so deeply, so profoundly. I cannot say in words how thankful I am to you for sharing it. Now I don’t have to try and share similar stories from my encounters with persons who have been unfairly judged, condemned, shunned, and mistreated over the years. I really do weep tears for the secret shames, the hidden fears, the loss of anything resembling normality, and the traumatic fallout that so many persons who have been broken and damaged face and endure every day. For those who manage to endure, I hope and pray they also manage to find moments of relief, and possibly even joy. For those who make their own relief because they cannot endure any longer, I long for the day I can welcome them back and support them as they work to heal and recover their dignity, their humanity, their hopes, and their lost opportunities.

            Won’t it be wonderful to meet and discover the person they could have been, the person God actually intended for them to be able to grow to be?

            -greg

    • Richard Tazzyman

      Hello Richard,The comments given to you are all very worthwhile.The other thing we need to consider is that Satan & his wicked angels have been bound for a thousand years,Christ is in controll for a thousand years.So Satan has no more influence over Mankind during this time!And the Mighty God( Not the Almighty,Jehovah)Jesus will have the power,Influence to controll mankind,Remember the Scriptures tell Us that they will not cause any Harm in my holy mountain,& if we ask why,the answer is “Because the earth will cetainly be filled with the Knoweldge of Jehovah”!

    • just Stay Sweet and Good

      Richard………Evil people continue to be evil because the system rewards them in some way. Evil is like a pile of shit. Don’t mess with it. It will just dry up and be blown away if left isolated. Havent you notice that when you don’t support evil people then just don’t really want your company anymore? Hitler never killed anybody he just talked others into it. Our influence right now is very effective (Col 1:27) and will be the only influence in the kingdom. An evil person won’t even have a chance of a “ice cube in hell” to survive. Just the fact that they were dead and were resurrected will be enough to humble most people. Of, course, there will be a small amount of hard heads that will have to be given up on. The most evil person you ever met in your life were at one time a little child, with no record against them other than the fact that we are all born with a spirit of entitlement. If we were blessed with good parents who knew how to nip that in the bud we were that much better off than those who were just left to wander like wild indians with no set course. Satan in a god who wins by default, when there is no correction and holding to the law. In the 1,000 years the law will be enforced to the point of being verry irritating to those who refuses to circumcise their hearts. God is not to be mocked.

  • Prodigal

    Anonymous CJ, Thank you for your feed back. But I’m not clear where we are disagree, so help me here, let me analysis your comments.

    We are not disagree, that there is a sin against the Holy spirit. Are we?

    We not disagreeing about Jesus aplication of his ransome sacrifice, (whats covered and whats not covered). Are we?

    But I’m confused; What make you think that I’m not in agreement or disagreeing with your comments.

    I never stated that; “only the anointed poseses the Holy spirit” I quoted the scriptures and what Jesus said on the matter. I just presented my compilation of the scriptures. No opinions!

    I don’t know what scriptural basis you have for this comment: “Only the anointed possess the Holy Spirit therefore only they can sin against it. To sin against the Holy Spirit entails having the Holy sprint, knowing the absolute truth, then willfully rejecting it”. But I will entertain your scriptual findings.

    But please point out your disagreement?

    From the congregation of Ephesus

  • Prodigal

    Prodigal,

    Matt. 26:24 woe to that man through whom the son of man is betrayed, it would have been better for that man if he had not been born, Why?

    This is Jesus’s conclusion, explaining it to Pontius Pilate, about His sacrifice and what is true,
    John 18:37b everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.

    The law prescribe,
    Deuteronomy 27:25 “cursed is the one who accept a bribe to kill an innocent person” … Amen!

    John 19:11b this is why the man who handed me over to you have “greater sin”

    Jesus Himself said in Matthew 12:31, 32 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.” vs 32; For example whoever speaks a word against the son of man it will be forgiven him but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit it will not be forgiven him, No! not in this system of things nor in that to come.

    Jesus explaining to the scribe, “The unforgivable sin”, and elaborate on this point.
    Mark 3:28,29 truly I say to you that all things will be forgiven the sons of men no matter what the sin they commit and what blaspheming they speak but whoever blaspheme against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness for ever but it’s guilty of everlasting sin.

    In another passage, Jesus talking to his Holy Father in a prayer,
    Jn 17:12 when I was with them I used to watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me and I have protected them and not one of them is destroyed except the son of Destruction, “so that the scriptures might be fulfilled”.

    Who is the son of Destruction (mentioned by Jesus) so the scriptures may be fulfilled? “Whoever blaspheme against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness for ever but it’s guilty of everlasting sin”.

    There are three known, scriptural sinners, that have sin against the Holy Spirit and is mention in the Bible;

    Judas Iscariot is the first, please call to mind that this particular sin was foretold or prophesied.

    Let me try to use a more modern approach, some of us who have a life policy, known as life insurance policy to protect or cover our benefactors. However all insurance policies have limitations. So those, Jesus ransom sacrifice it’s like a life policy, it has what’s covered and what’s not covered on the policy, technically known as inclusions and exclusions.

    Jesus’s live policy; also has inclusion and exclusion, Truly I say to you… Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness for ever!

    • Anonymous CJ

      Prodigal.,
      Thank you for your comment. However we must disagree. The only unforgivable sin is sin against the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:28-30). Only the anointed possess the Holy Spirit therefore only they can sin against it. To sin against the Holy Spirit entails having the Holy sprint, knowing the absolute truth, then willfully rejecting it. The world of mankind doesn’t not have the Holy Spirit to sin against. Let’s take an example. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe they Sodom will not be resurrected. However lets take a look at what the Bible has to say.

      “Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.” – Matthew 10:15

      If Sodom is not to be ressurected please explain what will be more bearable for them in a day of Judgement that they will not be in!!!!!

      The Bible guarantees a resurrection for everyone.
      “As in Adam all are dying as so in the Christ ask shall be made alive.”
      1 Cor 15:22

      We are currently in the Gospel Age (Christian portion of this system of things) which opened when Christ came and will be open until the 144,000 is complete. Nowhere does the Bible show that anyone other than the spirit anointed can go into second death. The world of mankind cannot blaspheme against what they do not have. The only time the world of mankind will go into second death is at the end of the 1000 years when Satan is let out.

  • greg (Bible Student)

    Hi Peter and/or Jacqueline.

    I tried to reply to this twice now and neither instance showed up. Did I perhaps trigger the spam filters again?

    If my reply attempts can be still retrieved, can you post only the second one, please? I tweaked it a bit more while I was waiting to see if the first attempt showed up.

    Thanks so much.
    -greg

  • greg (Bible Student)

    (Something unexpected happened when I clicked “Post Comment” so I hope this doesn’t show up twice, despite the fact that I checked and waited to see if it actually went through the after first attempt.)

    Hi Lee Anthony.

    I, too, have puzzled over this passage.

    I don’t have a detailed scriptural “proof” I can give you. What I can offer you is my “current understanding.”

    Brother Russell seems to have indicated his belief that Judas would probably not have any hope of a resurrection. He says, “[Judas] sinned against great light; there is no hope for him in a future life.” And yet he also says, “But if God has anything for Judas in the future, you will not find me making any objection.” You can read and research more about that here: http://www.htdb.net/EBC2/EBC40.htm#26:24

    I highly esteem and respect Brother Russell and I also treasure all his expressions, and so I would never dare to think myself more learned than him. Yet, in this case I find that I do remain somewhat unconvinced that it’s totally inconceivable that Judas could return in the resurrection. I fully trust that if I could sit and converse with Brother Russell on the subject we would both enjoy the stimulating conversation, and both be enriched for it. Whether or not we would eventually come to share the same conclusions, I cannot say.

    Perhaps my uncertainty is simply because I haven’t done sufficient research into the matter. Yet, in my mind I cannot yet dismiss some very strong arguments I have about the notion. I might be persuaded to share my nagging internal arguments here, but for now, I want to simply address what I believe to be your question.

    If Judas is not to be resurrected, then he is one of a very tiny handful of persons who will not be coming back. (Are there as of yet any others who will not return? Hmmm… What a discussion these questions might inspire!) But assuming Judas will not be resurrected, then in that sense, yes, it would have been better if he had died before he had persisted so long in his course that he came to be viewed by God as incorrigible. Had he died before being born, there would still be hope that his life course and choices could have had a different outcome.

    But what if Judas is resurrected? How could that be considered so terrible that it would be better for him that he had not been born? Well, I just imagine how terrible I would feel if it was me in Judas’ shoes. I mean, think of it: How could I ever live with myself knowing that I helped kill God’s son? That I betrayed someone who called me to be his friend and disciple? And for what? 30 pieces of silver? And that I lost out on a chance to reign as a king and priest alongside Jesus in heaven? And how could I face other people who all knew it was me? Oh! the shame! The humiliation! The LOSS! The Grief! The regrets!

    And surely it would seem so hopeless and full of relentless despair that I too would rush to kill myself to end the pain of living with myself. (I know and say this because I actually did spent several decades of my life wanting to kill myself, and that mostly for sins merely perceived, and of those sins that were indeed fact being so comparatively insignificant as what Judas did.)

    So regardless of whether or not Judas is resurrected, either way, to have not have been born or to not have even existed would in many ways seem preferable to enduring the painful awareness or regrets and crushing weight of several very grave sins. To have died after a brief and virtually unknown existence would be preferable to a life filled with the knowledge and awareness of how one’s actions did not serve life.

    Regardless of whether or not Judas comes back, I find great peace in that I trust fully that God is just, and righteous. As Abraham said in Genesis 18:25, “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” And so even though I remain undecided and unconvinced either way, I find I can accept and even enjoy that relatively small (it’s small to me, anyways) measure of uncertainty. I accept that I do not KNOW for sure, and I don’t find that I absolutely MUST KNOW. Rather, I find myself in total agreement with the words that Brother Russell said, “But if God has anything for Judas in the future, you will not find me making any objection.”

    How does this sit for you, Lee?
    -greg

  • Lee Anthony

    Hello,
    I have a question about a verse I was just reading (that I have never heard an explanation of) and i have never really thought about before… In (matt. 26:24) Jesus says “woe to the man who betrays the son of man it would be better for him if he had not been born” What is Jesus saying about Judas and it being better not to be born?? It almost seems that he was talking about the way of death cause in 1st part of verse it says “son of man will go just as it is written” yet i thought that somewhere it says jesus was to suffer more than anyone else…Any thoughts?

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Lee Anthony: Thank you for a very interesting question. Let’s take a look at the verse you are citing.

      Matthew 26:24 (NKJV)”The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

      Okay. So Jesus says it is better if Judas had never been born. Never existed? No. A stillborn child / miscarriage is a child that existed it the womb, but never left the womb alive. In that case, Judas could have been resurrected in the Kingdom with a clean slate and a full opportunity for life.

      Job describes the condition of both the child that dies at birth and also the stillborn child who dies in the womb. In both cases, they are said to be sleeping in death with the great people who died before them. These too will be resurrected to the paradise earth kingdom in the future.

      Job 3:11-19 (ESV) “11 Why did I not die at birth,
      come out from the womb and expire?
      12 Why did the knees receive me?
      Or why the breasts, that I should nurse?
      13 For then I would have lain down and been quiet;
      I would have slept; then I would have been at rest,
      14 with kings and counselors of the earth
      who rebuilt ruins for themselves,
      15 or with princes who had gold,
      who filled their houses with silver.
      16 Or why was I not as a hidden stillborn child,
      as infants who never see the light?
      17 There the wicked cease from troubling,
      and there the weary are at rest.
      18 There the prisoners are at ease together;
      they hear not the voice of the taskmaster.
      19 The small and the great are there,
      and the slave is free from his master.”

      We would love to here more from you on this or any other topic.

      • Lee Anthony

        Peter K.
        Thanks for response. Still a little confused on Judas… Is the implication then that he will still have a resurrection? (John 5:28) does say all in the graves will rise so this does of course make sense..

        • greg (Bible Student)

          Hi Lee Anthony.

          I, too, have puzzled over this passage.

          I don’t have a detailed scriptural “proof” I can give you. What I can offer you is my “current understanding.”

          Brother Russell indicated his belief that Judas would not have any hope of a resurrection. You can read and research more about that here: http://www.htdb.net/EBC2/EBC40.htm#26:24

          I highly esteem and respect Brother Russell and I also treasure all his expressions, and so I would never dare to think myself more learned than him. Yet, in this case I find that I do remain somewhat unconvinced that it’s totally inconceivable that Judas could return in the resurrection. I fully trust that if I could sit and converse with Brother Russell on the subject we would both enjoy the stimulating conversation, and both be enriched for it. Whether or not we would eventually come to share the same conclusions, I cannot say.

          Perhaps my uncertainty is simply because I haven’t done sufficient research into the matter. Yet, in my mind I cannot yet dismiss some very strong arguments I have about the notion. I might be persuaded to share my nagging internal arguments here, but for now, I want to simply address what I believe to be your question.

          If Judas is not to be resurrected, then he is one of a very tiny handful of persons who will not be coming back. (Are there as of yet any others who will not return? Hmmm… What a discussion these questions might inspire!) But assuming Judas will not be resurrected, then in that sense, yes, it would have been better if he had died before he had persisted so long in his course that he came to be viewed by God as incorrigible. Had he died before being born, there would still be hope that his life course and choices could have had a different outcome.

          But what if Judas is resurrected? How could that be considered so terrible that it would be better for him that he had not been born? Well, I just imagine how terrible I would feel if it was me in Judas’ shoes. I mean, think of it: How could I ever live with myself knowing that I helped kill God’s son? That I betrayed someone who called me to be his friend and disciple? And for what? 30 pieces of silver? And that I lost out on a chance to reign as a king and priest alongside Jesus in heaven? And how could I face other people who all knew it was me? Oh! the shame! The humiliation! The LOSS! The Grief! The regrets!

          And surely it would seem so hopeless and full of relentless despair that I too would rush to kill myself to end the pain of living with myself. (I know and say this because I actually did spent several decades of my life wanting to kill myself, and that mostly for sins merely perceived, and of those sins that were indeed fact being so comparatively insignificant as what Judas did.)

          So regardless of whether or not Judas is resurrected, either way, to have not have been born or to not have even existed would in many ways seem preferable to enduring the painful awareness or regrets and crushing weight of several very grave sins. To have died after a brief and virtually unknown existence would be preferable to a life filled with the knowledge and awareness of how one’s actions did not serve life.

          Regardless of whether or not Judas comes back, I find great peace in that I trust fully that God is just, and righteous. As Abraham said in Genesis 18:25, “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” And so even though I remain unconvinced either way, I find I can accept and even enjoy that relatively small (it’s small to me, anyways) measure of uncertainty.

          How does this sit for you, Lee?
          -greg

        • Peter K. (admin)

          Lee Anthony – Greg’s reply helps to illustrate that Bible Students are not united on whether or not Judas will come back in the resurrected. One point of view is that Judas was a special case and a special exception to the Ransom since he had such a close relationship directly with Jesus for 3 1/2 years. If Judas is resurrected he will have to face all mankind in shame and demonstrate real repentance. You can find a debate on the question of whether Judas died the second death here:

          http://bibleresources.info/audio-hymns/audio-sermons/
          Search for the topic below:
          Did Judas Die the Second Death?
          Bill Dutka & Michael Nekora – General Convention 2007

          • Lee Anthony

            Peter and Greg,
            Thanks for insight. This is enough to satisfy my curiosities about the subject, I really have noone to discuss such things with in detail, a jw would just pull up a wt article as an explanation. I find that I dont need an explaination of everything in black and white since that knowledge specifically will not lead me unto life, I believe only Jesus can do that. (john 14:6) However, I will certainly listen to the debate on the matter. Thanks for the link. Study of the scriptures and discussion of that with others is a nice relief from the normal ( we know all attitude of the kingdom hall meetings). Thanks.

            • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

              Lee Anthony hello, I believe Jesus died for all fallen man including his betrayed on that night. They killed him not Judas. The decision was made in Genesis that it was between Satan and her seed not Judas.
              His death before Christ was a loss of being a foundation floor for the kingdom, one of the twelve.
              Could it be Jesus uttered a prophecy about his attitude in the Millennium maybe by saying son of destruction?
              I don’t know but I have faith God will be just for many did much more to our Lord than Judas. Lots could identify Jesus if they had waited until day for he preached openly. I think there is something deeper maybe about Judas as God knows the End to the Beginning on who we will be by choice. Just my two cents worth.

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