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Join us for a Saturday evening conference call. What does the Bible Actually say? Will everyone who is not a Jehovah’s Witness die when Armageddon comes? The topic of the Feb 1st Watchtower Magazine is on Armageddon and we would like to respond to that in our discussion. Watchtower Sept 1, 1989 page 19 says, “Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.” Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 “Are You Prepared for Survival?” Paragraph 8 says, “Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah’s universal organization.” Only Noah and his family survived the flood and every other human being on the planet was destroyed in the flood. So the JW Organization teaches that only those in the security of the Ark, the Jehovah’s Witness Organization, will be saved from the devastation of Armageddon and every other human being on the planet will be eternally destroyed. Former JW and Bethelite, and now a Bible Student Elder, David Stein will lead a round table discussion on this topic. Guest hosts joining him will be Ric Cunningham and JM. You can call into this conference call Saturday evening. After the main discussion, you will be invited to participate with questions and comments. |
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Hi Jackie, It was nice to talk with you earlier today. We called from Michigan. I’ll check out some of the talks on Armageddon. Take care, Rob
Hello Rob, it was nice speaking with you. I know all will fall in place. Please feel free to talk here. If fact Greg and Bret will probably say hello and tell you who they are and maybe you can tell them your story. Take Care and may God Bless you. Call any of us anytime just ask for the phone number or comment here so others can benefit also.
Greetings and Welcome, Rob. I’m sure you’ll enjoy that recording. And yes, if you have questions or comments, please share them with us.
Thankyou so much for posting this! Wow, it was very enlighting, great talk by Peter. I just want to say thankyou to all who are involved in running this site, it has been such a support & immense help to me!
Warm & loving regards,
Daz
To Jerome;
What is the Kingdom? BLE Dan 2:44,45,”And in the time of those kings the God of heaven shall set up an empire invulnerable forever.”
Going to stop here for a few thoughts. Note, God sets this empire up not man. King James says a kingdom. Dict. on empire, 1.”a group of nations or peoples ruled over by one sovereign.” Dict. on kingdom,”a country having a king or queen as its head.” Dict. on government,”2.”the form or systm of rule by which a nation, state, community, etc. is governed.” 3.,”a governing body of persons.”
Back to Dan.,”and the empire shall not pass to another people; and it shall smash and end all these empires, and it itself shall stand forever, inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of a mountain without hands and smashed the iron, the bronze, the crockery, the silver, and the gold. Great God has made known to your majesty what is to be after this; and the dream is determinate, and the interpretation of it trustworthy.”
Jesus when on earth was the king designate and in 1914 C.E. he received the crown which was foretold. Ez 21:25-27 And Rev 11:15 and 1 Cor 15:27,28, show where it will end on a happy note for the universe.
The images on this page provide a false image of what Armageddon is. Armageddon not a war; neither a test or a destruction of this world.
The world as we know it today is “gone” before Christ begins his 1000 year kingdom over the earth.
Armageddon is associated with with the destruction of the throne of the Great Dragon. That throne has not arrived yet and will not arrive until after Christs 1000 year kingdom over the earth has ended and Satan brings “it” up when he ascends out of the Abyss.
One MAJOR error that has stumbled the ENTIRE world is that the religious system of Christianity (Christendom) teaches “the revelation by Jesus Christ that God gave him” as applying to our time period today. The revelation has NOTHING to do with our time period today. It is a revelation by Jesus as what MUST shortly take place AFTER his 1000 year kingdom has ended. Why?
Because afterward Jesus will no longer be king and Satan ascends out of the Abyss. At the end of the 1000 years ALL of mankind will have been restored to their Creator, but Christ no longer king.
Christ now warns: “Watch out! As soon as my kingdom ends, Satan will come up out of the Abyss and come after you to mislead you.”
This is the subject of the entire revelation. That is why Rev 1:1 says: “to show his slaves the things that must SHORTLY take place.”
SHORTLY from the “ending” of Christs 1000 year kingdom over the earth.
Armageddon is a “place.” What place? The restored world of future mankind that has had inserted into it the Wild Beast of the Dragon along with his False Prophet.
This “imposition” upon restored mankind creates a situation where mankind will be misled to resist or oppose what MUST now come down out of heaven to the earth indefinitely: God’s Kingdom.
The Invisible Great Dragon through his “visible” Wild Beast and False Prophet goes out to the restored people in those days to mislead them to oppose what is to come down.
The Dragon makes his Beastly system desirable (peaceful and safe) and the people will not want to give it up. Yet, the Dragon through his False Prophet convinces most of the world in those future days not to listen to the angelic message of the Good News of the Kingdom; to reject it.
Yes, the Good News of the Kingdom will be preached AFTER Christs 1000 year kingdom ends when God’s Kingdom is about to come down. This Good News will be preached to that future restored world of mankind that Satan has misled when he comes up out of the Abyss.
Further, that Good News of the Kingdom message is NOT being preached at present as The Most High God has not given it.
Additionally, NO HUMANS will preach it. An Angel will “declare” the Good News of the Kingdom and it is to an angel that God will give it. Revelation 14:6-7 says:
“And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people …”
Armageddon is a place – the restored world of mankind – where The Dragon and his Wild Beast and False Prophet “preach” one message to the people against the preaching of the Good News of the Kingdom of God by angels to that world. To which message will one listen to.
If that entire restored future world is misled my Satan, then there will be no humans qualified to preach the Good News of the Kingdom; angels will have to do it. That is why we see them charged with “declaring” it at Reve 14:6.
Today, the claim that the Good News of the Kingdom is being preached is in error (I won’t say lie because that is too strong of a word).
I challenge anyone to tell me “WHAT” that message is. Show me where it is written. I don’t mean what the Watch Tower make it to be for themselves; but the ACTUAL Kingdom Message. Where is it and what is it?
And, reconcile why Revelation shows “an angel” declaring the Good News.
I used to be a faithful JW for more than 20 years, so I am not looking to what the “publications” say. I know what they say.
Why does an organization that claims it has “the truth” teaching that “it is” preaching the Good News of the Kingdom when an angel – in midheaven, not on earth – is seen declaring it.
I know the Watch Tower that this angel is in heaven “directing” the preaching. Yet, that is NOT what is written.
Please everybody,know that I am just a brother, a sinner, and have NO heavenly wish at all . I am not “holy”, but I am a BIG believer in God’s original plan for this earth and man !
We all have different callings ; I’m a soldier for peace perhaps. I believe this; “I will exalt you (people) to take possession of the earth” .
Simply done – by separating from those who prefer satans system , and thereby allowing it’s destruction .
“I have set these things as examples for you , upon whom the end of the ages has come” (satans ages). Math 4;8. 1COR 10;11 .
Noah built an arc – then what happened ?? Lot separated from Sodom and Gomorrah – then what happened !66-70 CE ; “flee to the mountains” – then destruction (AND … led to the good news spread worldwide) , TODAY – SEPARATE to allow destruction of satans system and cities – and lastly; even after our Lord’s 1000 year reign . ALWAYS…TWO groups of people ! TWO beliefs …God’s way – or satans . (I believe …that is).
I am earthly, and still would love to understand and see and enjoy the wonders of this beautiful earth that God created for us .
NOBODY must “flee to the mountains”individually . UNITY of belief must come first, as it was in Moses’ day , and aided by SIGNS .
This is a WORLDWIDE EXODUS…to the promised land… BLESSED by YaHWeH, by OBEYING His son, our Lord and savior Jesus Christ …Amen .
Read to understand Isaiah 2 , 60,61,62,65,66 with the Messiah’s instruction in mind . Then theres TONS more from ALL he end time prophets .Daniel, Joel,Zack,Zeph etc and Rev .
ALL…in perfect harmony ; “before us a garden of Eden – behind us a desolate waste”. HallaluJAH … Praise JAH you people . Thank you Lord Jesus .
“Hi Allen are these people in zechariah 14 v 16-19 that survive Armageddon belivers or non believers At the time of the great tribulation”
Thank you “humbleman” ;
To me ;there are TWO lots of survivors on earth after the great tribulation is cut short . The earthly “chosen ones” or “elite”(Math24;21-22) who separated from the destruction on satans cities,and have established “the mountain of the house of Jehovah ” worldwide. Isaiah 2;1-5.
The earthly Mt Zion and Jerusalem, as in King Davids day, awaiting “our” King David… Jesus Christ .
The unbelievers are the survivors amongst the flattened cities “who beat themselves in lamentation” at the SIGN of the Messiah’s presence , “immediately AFTER the tribulation is cut short – or no flesh would survive !Math 24;20-31.
The anointed “chosen ones” are now gathered .This is NOT HarMagedon yet,but the end of 3 1/2 years of great tribulation , as the woman (the flock)”flew to the wilderness” at Rev 12 ; 10-17 .
The great tribulation ends at Rev 6;the 6th seal . Rev19 the 7th seal… is HarMagedon.
Gog’s attack on God’s people . Eze 38,39 . The evil survivors led by the cast down satan , decide to attack those “residing with no bar and no wall”. The prospering and blessed NATION of JUDEA .
Concerning JUDAH and Jerusalem …. IN THE FINAL PART OF THE DAYS !Isaiah 2. (THIS Generation).
Hi Allen are these people in zechariah 14 v 16-19 that survive Armageddon belivers or non belivers At the time of the great tribulation ?
Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem kshall go up year after year to worship lthe King, the Lord of hosts, and mto keep nthe Feast of Booths. 17 And if oany of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship lthe King, the Lord of hosts, pthere will be no rain on them. 18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain;6 there shall be jthe plague with which the Lord afflicts the nations that do not go up mto keep the Feast of Booths. 19 This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up mto keep the Feast of Booths.
“but Allen neither you or I can tell Jesus how to do it ” !!!!
Oh well … there is clearly no point in trying to show people on this site what JESUS says about surviving the great tribulation, when you twist things like that , as if “I” am telling Jesus how to do it .
Believers in Jesus (those in Judea)ALL SURVIVED at 66-70CE by OBEYING Jesus to get out of there (flee to the mountains),and so it will be again.
You people like the Jews REJECT Jesus,and are trusting in a God of good luck.
I therefore disassociate from this site, because of your “symbolic” or “spiritual sense” twisting of Biblical fact and literal reading , as Math 24;14 PROVES literal fulfillment.
Allen in Christ there is freedom and liberty. We definitely believe in the Bible and In Jesus Christ as well as Jehovah. We appreciate any comments and everyone can feel free to talk here. But no one will make another stop thinking or have to agree with any poster in order to benefit from the info on this site. We will not go beyond what is written in the Bible on the great tribulation. You are welcome to be on this site at you will as there is no joining or membership. In Christ, Jacqueline
Allen – I know you are too mature to act like a child and to take your ball and run home. Brothers in Christ are patient with each other. I hope we can both learn from each other. 1 John 3:14 says we know we have passed from death to life because we love the brethren.”
The MAJORITY of Christ’s believers , believe satans cities and system MUST be flattened , as it IS destroying the earth . “I will bring to ruin those ruining the earth” .
Are you saying then , that the cities and coal fired power stations remain , and Jesus returns to that !!!! Is Math 24;3-14 symbolic ??? OR is symbolic only applied to parts you people don’t like .
The MAJORITY of Christ’s believers HAVE SEEN Math 24;5-8 being fulfilled ! Katrina, Haiti, Japan,are just the majors of the hundreds of SIGNS prophesied , and those affected will tell you the REALITY, and in NO WAY “symbolic”… NOR is the TOTAL flattening of satans system !
Allen the earth belongs to God and his divine plan is to return it to a paradise condition. That will happen during the thousand year reign. There will be much work to do. God is not a God of disorder but of order. This whole system and it’s way of doing things will be dismantled.
I see you are very involved in this subject but Allen neither you nor I can tell Jesus how to do it. What we do have is his assurance that this earth will be restored. Let’s you and I wait to see the fine details of his work. I am sure he is aware of the energy sources on this earth and has it all under control. What can we do now? let people that don’t know that help is on the way the details we don’t know.
What did you think about the articles on Armageddon?
Allen – In the early verses in Matt 24 you can find a detailed response to your thoughts here:
https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2012/09/01/our-lords-great-prophecy-jesus-second-presence/
In these early verses, Jesus keeps repeating that the “end is not yet.” We know from Matt 13:39 that the harvest is the “end of the age.” So the early verses of Matt 24 cover the Gospel Age leading up to the end of the age. We are now in this Harvest period. “Come out of her my people…” Rev 18:4. Earthquakes represent revolutions, famine is the famine for the Word of God during the Dark Ages. You will find this all explained in the article.
Bible symbolism is very common. The disciple asked Jesus why he kept speaking to the people in parables since they could not understand what he meant. The book of Daniel has the symbol of 4 Beasts representing 4 empires. When Jesus said in Matt 24:28 that the eagles would be gathered around the carcass, four you think he meant literal eagles and a literal carcass?
Allen, I am taking this over to the proper page. Amageddon and the time of trouble. You mentioned in an earlier comment.
Matt 24:21 “For then there will be great distress such as, until now, since the world began, there never has been, nor will ever be again.”JB
This time of distress will be financial, social, political and religious. Selfishness will reach the limit.
Wars and general anarchy, religious systems wll fall as “Great Babylon” (religious institutions) fall. Wealth will be lost.
Rev.16:18 “A great earthquake such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.”
So destructive in character that it will result in the dissolution of the present evil, selfish, social structure preparatory to the establishment of the “new earth”.
Upon the ashes of the “time of trouble” (ie “Great Tribulation”), Messiah”s Kingdom will be established with full power and glory.
The GREATEST REVOLUTION this world has ever seen will occur, It will be the KING CHRIST JESUS AND HIS ARMY riding in to save those of mankind so that some flesh will survive.
Many will perish as anarchy breaks out. Christ’s Bride will have assembled when he comes and as a mighty WARRIOR BRIDE they will ride together.
Kings and Princes will hold on to power until the bitter end and will be dashed to pieces, many will die as they fight this invasion, this take over.
Aday of judgment upon mankind nationally and socially NOT as individuals. A day of national recompense. Not for the world’s destruction but as a plowshare breaks up the ground so seed can be planted, the hearts of men will be prepared to receive the King.
The beginning of the glorious reign will be a terror for evildoers, they won’t like it. But the smiting of the earth will make them bow in humble submission or die although 100yrs old.
I will break down your comment and scriptures one by one Allen. My brother you are appling literally the Bible’s words to that which is symbolic. Take Care