Latest Comments Digest

100 latest comments from our from all posts articles on our site, newest at the top
(Click on the Date link at the end of each entry to see the entire comment)

  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave Rev 19:1 NWT "19 After this I heard what seemed to be a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. They said: “Praise... } – Mar 25, 5:02 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Sorry Psalm 45:13-15 } – Mar 25, 4:44 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave, Why are the great crowd following the Bride into the palace? Psalms 35"13-15 "The King’s daughter is all glorious within; Her clothing is interwoven... } – Mar 25, 4:44 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave, Rev 19:1 "After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven..." Simple. I dont need to split... } – Mar 25, 4:42 PM
  • User AvatarKevin davis { I am going to spend time in bible study. I need to make changes in my life. God is love that is what his spirit... } – Mar 25, 4:08 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Common English bible 7:13 Note the question. Who are these people wearing white robes, and where did they come from? The anointed... } – Mar 25, 4:00 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave, I'm not going do a scripture tip-for-tat. I used to be a JW. I used to look for arguements to show that I was... } – Mar 25, 2:52 PM
  • User AvatarDave { Thank you for your comments Chris. Rev. 21:3 Look! The tent of God is with mankind Psalms 15:1,2,O Jehovah, who will be a quest in... } – Mar 25, 2:23 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave, Yes. The bride is in heaven. Notice how in Psalm 45 tye bride is described in verse 13 and 14. Then the "virgin companions"... } – Mar 25, 1:14 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's . Did you see the problems with those 2 verses? } – Mar 25, 12:52 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Rolando, Oh ok. It's on the Dawn Website } – Mar 25, 12:48 PM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { The Grace of Jehovah } – Mar 25, 12:04 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Rev. 19:7,8, Let us rejoice and celebrate, and give him the glory, for the wedding day of the Lamb has come,and his... } – Mar 25, 11:06 AM
  • User AvatarChristopher Johns { Rolando, What booklet are you talking about? } – Mar 25, 7:19 AM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { Back in the early 1990s I actually updated this booklets, since it was outdated and refuted JW doctrines that they no longer believed. The booklet... } – Mar 24, 10:20 PM
  • User AvatarChristopher Johns { Dave, Thanks for your response. I as well have all of Rutherfords Books and Paul SL Johnson. Yes we believe the world of mankind is... } – Mar 24, 11:05 AM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. I have his studies, even a nice copy of the photo drama of creation. Also have most of Rutherfords books. Sadly for... } – Mar 23, 8:14 PM
  • User AvatarChristopher Johns { Dave, I used to be a Jehovahs Witness. I loved it. But I read CT Russell' Divine Plan of the Ages! It changed my life... } – Mar 23, 6:30 PM
  • User AvatarChristopher Johns { Dave, So you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses? } – Mar 23, 6:13 PM
  • User AvatarDave { Are you a prodigal son? If so welcome back. } – Mar 23, 5:42 PM
  • User AvatarDave { Even thought we have not met, my prays are for all the brothers and sisters around the world . Your included, now let's say Jehovah... } – Mar 23, 5:40 PM
  • User AvatarDave { Governing Body doesn't have your fears. It is a safety protection for all. My wife and I had a anointed sister and her daughter stay... } – Mar 23, 5:36 PM
  • User AvatarDave { Why are the last anointed one? } – Mar 23, 5:25 PM
  • User AvatarDave { Hi Tapio If you would like to discuss the Gentile times I would be happy to. For 28 years ctr said it was coming .... } – Mar 23, 4:23 PM
  • User AvatarKevin Davis { Kingdom hall of altavista elders made a wise decision to close. During this time of sickness coming thru our town. Good job elders. They have... } – Mar 23, 4:19 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Thank you. } – Mar 23, 3:01 PM
  • User AvatarChristopher Johns { Dave, April 7, 2020. } – Mar 23, 12:53 PM
  • User AvatarDave { What is the Lords evening meal date this year? } – Mar 23, 12:51 PM
  • User AvatarKevin davis { The bible talks about the transfer of wealth from the wicked to to the righteous. I will have food soon. My oil is full now.... } – Mar 23, 9:28 AM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. With this the words of the... } – Mar 22, 6:33 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { He didnt go out to argue. When some came to him he could argue. Not go out to tru to refute. Jesus took on the... } – Mar 22, 6:27 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Think if he read this to them the Jews. Because of our sins and the wrong doing of our parents, both Jerusalem... } – Mar 22, 10:27 AM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Did you see in my last post, Apollo's was not afraid to argue with the Jews over scripture? } – Mar 22, 10:23 AM
  • User AvatarDave { To All. Did Apollos have the heavenly call? If answer is yes, 1. Was it when he believed? 2. Was he a chosen one on... } – Mar 22, 10:20 AM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Yes billions will be resurrected. Romans 6:23; 3:23. But Jesus and the bride are going to bring removal of those Jesus judges... } – Mar 21, 9:25 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Well Dave. I hope you keep searching and God bless your studies. Im not going to argue with anyone in scripture. It gets nowhere. So... } – Mar 21, 9:24 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Grammar corrected. Dave, God wants us all to be saved. However he is only going to the gentiles to gather the rest of the bride.... } – Mar 21, 9:17 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave, God wants us all to be saved. However he is only going to to the gentiles to gather the rest if the bride. Again... } – Mar 21, 9:15 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave, God wants us all to be saved. However he is only going to to the gentiles to gather the rest if the bride. Again... } – Mar 21, 9:15 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. The spirit and bride are speaking to any who are willing to listen. Remember Acts 17:30 EVERYONE!!! EVERYWHERE!!! It is that simple,... } – Mar 21, 9:09 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave, Yes there will be people who die in Armageddon. However your missing a huge chunk of the bible. All are going to be resurrected... } – Mar 21, 9:08 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. One more thought.Jesus referring to end times. Matthew 24:37-39 As it was in the time of Noah, so it will be in... } – Mar 21, 9:02 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave, There have been so many viruses and when this passes then what? Was assume something else? The world will have their trial in the... } – Mar 21, 8:59 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Yes the bride, the little flock. Luke 11:32 But I saw another dave not me left a message, Rev. 19 Jesus and... } – Mar 21, 8:52 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Your question, how will these priests rule over these people if their destroyed or are in hell? Rev. 20:4-6 Note where it... } – Mar 21, 8:44 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave. Pf course. However we see that God is calling a bride. He isnt calling the world. That's why we are called a little flock.... } – Mar 21, 8:41 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's. Acts 17:30 reads, God overlooks these things in times past, but now directs everyone everywhere to change their hearts and lives. } – Mar 21, 8:30 PM
  • User AvatarChris Johns { Dave. The world is not on trial. The scriptures confirm this. God was only dealing with Israel. Now hes opened it up to the gentiles... } – Mar 21, 7:03 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Christopher John's Only church is on trial. Matthew 24:24 False Christ's and false prophets will appear, and they will offer great signs and wonders... } – Mar 21, 6:17 PM
  • User AvatarDave { To Marc on trinity. 1. Matthew 19:6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. That's a couple that gets married. The rest of... } – Mar 21, 6:02 PM
  • User AvatarChristopher Johns { Kevin, That is very interesting. And true. That's why nearly 75% of the Bible students left the organization that Rutherford created. I think the biggest... } – Mar 18, 10:58 AM
  • User AvatarKevin Anthony { Rutherford left the path of truth that Brother Russell laid down. Simple as that. Anyone running for the High Calling in Christ would have recognized... } – Mar 18, 8:39 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { John, Let's review part of 1 Corinthians 7 Married Couples 1 Cor 7:10-11 10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the... } – Mar 10, 7:48 AM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { Hello John,Interesting what you had to say-But The Son of God Said in Mathew 19:7-9 (This really explains the Situation) "They said to him: "Why,then,did... } – Mar 09, 8:44 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { 2034, Thanks. Doesn't Dan 12:4 mean that the book of Daniel could not be understood until the time of the end when Michael stands up?... } – Mar 03, 2:57 PM
  • User Avatar2034 { Peter K The greatest action is the removal of the Devil, everything is secondary to his power in the human world, such as world government.... } – Mar 03, 2:40 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { 2034 You answered my question Do you believe Michael is yet to stand up in the future? Your answer: FUTURE You did NOT answered my... } – Mar 03, 7:42 AM
  • User Avatar2034 { Clarification: This "Michael" Devil confrontation of the future, is the chained-abyssed-sealed imprisoning of Satan. Rev20:13, after he conquers world government as Rev19:19-21, at the full... } – Mar 02, 6:43 PM
  • User Avatar2034 { I think realistically Jesus will be performing a perfect final "presence" and eventual full manifestation after he secures all savable humans. That final timeframe, when... } – Mar 02, 6:26 PM
  • User Avatar2034 { Correction: Daniel 11:40-45, not Daniel 11:4-45 } – Mar 02, 4:49 PM
  • User Avatar2034 { Yes, I believe the "Michael" appearance is when demons are also being confronted, as in Revelation 12. Daniel 11:4-45 is the King South "7th King"... } – Mar 02, 4:48 PM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { Richard, I don't have the exact date, but it was in the early 80s in the Bronx. It was a special talk given on a... } – Feb 29, 9:22 PM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { RR-When and where was that talk Given.Any one who would swallow that information would certainly have to be brainwashed,as most JWs are.Love to hear from... } – Feb 28, 6:42 PM
  • User AvatarRR { Yes Roy, that's what the Watchtower wants you to believe. Just like Carey Barber who visited our hall and gave a special talk told us... } – Feb 27, 8:07 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Many of them continue independently and view the Watchtower organization to have adopted doctrinal errors over the years. } – Feb 25, 10:03 AM
  • User AvatarRoy { Last thing I knew about this was that many of them assimilated into JW, as estimated 5000 in Moldova and probably the ones in other... } – Feb 25, 8:59 AM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { <> I've thought about that … I believe things would still be as they are. Probably wouldn't have Jehovah's Witnesses … but the splits in... } – Feb 23, 5:53 PM
  • User AvatarZionsHerald { Thank you Rud, I believe what you have stated is correct and will detail out some of the evidence I have from both sides of... } – Feb 19, 11:29 AM
  • User AvatarZionsHerald { Thank you for the correction Randy. In my personal collection I have nearly a complete collection of studies in the Scriptures with a publish date... } – Feb 19, 11:25 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Exile- Thanks. Transparency, mutual respect and Christian liberty is the best way. } – Feb 19, 7:17 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Thanks Randy. We are always striving for accuracy. Can you share your source? } – Feb 19, 7:14 AM
  • User AvatarRandy Smith { Hello, I’d like to correct the suggestion that Russell’s Scripture Studies ceased to be published in 1924. The society in fact continued to publish them... } – Feb 18, 11:09 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Rud, Thanks for the good information. I am doing a little more digging myself now. Keep in mind that a lot of information Bible Students... } – Feb 18, 8:51 AM
  • User Avatarexile { Three or four years ago there was a WT study article that stated that annointed should not form private groups. That same article also warned... } – Feb 16, 8:25 PM
  • User AvatarChris J { Peter, When I was a Jw I partook my last two years. They didn’t say anything but that it was between me and God. } – Feb 16, 11:09 AM
  • User AvatarRud Persson { Laura Whitehouse was Isaac Hoskins´ sister-in-law. Eventually she came to live with the Hoskins. If she would tell people about Rutherord being dismissed she certainly... } – Feb 16, 9:58 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Rolando - Thanks for your comments on the January Watchtower study issue. I noticed the article lists many of the evidences of spirit begettal (anointing)... } – Feb 16, 6:14 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Terry - You can find the answer at this link. https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2012/09/08/75-of-the-original-bible-students-left-the-watchtower-by-1931/ } – Feb 13, 11:02 AM
  • User AvatarTerry Bernard { I am interested in where you get this figure: 75% of Bible Students who left the Watchtower because they would not follow J.F. Rutherford Someone... } – Feb 10, 11:25 AM
  • User AvatarROLANDO RODRIGUEZ { The January 2020 issue of the Watchtower had this to say about anointed JW's https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines ... -with-you/ 7 Anointed Christians do not feel that they... } – Feb 09, 7:41 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Thanks Br. Jim - Around 1988 when I was in Palm Dessert California for a few months, Bro. Ken Thompson (over 90 years old) told... } – Feb 06, 5:48 AM
  • User AvatarJames Parkinson { I can add one thing. Laura Whitehouse was a signator to Bro. Russell's 1907 will. A relative of hers told me that she understood JFR... } – Feb 03, 10:01 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Thanks Br. Ronald - These quotes are more confirmation that Bible Student do not believe in control or abusive treatment over any other christian, but... } – Feb 01, 6:01 PM
  • User AvatarRonald Day { Some things Russell said about organization: There is no organization today clothed with authority. -- Watch Tower, September 1, 1893, page 262. A visible organization... } – Feb 01, 9:45 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { 2034, Thanks for sharing your studies. Do you believe Michael is yet to stand up in the future? Do you believe the understanding of Danilel's... } – Jan 30, 7:12 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { 2034 - Thanks. Do you believe angels and those remaining on earth after the Rev 20 thousand years and little season have immortality (as opposed... } – Jan 30, 7:04 AM
  • User Avatar2034 { The Daniel 12:11 1290 days of "8th King" World Government will also trigger the Christ arrival. And because he gathers the sheep first worldwide (Rev14:6-7),... } – Jan 27, 7:02 AM
  • User Avatar2034 { It appears Revelation 21 has Kingdom purposes for "coming down from heaven" to earth for humans. The one hope is immortality, the realm is heavenly... } – Jan 27, 6:58 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Thanks Rena. - It is our hope that with open and honest discussion (without fear) that we can reason together in love with each other... } – Jan 20, 8:33 AM
  • User AvatarRena Luecking aka Just Stay Sweet and Good { I agree Chris. the general attitude is not spiritual but combative these days. When people are attacked their "fight or flight" response kicks in. Our... } – Jan 19, 9:44 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Thanks Preach. So true. "today the larger percent of those who withdrew from so-called organized Christianity have turned aside and again gone back into the... } – Jan 14, 6:03 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Sky - Thanks for commenting. "God desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." 1 Tim 2:4. Thankfully God's... } – Dec 31, 10:42 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Marc - I am going to assume you actually believe this scenario where over 99% of mankind goes to hell. I have two questions for... } – Dec 30, 2:48 PM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Br. Richard, I personally knew Sr. Marge since I was a teenager. Any comments I could make would not do justice in describing her kindness,... } – Dec 30, 7:26 AM
  • User AvatarPeter K. (admin) { Thanks Br. Richard. I appreciate your support in making this book available. } – Dec 30, 7:17 AM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { No more from me Bro Peter.We have Listened.But the arguments of Scripture that Marc quoted do not in any way or form point to a... } – Dec 29, 10:45 PM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { Dear Brother Peter,We have plenty of the booklets,We had them reprinted.I have let G/Eagle know & asked him to e/mail me if he would like... } – Dec 29, 10:36 PM
  • User AvatarRichard.Tazzyman { Hello Golden Eagle.If you send me your email details to rtazzyman@dodo.com.au I will send you a copy or copies.(No charge)Richard.Tazzyman,Bible Student Australia } – Dec 29, 10:34 PM
  • User AvatarChristopher Johns { Another self righteous comment. It makes me think when a Christian calls someone a name and then uses the scripture of jesus calling the pharisees... } – Dec 29, 10:07 PM
  • User AvatarMarc Taylor { You did a great job rambling on but totally ignored Romans 9:18. } – Dec 29, 6:16 PM
  • «« »»

215 comments to Latest Comments Digest

  • Hank

    To Peter.

    As you learn more you will get that answer. Let me know what Joshua 10:12,13, Ecclesiastes 1:5 and Habbukuk 3:11 mean to you.
    Do you believe God stopped the million mile universe moving everything. Including the sun and moon to quit moving and to stkp the earth spinning? Or did he simply stop the sun and moon? Hank

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Thanks Hank. Good questions. Your interpretation are more literal and that is fine. It is up to each of us to try to come to our own best honest conclusion. I will share my thoughts. Take it for what it is worth.

      I might start by noting that any of us flying in an airplane at a high enough altitude can see the curvature of the earth.

      Going to the Bible, there is no verse that I am aware of that says that the earth is flat. I don’t think that we should feel compelled to explain every miracle in the Bible to conform to our understandings of science and physics. Here is a sincere question for my understanding. How would you explain from a flat earth perspective? Did God Simply stop the sun from moving around a flat earth? I just want to make sure I understand you.

      Isaiah 11:12 (ESV) says “He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”

      Are we to take “four corners of the earth” literally? The Jewish people were dispersed among Gentile nations for nearly 2,000 years after the Roman Army destroyed the nation and burned Jerusalem. Would a flat earth have four corners and if so, where are the four corners?

      There are various proposed answers for the sun standing still, including a slowing of the earth’s rotation. https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_625.cfm

      Perhaps the standing still of the sun and moon is no more to be understood literally than that fighting of the stars down out of their courses, or the melting down of the mountains (Isa 34:3 : Amos 9:13; Micah 1:3), the rending of the heavens (Psa 18:10), or the skipping of Lebanon (Psa 29:6), the clapping of hands by the trees in the field (Isa 55:12), the leaping of the mountains and hills (Psa 114:46), the bowing of the heavens (Psa 18:10). It is figurative language which we have here to interpret.

      In the verses below (you cited verse 11), we have another example of the sun and moon standing still. Here also God rides on horses with chariots and arrows. God marched through the land and trampled nations. This is clearly figurative language. Perhaps the sun and moon did not literally stand still again any more than we can take the other parts of these verses literally.

      Habakkuk 3:8-12 (NKJV) “8 O LORD, were You displeased with the rivers, Was Your anger against the rivers, Was Your wrath against the sea, That You rode on Your horses, Your chariots of salvation? 9 Your bow was made quite ready; Oaths were sworn over Your arrows. Selah You divided the earth with rivers. 10 The mountains saw You and trembled; The overflowing of the water passed by. The deep uttered its voice, And lifted its hands on high. 11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation; At the light of Your arrows they went, At the shining of Your glittering spear. 12 You marched through the land in indignation; You trampled the nations in anger.”

      If we accept flat earth, than we have to believe in a mass deception of the scientific world and that satellites taking pictures of the round earth and other planets are fake. If true, I would like to see some evidence of a coverup, like hearing from some insiders on podcasts who are witnesses to the deception. In any case, we can see with our own eyes that the sun and moon are round or spherical and even the planets by telescope. So it doesn’t seem far fetched to me that the earth would be a sphere as well.

      If however the earth actually were proven to be flat, it would not shake my faith in the Bible.

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts Hank. If my comments are not satisfying to you, that is fine. You have the Christian liberty to come to your own honest conclusions. You are welcome to respond if you desire.

  • DOUG EVANS

    RR,

    I see what you mean about that. I am scared that if I would get into the JW I would get disfelloshipped early on. I was wanting to get into their beliefs but I am afraid of that. I dont believe my wife would join if I did either.

    Doug

    • Doug, the Watchtower would expect complete obedience when you join. in fact before baptism, you will sit down with the elders while they ask you over 100 questions about doctrine and practices, that you will have to answer with chapter and verse.

      Any doubts you may have, will have to stay between you and the Lord, because to confine in another Witness will be detrimental. Witnesses are trained to report their own siblings if they should express any doubts in Watchtower teachings.

  • DOUG EVANS

    RR,

    Thank you for providing insight on that.

    Doug

  • DOUG EVANS

    RR,

    I sent you my email address.

    Doug

  • Dave

    Thank you Criss.Do you ever hold your conventions .

    • Christopher Johns

      Dave,
      Yes we have three here a year in our area but there is at least one convention a weekend all year. We have the general convention once a year for 6 days. We have one 2 hours away which is my favorite. We have one here where I live. This year we had two amazing elders coming who are my favorite but we had to cancel it due to this virus. Many are hosting online conventions. But I love the conventions. I love the memorial. If you ever get a chance to download the bible resources app there are a few discourses that I would recommend to be listened to. You can type “Great Crowd” or “Great Company” and one i listened to that was good as it talks about where they serve God and the other was “The Third Babylon”. It draws the parallels between what happened in the WT after the death of russell and parallels it with what happened to the church after the apostles died.

  • Dave

    To Christopher John’s.

    Because of the cowincedence, would like to share this with you. Was listening to Bible Students convention 2018 on Armageddon. They mentioned Joel 2:1-11 and said the saints are not the army. They are right, but they didnt know who it was. A few points that might help you agree it was about Babylon coming to destroy Jerusalem. Read chapter 1:6, invaded my land. 2;3 in front of them a fire consumes and behind them a flame burns. Land ahead of them is like Eden’s garden, but they leave behind them a barren wasteland; nothing escapes them .

    Did you catch what they are headed to destroy? 2 Chronicle’s 3:1 Solomon began to build the Lord’s temple in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah where the Lord had to appeared to his father David,on the place David had prepared at the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

    Genesis 2:8 The Lord God planted a garden in Eden.
    Let me know what you think.

    Dave

    • Christopher Johns

      Dave, one thing you have to know about the Bible students. We each have different views. The speaker may not have know who it was but doesn’t mean many of the brethren don’t know who it is. It was only recently that the WT changed it from JW to something else in their upcoming WT. It will change again as future developments come out. We can only guess. If you want a greater amount of discourses we have out own app called “Bible Resources”. You’ll see it and it has a cross and crown on it. Also, if you go to Columbus Bible Students we have thousands of discourses on there. On the app its called Audio Sermons. You can listen to many different ones. We also have a very popular christian show called “Christian Questions” which we have the website and the APP. Its all so amazing.

  • Dave

    To Christopher John’s.

    Let’s hold on to the confession of our hope without wavering, because the one who made the promises is reliable. Heb.10:23

  • Dave

    Thank you for your time Criss.

    The difference between you and me is.

    You accept one humans many errors. And I accept many humans errors.

    Moral of it all.

    Both could be wrong
    Or one is right with one wrong.

    So I will share one last bondage point.
    Where ctr had it set up for elders and not elders heard cases about wrong doing.

    Indeed, even if the transgressors refuse to hear ( obey) the decision of the entire Church, no punishment is to be inflicted or even attempted. What then? Merely the Church is to withdraw from him its fellowship and any and all signs or manifestations of brotherhood. Thenceforth the offender is to be treated as a heathen man and a publican.

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