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Latest Comments Digest

100 latest comments from our from all posts articles on our site, newest at the top
(Click on the Date link at the end of each entry to see the entire comment)

  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { "Take me the first time , shame on you. Take me twice, shame on me" http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4782-crucifixion } – Sep 23, 11:15 AM
  • User Avatartraveler { Anointed talk *** it-1 pp. 520-521 Covenant *** An agreement between two or more persons to do or refrain from doing some act; a compact;... } – Sep 23, 10:17 AM
  • User AvatarAnon CJ { Good evening. Yes I’ve seen the video. This is from last years convention. As we know the past two years conventions aim at keeping members... } – Sep 22, 8:50 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Thank you for posting. This is the video that got every witness in an uproar this summer and caused me problems with my heart, which... } – Sep 22, 8:35 PM
  • User Avatarexile { Is your family referring to any talks or videos? I attend meeting on a semi-regular basis and made it a point to attend last night... } – Sep 22, 5:35 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Dear Friends, current witnesses actually attending the kingdom hall. We need your help. There is great controversy coming in from family that are witnesses on... } – Sep 22, 1:25 PM
  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { traveler, Get a hold of the JW's book "Holy Spirit the power behind the New Order" You will notice that it was teaching that the... } – Sep 21, 4:04 PM
  • User Avatartraveler { Thanks Peter, we are out of town today but will contribute on the questions you've just asked on another day. Thank you also Greg. As... } – Sep 21, 11:28 AM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Hi Kevin, Welcome. Would you share your story with us here. Many are encouraged when they see the path others took to get free. I... } – Sep 21, 10:58 AM
  • User AvatarKevin Anthony { I absolutely agree with everything written in that list. I would add that the fact Israel has physically returned to their homeland was a real... } – Sep 21, 6:46 AM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Yes, I made one, Uhm, I can't seem to find your email address at the moment. 🙂 Here's a link to the file (21 MB)... } – Sep 21, 12:01 AM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Yes, and thank you. We talked on the phone yesterday. / Yay!! 🙂 -greg } – Sep 20, 11:50 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Greg did you get a reply back from Br. Peter? Yes we both were in Columbus at the convention. I just got home today because... } – Sep 20, 6:46 PM
  • User AvatarZionsHerald { Greg, Are you able to get an MP3 made? I can post it once you do that. Just send to my email address at Gmail. } – Sep 20, 5:49 PM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { traveler, Greetings. Perhaps you will permit me to express myself on something I perceive to be possibly causing some confusion: As briefly as I can... } – Sep 19, 1:40 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { traveler - No need to apologize. I am not trying to shut you down. None of your comments have been deleted. When I see someone's... } – Sep 19, 12:11 PM
  • User Avatartraveler { "It only seems to make sense that elders and leaders in the JW organization would desire, in humility, to look to the anointed for spiritual... } – Sep 19, 11:33 AM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Dear Jacqueline, I responded to a message from Br. Peter (regarding our discussion), but he messaged me to say he hadn't heard back from me.... } – Sep 19, 11:32 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { traveler - Again, you are ignoring the scriptures in the article and your comments are on a different topic. I will respond to your comments... } – Sep 19, 9:46 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { traveler - You have preached quite excessively on this site in a very short period of time. That is not the purpose of this website.... } – Sep 19, 9:33 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { traveler - We require discussions on this website to be two way discussions, not simply preaching. You have totally ignored the scriptural evidence for a... } – Sep 19, 9:25 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { traveler - Thanks for your response. However as Admin, I must insist that if you want to debate, you must consider and respond to arguments... } – Sep 19, 8:54 AM
  • User Avatartraveler { "Please enlighten us and tell us the truth of what is happening" Sorry if this is not the right place to post this. I'm new... } – Sep 18, 12:10 PM
  • User AvatarBeulah { About the comment made of isaiah 60. You are right. It isis a kingdom. Nations will come to ur light is referring to the woman.... } – Sep 18, 6:02 AM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Nycole, I am so happy this had an acceptable ending. I think you were right in hitting it early on in your journey instead of... } – Sep 16, 7:22 AM
  • User Avatartraveler { Old covenant, new covenant. The JW's in general believe that the only way to be an adopted son is to receive the spirit that allows... } – Sep 15, 2:30 PM
  • User AvatarNycole { I am so thankful to the Lord. I decided to consecrate my life to the Lord and I wasn't sure if this decision would cause... } – Sep 15, 11:56 AM
  • User Avatartraveler { Here's part of a letter on identity and resurrection in relation to identity that we wrote to the JW organization after having established this as... } – Sep 15, 11:43 AM
  • User Avatartraveler { Hi Peter, the promises and covenants were all related to only the "True Jews". To understand this you first must realize that everything has to... } – Sep 15, 11:18 AM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { ZionsHerald, Yes, even an mp3 would be wonderful. I had considered making an mp3 of it myself. Did you want to do it? Or shall... } – Sep 14, 1:09 PM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Thanks Peter. Got it. And thanks also for the copious amount of work I can imagine you put into it. Sincerely, -greg } – Sep 14, 1:05 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Traveler - Bible Students agree with you that the "New Creation" are spiritual Israelite's. Some Bible promises are to spiritual Israel and some to natural... } – Sep 14, 12:53 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { traveler - Thanks for sharing on our site. It is okay for us to disagree as long as we accept the scriptures as the supreme... } – Sep 14, 12:42 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Greg, I just emailed you the PowerPoint from my Gmail account. It links to Google Drive for you to download. Peter K. } – Sep 14, 12:33 PM
  • User Avatartraveler { I've been reading the comments, and it occurred to me that the contributors need to have the realization that there is no provision in the... } – Sep 14, 11:50 AM
  • User Avatartraveler { Here's a thought. Be patient. This has to do with "who really is, not was a Jew" But Who really is a Jew? (Romans 2:29)... } – Sep 14, 11:41 AM
  • User AvatarZionsHerald { Greg, With Adobe Connect it might be a bit difficult to create a downloadable link. I'll be with Br. Peter and some other techs this... } – Sep 14, 8:39 AM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Can someone please confirm: Was there at one time also a downloadable link to this video (for offline viewing)? And is there any chance that... } – Sep 14, 7:23 AM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Just stay sweet, I really remembered your moniker before replying to my relative. I am going to send the conversation out in email. I missed... } – Sep 11, 8:31 PM
  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { A good question to ask them when they come "shepherding" is: "If I totally refuse to pledge allegiance "to the flag and the republic for... } – Sep 11, 5:29 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Hi everybody, if you are receiving the visits first by 2 elders, then the next day by 2 regular pioneers tell us about your experience... } – Sep 11, 10:53 AM
  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { Nobody has had to give up their life prematurely because they are interested in stone a building in Egypt! } – Sep 09, 10:58 AM
  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { Dieter...I take exception to your #4 statement. All governments up until the communist revolt against Russia were religiously orientated and claimed their authority as their... } – Sep 01, 5:16 PM
  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { Every active JW has this in their file at the Kingdom Hall https://m.imgur.com/a/HHuwN In a crises, If they can’t speak the HLC will enforce their... } – Sep 01, 2:01 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { I found this on jwfacts, a nice read. https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/blog/russell-not-a-freemason.php } – Aug 29, 3:39 PM
  • User AvatarJust stay sweet and good { I have one point that you may or may not know about concerning 2 John 7. The correct translation of that word er kho me... } – Aug 28, 9:13 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { This was sent by Una. Apparently some thought the witnesses not voting caused them to lose the election. Hopefully these poor brothers and sisters recover.... } – Aug 27, 10:09 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Brandon so sorry to hear of your sorrow. Your are a good man and your Mom will benefit from having you with her. Here is... } – Aug 27, 12:28 PM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Brandon, Prayers, yes! I pray that the spirit of God and Christ will comfort and guide each one of you. The situation sounds very messy,... } – Aug 27, 9:14 AM
  • User AvatarTedR { Hi Brother My sincere sympathies. I will be sure to pray for you and your family. Feel free to call me anytime. Send me a... } – Aug 27, 4:18 AM
  • User AvatarLee Anthony (Brandon) { Hello all, I want to ask for prayer for my family, my aunt, my moms sister, fell asleep in death today after a long fight... } – Aug 26, 9:49 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Relevant only because a witness passing out tracts was one of the victims, but others are attacked as well witnesses weren't singled out. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/multiple-people-stabbed-finnish-city-turku-article-1.3422843 } – Aug 20, 11:28 AM
  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { Peter This is one doctrine that I had totally missed as a JW. Total Depravity. Somehow we were convinced that because we were "good hearted... } – Aug 18, 11:33 PM
  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { Jaqueline, Mankind has always tried to get organized so they can have an advantage over each other, either to hold power, hold land, to manipulate... } – Aug 18, 8:13 PM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { just stay sweet and good, Very nicely put. Thank you. 🙂 Jesus said there was more happiness in giving than in receiving. I've learned that... } – Aug 17, 9:11 AM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Anon-Bro Greetings! To supplement your expressions may I point to Mark 13:14, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31-35, Pages 572-574 in Volume 4 of Studies in the... } – Aug 17, 9:10 AM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Hi Anon- Bro, Welcome and thank you for commenting. Are you fading or still going to the kingdom Hall. Tell us more about your story... } – Aug 16, 10:56 PM
  • User AvatarAnon-Bro { Everything that you will find in the IT Book under "Last Days" "the conclusion of the system of things" IS HAPPENING note the Apostasy that... } – Aug 16, 6:39 PM
  • User Avatarjust stay sweet and good { Greg and Richard, I also have contempltd this question and my conclusion was..........Living your life as most people live it and living as a true... } – Aug 16, 4:12 PM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Chuck, You wrote: "I believe it is when we can admit our failings that we are at peace. I really want to express my agreement... } – Aug 13, 10:31 AM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Lincoln, I and others are following the conversation and this is one comment I agree with. Every religious persuasion today have some error otherwise there... } – Aug 12, 4:44 PM
  • User AvatarChuck { Lincoln, You stated: "What do you think about Christianity and the different denominations?" My answer. Scripture states there is but ONE church. Each denomination has... } – Aug 12, 12:02 PM
  • User AvatarChuck { It seems he is happy with his faith and trying to convince himself he is right. When we are faced with something that goes against... } – Aug 12, 11:54 AM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Dear AnonCJ, I would not way that to you. I would bless you even you do have a faith I don`t know. I am a... } – Aug 12, 11:36 AM
  • User AvatarChuck { Lincoln, I would like to comment here on your discussion with zionsherald. First, we obviously have a different understanding of what divine is. In my... } – Aug 12, 11:36 AM
  • User AvatarAnon CJ { I don't even think he knows what he believes. I would just ignore him at this point. } – Aug 12, 11:27 AM
  • User AvatarAnon CJ { Even after Jesus ressurection when he was Spirit it it said "There is ONE GOD THE FATHER one Lord Jesus Christ." ( 1 Cor 8:6)... } – Aug 12, 11:26 AM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Dear Zionsherald. I would like to comment this one: "This is true of your claim that I and other Bible Students do not believe that... } – Aug 12, 10:44 AM
  • User AvatarZionsberald { Lincoln, I am writing this on my phone this morning as i travel for a visit to the archeology museum in Chicago (Oriental Institute). Since... } – Aug 12, 10:11 AM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Dear Zionsherald, (this is only place I can answer you) I must say you have many good points. Considering Jesus as created and 2. to... } – Aug 12, 12:34 AM
  • User Avatarzionsherald { Richard, If you've got a couple hours to spare (and who doesn't, right?), you might want to watch (or listen) to one of the Christian... } – Aug 11, 3:13 PM
  • User AvatarLee Anthony (Brandon) { Richard, During that time: (Hab 2:14)For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea...... } – Aug 11, 2:12 PM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Richard, I must admit that precise thought once came to visit in my mind and I grappled with it for a very long time. What... } – Aug 11, 9:41 AM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Richard a good question indeed. I have learned that we are in the "Gospel age" that Jesus started and out of it he is taking... } – Aug 11, 9:31 AM
  • User Avatarzionsherald { My response to this -- I would ask them what kind of heart they have? Each person will need to make an account in the... } – Aug 11, 9:29 AM
  • User Avatarzionsherald { Lincoln, Correct, Jesus is not the Father. On this account we both agree. To summarize the first two passages under consideration, the contexts of the... } – Aug 11, 9:18 AM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Dear Zionsherald, (it is difficult to find "reply" to your letters) You write: As stated previously, we know the oneness view suggests the concept that... } – Aug 11, 7:38 AM
  • User Avatarzionsherald { Lincoln, I appreciate that you are trying to explain what you believe. I am not asking you to prove what you believe at all, but... } – Aug 11, 6:29 AM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Dear Zionsherald, As I started out with, I am not able to prove to you, but to tell you how we Christians understand God. I... } – Aug 10, 11:55 PM
  • User AvatarRichard { Was discussing the question with a neighbor about God's kingdom, and that everyone will be given a chance to be saved during the millennium. He... } – Aug 10, 8:59 PM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Jacqueline, and all others who might be reading, Thank you so very sincerely for sharing this with all of us. This story touches me so... } – Aug 10, 8:38 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { George hello and welcome. What part of the article especially caught your attention? } – Aug 10, 2:09 PM
  • User AvatarZionsHerald { Lincoln, You are still responding with the philosophy of men (essence, uncreated, unlimited, etc....). Perhaps I am not being clear enough. I think you're looking... } – Aug 10, 1:26 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Greg, I think Jehovah knows this about human nature that even the evilest person can change and many will. Some will change and when satan... } – Aug 10, 1:02 PM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Ok, Zionsherald, I will answer you. Thank you Zionsherald, The traditional doctrin the trinity renders God the Father and God the Son and God the... } – Aug 10, 12:42 PM
  • User AvatarGeorge Loumbardas { I agree } – Aug 10, 12:34 PM
  • User AvatarZionsHerald { Lincoln, Your comments regarding my 'paraphrase' of John 1:1 contradict each other. Fist you said, “So, when Jesus is said to be (as you write)... } – Aug 10, 11:28 AM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Jacqueline, Your comment inspires me to write a lengthy novel on my learnings that mirror and evidence the same conclusions as you make. Put simply,... } – Aug 10, 9:40 AM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Dear Zionsherald. Thank you for your comments. I will answer your questions. You ask me: ”Do you believe Jesus is the Father”? Answer: No, I... } – Aug 10, 2:41 AM
  • User Avatarzionsherald { "I was wondering: How do these TFJWs get along with Dawn Bible Students in their own countries?" Excellent question Ellis. I can answer that as... } – Aug 09, 6:25 PM
  • User AvatarEllis Green { Hi there, I was wondering: How do these TFJWs get along with Dawn Bible Students in their own countries? Ellis } – Aug 09, 6:01 PM
  • User Avatarzionsherald { Lincoln, you said, "So, when Jesus is said to be (as you write) ”ho theos” to point to Jesus as ”The God” and as you... } – Aug 09, 2:36 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Richard people sin differently. Jesus came to save sinners. The sick. Some of us without influence would by nature practice good but without a redeemer... } – Aug 09, 9:58 AM
  • User Avatargreg (Bible Student) { Richard, Ah, yes indeed, an excellent question. Those resurrected will still have the same mind and heart as when they died. Though Isaiah 11:6-9 speaks... } – Aug 09, 7:52 AM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { I don't believe in an organization but people free to worship the creator on a personal basis. I really like JEHOVAH and Jesus plan to... } – Aug 09, 5:50 AM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Dear Jacqueline, Thank you for letter. You write: "There are some xjw that can’t drop the governing body and have chosen to create a fusion... } – Aug 09, 3:43 AM
  • User AvatarLincoln { Dear Zionsherald. Thank you for letter. I don't think I can ”prove” or explain anything about you question that you can use or Bible Students... } – Aug 09, 3:34 AM
  • User AvatarRichard { Struggle somewhat with "all" being resurrected... there have been, and still are, evil people who existed, and continue to exist in these last days. So... } – Aug 08, 10:18 PM
  • User AvatarJacqueline (Bible Student) { Lincoln, I would not reunite with Jehovah witnesses as I dont share their understanding of scripture nor would I worship their governing body or join... } – Aug 08, 12:21 PM
  • User Avatarzionsherald { Lincoln, Lets try this again. I'm sorry that I'm going to sound a bit harsh, but why do you still post here when you never... } – Aug 08, 8:10 AM
  • »»

68 comments to Latest Comments Digest

  • Richard

    Struggle somewhat with “all” being resurrected… there have been, and still are, evil people who existed, and continue to exist in these last days. So when they are resurrected will they return with their violent ways, and will they continue to be a threat to us followers of Christ?

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Richard,

      Ah, yes indeed, an excellent question. Those resurrected will still have the same mind and heart as when they died.

      Though Isaiah 11:6-9 speaks of animals, I conclude that this passage is pictorial of the animalistic tendencies within persons because verse 9 speaks of nothing and no one causing harm or ruin because the earth is filled with the knowledge of Jehovah. I’m thinking it will people, not animals that will have this knowledge (appreciation).

      (from RVIC)

      6 And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
      7 And the cow and the bear shall feed together; and their young ones shall lie down; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
      8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den.
      9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.

      Moreover, one of the many hats Jesus will hear has the title “Prince of Peace,” and surely, if he could quiet the raging sea and wind, and heal the ear of the soldier that Peter cut off, he can certainly use his power to restrain the attempts to harm others.

      There are several discussions on this subject found within the Studies in the Scriptures, such as on page 217 in volume 1, and many other references listed in the Expanded Biblical Comments. I recall reading one expression that made sense with my own experience, and though I can’t locate the exact page and paragraph at the moment, it said that in contrast to how Ecclesiastes 8:11 speaks of the way things are presently, where a person can act in a harmful way with no immediate consequences, and thus no immediate awareness of how that “bad act” is actually harmful to them as well, in the Kingdom, there will be immediate feedback that will “teach” people that they are really only hurting themselves when they try to hurt others.

      -greg

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Richard people sin differently. Jesus came to save sinners. The sick. Some of us without influence would by nature practice good but without a redeemer of Adam we might as well have been bad. Al Capone loved to plant flowers and gave to charities. I wonder what changed him? Greed, bad breaks? This helps me grasp that some very bad sinners had something bad happen to change them. I don’t know if you see what I am saying but Jesus ransomed Adam thus ALL men. We all fall short but differently. A gossiper or liar destroys many lives. Even sending the wrong person to prison and he dies by someone else’s hand. A murderer takes one life. Which is the worse sinner? Sin is sin. They both brings death and redemption pays it’s price for All.

      • greg (Bible Student)

        Jacqueline,

        Your comment inspires me to write a lengthy novel on my learnings that mirror and evidence the same conclusions as you make.

        Put simply, we are all, each and every one of us made in God’s image. And all God’s works are perfect–even in that they can become damaged. God’s qualities are thus imbued in us from even before we are conceived. And our unbroken nature tends towards compassion and love and giving.

        It is our environment, our cultural programming, and the evil things that have happened to us that damage some of us so severely that we begin to imagine it as impossible to meet our own needs without ignoring (and often trampling on) the needs of another. When this happens in a person, they become broken–not evil. They may DO evil henceforth, but they are broken, disconnected from life.

        It is an extremely rare thing to find someone truly evil. I can think of only one or two names that MIGHT possibly be considered “evil”, but even with these one’s, I cannot help but wonder, what HAPPENED to them?

        In my experience, people do well IF THEY CAN. People WANT to do well. People STRIVE to learn, and grow, and improve–IF THEY CAN. I see The Peaceful Kingdom providing all the healing and nurturing conditions conducive for all people to do well.

        I have seen so much evidence of this in my own experience. And I know of many other noteable names that have expressed similar experiences.

        True, not everyone is able to see the world this way–at least not at first. But that seems to me to be precisely part of the machine (Satan’s design) that creates such enemy images of persons in the first place. And then it’s only a small step to the side to start behaving in ways considered evil.

        I’d really like to quote two people that greatly influenced my life, learning, and growth over the years.

        Carl Rogers wrote in his book “On Becoming a Person” (pages 26, 27):

        (begin quote)
        There is one deep learning which is perhaps basic to all of the things I have said thus far. It has been forced upon me by more than twenty-five years of trying to be helpful to individuals in personal distress. It is simply this. It has been my experience that persons have a basically positive direction. In my deepest contacts with individuals in therapy, even those whose troubles are most disturbing, whose behavior has been most anti-social, whose feelings seem most abnormal, I find this to be true. When I can sensitively understand the feelings which they are expressing, when I am able to accept them as separate persons in their own right, then I find that they tend to move in certain directions. And what are these directions in which they tend to move? The words which I believe are most truly descriptive are words such as positive, constructive, moving toward self-actualization, growing toward maturity, growing toward socialization. I have come to feel that the more fully the individual is understood and accepted, the more he tends to drop the false fronts with which he has been meeting life, and the more he tends to move in a direction which is forward.

        I would not want to be misunderstood on this. I do not have a Pollyanna view of human nature. I am quite aware that out of defensiveness and inner fear individuals can and do behave in ways which are incredibly cruel, horribly destructive, immature, regressive, anti-social, hurtful. Yet one of the most refreshing and invigorating parts of my experience is to work with such individuals and to discover the strongly positive directional tendencies which exist in them, as in all of us, at the deepest levels.
        (end quote)

        Marshall Rosenberg wrote in his book “Nonviolent Communication – A Language of Life” (page 162):

        (begin quote)
        The assumption behind the protective use of force is that people behave in ways injurious to themselves and others due to some form of ignorance. The corrective process is therefore one of education, not punishment. Ignorance includes (a) a lack of awareness of the consequences of our actions, (b) an inability to see how our needs may be met without injury to others, (c) the belief that we have the “right” to punish or hurt others because they “deserve” it, and (d) delusional thinking that involves, for example, hearing a “voice” that instructs us to kill someone.

        Punitive action, on the other hand, is based on the assumption that people commit offenses because they are bad or evil, and to correct the situation, they need to be made to repent. Their “correction” is undertaken through punitive action designed to make them (1) suffer enough to see the error of their ways, (2) repent, and (3) change. In practice, however, punitive action, rather than evoking repentance and learning, is just as likely to generate resentment and hostility and to reinforce resistance to the very behavior we are seeking.
        (end quote)

        I can affirm without reservation, that both these expressions have been equally true (and equally surprising at first) in my experience also. And yes, I echo Carl when I admit truthfully that this view was rather “forced upon me” by my own experience as well.

        Did I mention how much I enjoyed Br. Rick Suraci’s discourse “A boy and His Uncle” from this year’s convention?

        “Small Steps. Read Pages. Chickens can’t burp.”

        -greg

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Greg, I think Jehovah knows this about human nature that even the evilest person can change and many will. Some will change and when satan is loosed, they will with full knowledge choose as he did to go against God. But when we hear what happened in youth to some of the molesters we will have compassion and help them heal as well as their victims. This is a job ahead of us all as we learn from Christ. I can’t judge a person now because like you I have heard of some of the vile things done to children who are now adults on my table telling the story.
          While we are talking, let me hit a controversial subject that ignited a storm on facebook with many a “Christian”. It is the Gay community and I will tell only one story that totally shook me to my core.
          Late one night it was snowing hard and we were advised by the DOT not to shut down our shops until the truck drivers got off the highways and were okay. (My business was at flying J service center at crossroads of America., Dr. haircuts etc)
          A person walked in and I wasn’t sure how to address them but proceeded without saying he or she.
          When I had the person flat on their back with hairline showing and all (I am also a licensed cosmetologist) I knew this was a she. the cheekbones, neck gorgeous hair and we talked about the same things and loved it.
          This person cried and said I like you, you are so kind to me. He said what do you think my gender is? I said beyond a shadow of a doubt you are female but yet I also see male in a strange way, plus your dress is distinctly male. So I said do you want to talk about it? Yes. The story and my exam and observation convinced me that there is some hormonal mixup in the womb, maybe because of chemicals in our food, our additive air but this was my second person that I can attest they are neither male nor female but somewhere in between. The other person was a witness brother that choose the male gender because the society GB) said he should try to chose one and stick to it. This person and I became friends that night and I told him about the kingdom and how the suffering would end and all mankind would be made whole. She dressed as a male to be able to fight and keep peace near her. He was both but he was a female. I am not talking about your promiscuous individuals having a good time but there is something wrong with the gene pool now. I have seen many case files on this.
          That is why I don’t be judging people. I have to leave that up to God and just do what he told us to do, preach, teach and baptize in the name of the Father and Son.
          All judging has been put into his hands. I just feel sorry for the people who as a child was hardened and turned into an animal. Just had to get that out there. We have a diverse audience.

          • greg (Bible Student)

            Jacqueline, and all others who might be reading,

            Thank you so very sincerely for sharing this with all of us.

            This story touches me so deeply, so profoundly. I cannot say in words how thankful I am to you for sharing it. Now I don’t have to try and share similar stories from my encounters with persons who have been unfairly judged, condemned, shunned, and mistreated over the years. I really do weep tears for the secret shames, the hidden fears, the loss of anything resembling normality, and the traumatic fallout that so many persons who have been broken and damaged face and endure every day. For those who manage to endure, I hope and pray they also manage to find moments of relief, and possibly even joy. For those who make their own relief because they cannot endure any longer, I long for the day I can welcome them back and support them as they work to heal and recover their dignity, their humanity, their hopes, and their lost opportunities.

            Won’t it be wonderful to meet and discover the person they could have been, the person God actually intended for them to be able to grow to be?

            -greg

  • Prodigal

    Anonymous CJ, Thank you for your feed back. But I’m not clear where we are disagree, so help me here, let me analysis your comments.

    We are not disagree, that there is a sin against the Holy spirit. Are we?

    We not disagreeing about Jesus aplication of his ransome sacrifice, (whats covered and whats not covered). Are we?

    But I’m confused; What make you think that I’m not in agreement or disagreeing with your comments.

    I never stated that; “only the anointed poseses the Holy spirit” I quoted the scriptures and what Jesus said on the matter. I just presented my compilation of the scriptures. No opinions!

    I don’t know what scriptural basis you have for this comment: “Only the anointed possess the Holy Spirit therefore only they can sin against it. To sin against the Holy Spirit entails having the Holy sprint, knowing the absolute truth, then willfully rejecting it”. But I will entertain your scriptual findings.

    But please point out your disagreement?

    From the congregation of Ephesus

  • Prodigal

    Prodigal,

    Matt. 26:24 woe to that man through whom the son of man is betrayed, it would have been better for that man if he had not been born, Why?

    This is Jesus’s conclusion, explaining it to Pontius Pilate, about His sacrifice and what is true,
    John 18:37b everyone who is on the side of the truth listens to my voice.

    The law prescribe,
    Deuteronomy 27:25 “cursed is the one who accept a bribe to kill an innocent person” … Amen!

    John 19:11b this is why the man who handed me over to you have “greater sin”

    Jesus Himself said in Matthew 12:31, 32 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men.” vs 32; For example whoever speaks a word against the son of man it will be forgiven him but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit it will not be forgiven him, No! not in this system of things nor in that to come.

    Jesus explaining to the scribe, “The unforgivable sin”, and elaborate on this point.
    Mark 3:28,29 truly I say to you that all things will be forgiven the sons of men no matter what the sin they commit and what blaspheming they speak but whoever blaspheme against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness for ever but it’s guilty of everlasting sin.

    In another passage, Jesus talking to his Holy Father in a prayer,
    Jn 17:12 when I was with them I used to watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me and I have protected them and not one of them is destroyed except the son of Destruction, “so that the scriptures might be fulfilled”.

    Who is the son of Destruction (mentioned by Jesus) so the scriptures may be fulfilled? “Whoever blaspheme against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness for ever but it’s guilty of everlasting sin”.

    There are three known, scriptural sinners, that have sin against the Holy Spirit and is mention in the Bible;

    Judas Iscariot is the first, please call to mind that this particular sin was foretold or prophesied.

    Let me try to use a more modern approach, some of us who have a life policy, known as life insurance policy to protect or cover our benefactors. However all insurance policies have limitations. So those, Jesus ransom sacrifice it’s like a life policy, it has what’s covered and what’s not covered on the policy, technically known as inclusions and exclusions.

    Jesus’s live policy; also has inclusion and exclusion, Truly I say to you… Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit has no forgiveness for ever!

    • Anonymous CJ

      Prodigal.,
      Thank you for your comment. However we must disagree. The only unforgivable sin is sin against the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:28-30). Only the anointed possess the Holy Spirit therefore only they can sin against it. To sin against the Holy Spirit entails having the Holy sprint, knowing the absolute truth, then willfully rejecting it. The world of mankind doesn’t not have the Holy Spirit to sin against. Let’s take an example. The Jehovah’s Witnesses believe they Sodom will not be resurrected. However lets take a look at what the Bible has to say.

      “Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.” – Matthew 10:15

      If Sodom is not to be ressurected please explain what will be more bearable for them in a day of Judgement that they will not be in!!!!!

      The Bible guarantees a resurrection for everyone.
      “As in Adam all are dying as so in the Christ ask shall be made alive.”
      1 Cor 15:22

      We are currently in the Gospel Age (Christian portion of this system of things) which opened when Christ came and will be open until the 144,000 is complete. Nowhere does the Bible show that anyone other than the spirit anointed can go into second death. The world of mankind cannot blaspheme against what they do not have. The only time the world of mankind will go into second death is at the end of the 1000 years when Satan is let out.

  • greg (Bible Student)

    Hi Peter and/or Jacqueline.

    I tried to reply to this twice now and neither instance showed up. Did I perhaps trigger the spam filters again?

    If my reply attempts can be still retrieved, can you post only the second one, please? I tweaked it a bit more while I was waiting to see if the first attempt showed up.

    Thanks so much.
    -greg

  • greg (Bible Student)

    (Something unexpected happened when I clicked “Post Comment” so I hope this doesn’t show up twice, despite the fact that I checked and waited to see if it actually went through the after first attempt.)

    Hi Lee Anthony.

    I, too, have puzzled over this passage.

    I don’t have a detailed scriptural “proof” I can give you. What I can offer you is my “current understanding.”

    Brother Russell seems to have indicated his belief that Judas would probably not have any hope of a resurrection. He says, “[Judas] sinned against great light; there is no hope for him in a future life.” And yet he also says, “But if God has anything for Judas in the future, you will not find me making any objection.” You can read and research more about that here: http://www.htdb.net/EBC2/EBC40.htm#26:24

    I highly esteem and respect Brother Russell and I also treasure all his expressions, and so I would never dare to think myself more learned than him. Yet, in this case I find that I do remain somewhat unconvinced that it’s totally inconceivable that Judas could return in the resurrection. I fully trust that if I could sit and converse with Brother Russell on the subject we would both enjoy the stimulating conversation, and both be enriched for it. Whether or not we would eventually come to share the same conclusions, I cannot say.

    Perhaps my uncertainty is simply because I haven’t done sufficient research into the matter. Yet, in my mind I cannot yet dismiss some very strong arguments I have about the notion. I might be persuaded to share my nagging internal arguments here, but for now, I want to simply address what I believe to be your question.

    If Judas is not to be resurrected, then he is one of a very tiny handful of persons who will not be coming back. (Are there as of yet any others who will not return? Hmmm… What a discussion these questions might inspire!) But assuming Judas will not be resurrected, then in that sense, yes, it would have been better if he had died before he had persisted so long in his course that he came to be viewed by God as incorrigible. Had he died before being born, there would still be hope that his life course and choices could have had a different outcome.

    But what if Judas is resurrected? How could that be considered so terrible that it would be better for him that he had not been born? Well, I just imagine how terrible I would feel if it was me in Judas’ shoes. I mean, think of it: How could I ever live with myself knowing that I helped kill God’s son? That I betrayed someone who called me to be his friend and disciple? And for what? 30 pieces of silver? And that I lost out on a chance to reign as a king and priest alongside Jesus in heaven? And how could I face other people who all knew it was me? Oh! the shame! The humiliation! The LOSS! The Grief! The regrets!

    And surely it would seem so hopeless and full of relentless despair that I too would rush to kill myself to end the pain of living with myself. (I know and say this because I actually did spent several decades of my life wanting to kill myself, and that mostly for sins merely perceived, and of those sins that were indeed fact being so comparatively insignificant as what Judas did.)

    So regardless of whether or not Judas is resurrected, either way, to have not have been born or to not have even existed would in many ways seem preferable to enduring the painful awareness or regrets and crushing weight of several very grave sins. To have died after a brief and virtually unknown existence would be preferable to a life filled with the knowledge and awareness of how one’s actions did not serve life.

    Regardless of whether or not Judas comes back, I find great peace in that I trust fully that God is just, and righteous. As Abraham said in Genesis 18:25, “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” And so even though I remain undecided and unconvinced either way, I find I can accept and even enjoy that relatively small (it’s small to me, anyways) measure of uncertainty. I accept that I do not KNOW for sure, and I don’t find that I absolutely MUST KNOW. Rather, I find myself in total agreement with the words that Brother Russell said, “But if God has anything for Judas in the future, you will not find me making any objection.”

    How does this sit for you, Lee?
    -greg

  • Lee Anthony

    Hello,
    I have a question about a verse I was just reading (that I have never heard an explanation of) and i have never really thought about before… In (matt. 26:24) Jesus says “woe to the man who betrays the son of man it would be better for him if he had not been born” What is Jesus saying about Judas and it being better not to be born?? It almost seems that he was talking about the way of death cause in 1st part of verse it says “son of man will go just as it is written” yet i thought that somewhere it says jesus was to suffer more than anyone else…Any thoughts?

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Lee Anthony: Thank you for a very interesting question. Let’s take a look at the verse you are citing.

      Matthew 26:24 (NKJV)”The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

      Okay. So Jesus says it is better if Judas had never been born. Never existed? No. A stillborn child / miscarriage is a child that existed it the womb, but never left the womb alive. In that case, Judas could have been resurrected in the Kingdom with a clean slate and a full opportunity for life.

      Job describes the condition of both the child that dies at birth and also the stillborn child who dies in the womb. In both cases, they are said to be sleeping in death with the great people who died before them. These too will be resurrected to the paradise earth kingdom in the future.

      Job 3:11-19 (ESV) “11 Why did I not die at birth,
      come out from the womb and expire?
      12 Why did the knees receive me?
      Or why the breasts, that I should nurse?
      13 For then I would have lain down and been quiet;
      I would have slept; then I would have been at rest,
      14 with kings and counselors of the earth
      who rebuilt ruins for themselves,
      15 or with princes who had gold,
      who filled their houses with silver.
      16 Or why was I not as a hidden stillborn child,
      as infants who never see the light?
      17 There the wicked cease from troubling,
      and there the weary are at rest.
      18 There the prisoners are at ease together;
      they hear not the voice of the taskmaster.
      19 The small and the great are there,
      and the slave is free from his master.”

      We would love to here more from you on this or any other topic.

      • Lee Anthony

        Peter K.
        Thanks for response. Still a little confused on Judas… Is the implication then that he will still have a resurrection? (John 5:28) does say all in the graves will rise so this does of course make sense..

        • greg (Bible Student)

          Hi Lee Anthony.

          I, too, have puzzled over this passage.

          I don’t have a detailed scriptural “proof” I can give you. What I can offer you is my “current understanding.”

          Brother Russell indicated his belief that Judas would not have any hope of a resurrection. You can read and research more about that here: http://www.htdb.net/EBC2/EBC40.htm#26:24

          I highly esteem and respect Brother Russell and I also treasure all his expressions, and so I would never dare to think myself more learned than him. Yet, in this case I find that I do remain somewhat unconvinced that it’s totally inconceivable that Judas could return in the resurrection. I fully trust that if I could sit and converse with Brother Russell on the subject we would both enjoy the stimulating conversation, and both be enriched for it. Whether or not we would eventually come to share the same conclusions, I cannot say.

          Perhaps my uncertainty is simply because I haven’t done sufficient research into the matter. Yet, in my mind I cannot yet dismiss some very strong arguments I have about the notion. I might be persuaded to share my nagging internal arguments here, but for now, I want to simply address what I believe to be your question.

          If Judas is not to be resurrected, then he is one of a very tiny handful of persons who will not be coming back. (Are there as of yet any others who will not return? Hmmm… What a discussion these questions might inspire!) But assuming Judas will not be resurrected, then in that sense, yes, it would have been better if he had died before he had persisted so long in his course that he came to be viewed by God as incorrigible. Had he died before being born, there would still be hope that his life course and choices could have had a different outcome.

          But what if Judas is resurrected? How could that be considered so terrible that it would be better for him that he had not been born? Well, I just imagine how terrible I would feel if it was me in Judas’ shoes. I mean, think of it: How could I ever live with myself knowing that I helped kill God’s son? That I betrayed someone who called me to be his friend and disciple? And for what? 30 pieces of silver? And that I lost out on a chance to reign as a king and priest alongside Jesus in heaven? And how could I face other people who all knew it was me? Oh! the shame! The humiliation! The LOSS! The Grief! The regrets!

          And surely it would seem so hopeless and full of relentless despair that I too would rush to kill myself to end the pain of living with myself. (I know and say this because I actually did spent several decades of my life wanting to kill myself, and that mostly for sins merely perceived, and of those sins that were indeed fact being so comparatively insignificant as what Judas did.)

          So regardless of whether or not Judas is resurrected, either way, to have not have been born or to not have even existed would in many ways seem preferable to enduring the painful awareness or regrets and crushing weight of several very grave sins. To have died after a brief and virtually unknown existence would be preferable to a life filled with the knowledge and awareness of how one’s actions did not serve life.

          Regardless of whether or not Judas comes back, I find great peace in that I trust fully that God is just, and righteous. As Abraham said in Genesis 18:25, “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” And so even though I remain unconvinced either way, I find I can accept and even enjoy that relatively small (it’s small to me, anyways) measure of uncertainty.

          How does this sit for you, Lee?
          -greg

        • Peter K. (admin)

          Lee Anthony – Greg’s reply helps to illustrate that Bible Students are not united on whether or not Judas will come back in the resurrected. One point of view is that Judas was a special case and a special exception to the Ransom since he had such a close relationship directly with Jesus for 3 1/2 years. If Judas is resurrected he will have to face all mankind in shame and demonstrate real repentance. You can find a debate on the question of whether Judas died the second death here:

          http://bibleresources.info/audio-hymns/audio-sermons/
          Search for the topic below:
          Did Judas Die the Second Death?
          Bill Dutka & Michael Nekora – General Convention 2007

          • Lee Anthony

            Peter and Greg,
            Thanks for insight. This is enough to satisfy my curiosities about the subject, I really have noone to discuss such things with in detail, a jw would just pull up a wt article as an explanation. I find that I dont need an explaination of everything in black and white since that knowledge specifically will not lead me unto life, I believe only Jesus can do that. (john 14:6) However, I will certainly listen to the debate on the matter. Thanks for the link. Study of the scriptures and discussion of that with others is a nice relief from the normal ( we know all attitude of the kingdom hall meetings). Thanks.

            • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

              Lee Anthony hello, I believe Jesus died for all fallen man including his betrayed on that night. They killed him not Judas. The decision was made in Genesis that it was between Satan and her seed not Judas.
              His death before Christ was a loss of being a foundation floor for the kingdom, one of the twelve.
              Could it be Jesus uttered a prophecy about his attitude in the Millennium maybe by saying son of destruction?
              I don’t know but I have faith God will be just for many did much more to our Lord than Judas. Lots could identify Jesus if they had waited until day for he preached openly. I think there is something deeper maybe about Judas as God knows the End to the Beginning on who we will be by choice. Just my two cents worth.

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