75% of the Original Bible Students left the Watchtower by 1931

During the struggle between Judge Rutherford and the Bible Students, William Schnell was in the upper echelon of the Watch Tower and made very insightful observations. At the time he finally wrote his book, THIRTY YEARS A WATCHTOWER SLAVE, he was neither a Jehovah’s Witness nor a Bible Student.
Schnell noted that further doctrinal changes and aggressive promotions by Judge Rutherford resulted in a large increase in new members faithful to Judge Rutherford. But this generated opposition from Pastor Russell’s Bible Students who still remained in the Watch Tower endeavoring to reverse Judge Rutherford’s revisionism of doctrine and practice. Judge Rutherford’s reaction is described by Schnell as follows: (ii)

“Between 1925 and 1931 Rutherford embarked on a campaign to purge Russell’s followers. By 1931 over three-fourths of those formerly associated with the Bible Student movement in Pastor Russell’s day remained faithful to his teachings by completely separating from Rutherford.”

Regarding those who left, Schnell remarked, “That is precisely what the new Watch Tower Society wanted and what they had hoped to accomplish.” (iii) Speaking of the new converts Schnell said: (iv) These, of course, were in the majority after the bloodletting of three-fourths of the Bible Students had been so adroitly accomplished.

Memorial attendance figures give interesting insight as to how Watchtower membership changed in the early years.

The following numbers are from the book “Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose” printed by the Society in 1959 which has several scattered references to Memorial attendance records during the 1920s.  The numbers given are as follows:

1917 – 21,274
1918 – no reports gathered
1919 – 17,961
1920 – no reports gathered
1921 – no reports gathered
1922 – 32,661
1923 – 42,000
1924 – 62,696
1925 – 90,434
1926 – 89,278
1928  17,380
1927 to 1934 – reports gathered but never printed
1935 – 27,006

Alan Rogerson quotes from “Jehovah” (1934), p. 277, “Of the great multitude that left the world to follow Jesus Christ only a few are now in God’s organization.”  That seems to go a long way towards confirming Memorial attendance figures like about 90,434 in 1925 vs. a bit over 19,000 in 1928.
If you take the 1917 attendance of 21,274 and subtract it from the peak attendance in 1925 which was 90,434 you get almost 76.5% drop.  But it must be remembered when looking at those numbers that the “Millions” campaign was responsible for gathering many newly interested ones.  The “Millions” campaign (Millions Now Living Will Never Die) started in 1918 and declared that the church would be complete by 1921 and the Kingdom established in 1925.  When the year came and went without anything of significance taking place scores left but many of them were new converts.  Those who were faithful to the Russell’s teachings were leaving as early as 1917 and the numbers continued to dwindle through the end of the 1920s, a gradual but steady decline in the original membership.

Even more telling is the following quote taken from Judge Rutherford himself in the November 15th, 1930 Watch Tower:  “The total number of those who have withdrawn from the Society and now oppose its work is comparatively large, when such are taken altogether.  These are now divided into many companies, all claiming to be followers of Christ and claiming to be God’s little flock, while at the same time they speak evil things concerning those who are faithfully endeavoring to serve God.  They denounce the Society and its work.”

So he clearly recognized that when you compare the number of those who stayed with the Society with the number of those who left they were the ones representing the larger number.  These would have included the Layman’s, the Dawn, the PBI and various other little groups (which is why he said “when such are taken altogether”).

Other researchers have tried to produce accurate statistics and their work generally confirms that it was approximately three-quarters of the original membership in the Pastor’s day that had left the Watch Tower Society by 1931.

Not only did approximately 75% of the original Bible Students from Brother Russell’s day leave the Watchtower by 1931, but a large number of new converts from the failed “Millions” campaign had left by 1928.  After this, J. F. Rutherford changed the name of His group to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, to distinguish it from the various Bible Student groups formed.  With new marketing and organizational strategies, the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization grew dramatically in the multimillion member organization of today.

Rutherford stated that those who had left the Society were in number larger than those who stayed.

“During the past fifty years God has been causing his light to shine with increasing power upon his Word.  He has not given his people new truths, but illuminated the truths already given.  During that short period of time many have separated themselves from all organized systems of religion and have tried to walk in the way that Jesus and the apostles walked.  For a time they made progress; and then many became tired and weary in well doing or thought more highly of themselves than they should think or became lawless, while others became offended.  These turned away, so that today the larger percent of those who withdrew from so-called organized Christianity have turned aside and again gone back into the world.”The Watchtower December 1, 1927 pg 355 col 1 par 4

“Those who tremble at God’s Word are the ones who are diligent to keep and obey his commandments.  They have no fight, to be sure, with the opposers, and mention is here made of it, not for the purpose of controversy, but that God’s people may be encouraged in seeing the fulfilment of prophecy, as it is manifested by the will of God they shall be encouraged.  When it is clearly seen that the opposition to God’s work was long ago foretold by his prophet, and that the prophecy is now being fulfilled, such is a great encouragement to the faithful and is an evidence that the Lord is dealing with them and that they are in his favor.  It is therefore clear that it is the will of God that attention of the faithful shall be called to these things at this time.  The total number of those who have withdrawn from the Society and now oppose its work is comparatively large, when such are taken all together.  These are now divided into many companies, all claiming to be followers of Christ and claiming to be God’s little flock, while at the same time they speak evil things concerning those who are faithful endeavoring to serve God.” — The Watchtower November 15, 1930 pg 342 col 1 pars 1-2

Most JWs are unaware that the reason Rutherford proposed the name “Jehovah’s Witnesses” was to draw a clear line of distinction from those who had left the Society and those who remained.  It is usually thought that it was strictly due to “new light”, but the resolution adopted at that Columbus Ohio convention in 1931 centers around the need for a new name due to the divisions.  If you need the text of the resolution and the accompanying article let me know and it will be forwarded to you.  Around this time period of 1930-32 Rutherford repeatedly made attacks upon those who had withdrawn from the Society, all printed in the Watchtower, and in The Golden Age rather harsh and sarcastic replies were given to papers written by the early Dawn brethren.

Jehovah’s Witnesses have been told for decades that the difficulties and schisms experienced in the period around 1918 were part of the fulfillment of prophecies in Daniel and Revelation.  The doctrine is that the Lord came to his temple in 1918 and made a judgment as to who were actually his people.  Jesus saw that the Watchtower Society was doing his work and thus they were accepted, but all others rejected – not merely Christendom, but also those who opposed the work of the Society.  The sign that others were rejected were that they were unorganized, had no interest in preaching the gospel message, and were not exhibiting the spirit of the Lord.  But in reality there were two other groups of Bible Students who were active in preaching work, trying to remain faithful to what they understood to be truth, and were astonished by the many strange new ideas that were being promulgated at the time.  The Society’s three official accounts of their history put the primary blame of trouble upon Br. P.S.L. Johnson but what they have not revealed is that there was, essentially, a competition between the three groups (Watchtower; PBI and Johnson).  Articles in the Watchtower would be responded to by Johnson and the PBI, and articles written by Johnson were often rebutted without any acknowledgment being given that Rutherford was actually responding to him.  This three-way debate continued for nearly 20 years, with the greatest activity in the 1920s.  One of the most common practices that all three groups were guilty of is excessive type-making.  The gradual changes being printed in the Watchtower were frequently being tied to Bible prophecy, but so were the views by Johnson and the PBI.  Bottom line: while the Society makes it appear as though they were the only ones engaged in activity, others were just as active if not more so.

82 comments to 75% of the Original Bible Students left the Watchtower by 1931

  • Jacqueline

    Here is more supporting evidence that 75-80% left the watchtower by 1928.


  • Hi Peter, It depends on what Bible you read as to what Jesus spoke about himself. John 8 is full of Yeshua calling himself Ego Eimi, literal Greek for I AM…I live in a Greek speaking Island and my well respected Greek Cypriot brothers, assure me that he was calling himself I AM.

    John 8:58:
    “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”.

    Verse 5 tells us

    “Unless you believe that I am, you shall die in your sins” (8:24).

    I am not stating here that Yeshua is the Father God, as I believe that the Father gave all his instructions to the Logos (Word) who later became flesh.

    The Father is the Holy Being who cannot look upon Sin, therefore he has given the Word who later became flesh to do all of the reconcilliation between God and man..that is why he is the ONLY true Mediator between God and Man.

    So in all of those early manifestions of God to faithful men like Enoch, Noah, Abraham and so on he was and is the I AM, who is also known as Yahweh…(I do not like the word Jehovah as it is not correct and was conjured up by a RC Monk)

    In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God and the WORD was God….John 1:1

    This verse is so easy to explain when we realise that Yeshua was literally the WORD of God, the LOGOS before he became flesh. That is why God said in Genesis…let US make this or that…the LOGOS, must be the creator God as everything came about through him and FOR him. Yeshua is the same Nature as his Father…God

    It is so amazing when we realise who our Lord and Saviour really is…

    I could go on and on about his wonderful majesty and yet he even gives ALL the Glory to his Father…what an incredible lesson in humility..

    Bless you all and allow the dear Lord to speak into your hearts and reveal who he really is.


    • Peter K. (admin)

      David – I will restrain myself, as I don’t want to fall into the Trinity black hole where we find no definition or explanation of it in the Bible, but endless scriptural rationalizing.

      As you know, In Ex 3:14, Yahweh said “I AM WHO I AM” or “I AM BECOMING.” We do not find the Septuagint equivalent in John 8:58 where Jesus said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” As a matter of fact, if you search out every place in the New Testament where you find the Greek words translated “I am” it isk the common everyday words and it is applied to many different people. Investigate for yourself rather than trusting the Greek people there. I am Greek myself.

      A better translation of John 1:1 is “the Word was with the Mighty, and mighty was the Word! Which preserves the emphasis, at little compromise to the literal. See Appendix 2 here:

      • Thanks for revealing that version Peter, it is news to me that another version put’s an ‘a’ in the same place as the NWT.

        Here is the verse:

        1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God; the Word also was a god.

        As you will no doubt be aware I followed that teaching for 49 years. However once I realised that there is ONLY ONE true God, then I realised that putting an ‘a’ in this verse is false.

        The reason I say this, is how can the Logos/Yeshua be a god, when the Bible tells us that we should have no other gods before the TRUE God’s face?

        In other words if this verse is a correct rendering, the Logos must have been a false god….either the Logos is part of the Divine God head or he is not.

        This is the problem when we dimish the Word/Yeshua, he gets relegated to a lesser god. This is a teaching from Greek mythology as they taught various gods having degree’s of power and importance.

        Why does Hebrews 1:6 tells us that ALL the angels worship Yeshua? Why in Philippians 2 does it tell us that Yeshua has been given the name ABOVE every other name in heaven?

        I am not talking Oneness theology here…as I accept the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all seperate, but are ALL God.

        By the way Jacqueline, I know that Charles Russell was not a JW and I did not say that…I mentioned Rutherford as the fraud that he was.

        Anyhow Yeshua is their Judge not us.

        By the way, my own wife was sexually abused at 8 years of age by her JW brother in law…she is now 63 and had to live with that for many years…thankfully the Lord has now set her free from guilt over that time.

        May the Lord bless you and keep you


        • Peter K. (admin)

          David – I appreciate that you are very polite and reasonable.

          There is not scripture in the Bible that says that God is composed of three persons. We know that Yahweh is the one true God and this was clearly taught in the Old Testament to distinguish the True God from false gods. This does not mean that Yahweh is the only “elohim” or “theos” (Hebrew and Greek words translated god).

          Strongs 2316 “theos.” is not exclusively applied to Jehovah in scripture. In 2 Cor 4:4 it is applied to Satan and in in Acts 12:22 the people called Herod a theos. In John 10:34, Jesus quoting from Psa 82:6 said, “Is it not written in your law, `I said, You are gods’?”

          (Benjamin Breckenridge Warfield, The Person and Work of Christ, p. 53.) -As a word, “god” has a variety of applications. For example the Old Testament Hebrew word “elohim” (god) can describe any high dignitary (e.g. Abraham, Genesis 23:6). In the King James translation it is rendered variously: angels, God, gods, great, mighty, judges. Its Greek counterpart “theos” likewise has a broad usage. Strong’s Concordance defines it as: “a deity, especially … the supreme Divinity; fig. a magistrate.” If this word can describe a magistrate, then it can certainly describe Jesus, and it is so used six times in the New Testament (John 1:1, 18, 20:28, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8, 2 Peter 1:1). It is used in John 10:35 of the worshippers of Jehovah. Once it even refers to Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4).”

          Regarding the word “angel” itself, Strong’s #32 is defined as, “a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication, a pastor.” On occasion, the Greek and Hebrew words for angel simply have the meaning of messenger and do not refer to angels. Here are examples where the Greek and Hebrew do not refer to angels:

          Matt 11:10 – “For this is he of whom it is written: “Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.’ “ NKJV [Here John is speaking of Jesus]
          Luke 7:24 – When the messengers of John had departed, He began to speak to the multitudes concerning John: NKJV
          James 2:25 – Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? NKJV
          Gen 32:3 – “And Jacob sent messengers before him to Esau his brother” KJV

          In Revelation 20:1, 2 we have a great angel coming down from heaven with a chain in his hand to bind Satan. This great angel is generally accepted to be Jesus who is the one responsible for binding Satan.

          So who is Michael the Archangel (Dan 12:1; Jude 9)? Of the word, “Michael,” Strongs 4317 says “who (is) like God, ” as does Brown Driver & Briggs Hebrew Lexicon. Who else is like God, but Jesus himself?

          For “Arch” Strongs 757 “a primary verb; to be first (in political rank or power):–reign (rule) over.”

          So who else would be Jehovah’s chief messenger, but Jesus himself, the Logos “word” of God (John 1:1).

          Hence in 1 Thess 4:17, Jesus descends with the “voice of the archangel,” because he is the chief messenger of Jehovah – the Logos/word of God.

          • Thanks once again for your in depth explanation of god and the Greek and Hebrew words. When I was getting out of the WT, I embarked on a very long study into these important teachings and came to realise that no one can prove either the Trinity or Unitarianism that you hold too. I know all about Elohim and Theos and their meanings and that Elohim can also be used in a plural sense.

            I am fully aware of the angelos meaning as well and that Yeshua was the one who appeared to Moses and others as the ‘Angel of the Lord’ He obviously was the one who wrote the 10 Commandments as well, because he is the Logos/Word of God.

            That is why I find it very difficult NOW to not associate my Lord Yeshua as God and King.

            I believe that the pre-incarnate Logos was the one who spoke with all the ancient men of old, because he was the one who was used by the Father to create mankind in the first place.

            I also understand that much of Christendom does not teach the real truth and that their view of God and Christ are very confused.

            I do not have a problem with your view, providing taht you do not relegate Yeshua to a secondry role, like the WT does. The Bible tells us that he is PRE EMINANT and that is how I now accept him.

            Having looked at some of the links on your site, I have noticed that some groups still use the slanted cross and crown and I have a real problem with that symbol as it is a freemason image and used by the Knights of the Templer. When I got free of the WT I had to have a lot of prayer and deliverance because of the Masonic connections that the WT has. It is evil and witchcraft

            As usual I pray blessings over you and that you will look at Yeshua as Lord and King and totally trust in his Grace and Agape.

            Blessings David

            • Jacqueline

              Hi David, I wanted to comment on the cross and crown being Masonic. We know that Ex. 20:4,5 Jehovah said make no graven images and be induced to serve them. The cross and crown is used by so many religions you might should say the Masons copied off them.
              Rev 2:10 in part says ” Be faithful until death and I will give you the CROWN of life” (caps mine)
              Luke 9:23 “Then he said to them all; “if anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
              That is what it stands for The blood shed on the cross gives it it’s red color although I have seen them different colors. Bear your cross and you will receive the crown of life.
              I have a logo and people know it’s my company simply by the logo it actually demonstrates what my business is about. Any Christian seeing a cross and crown knows it is about Jesus. Only ex-Jehovah witnesses see it and think Masons. Jehovah witnesses see the cross and think idol but not Masons. Almost every Christian religion has to be from the masons then.
              Google cross and crown images to see where this comes from. Br. Russell was deceased when Rutherford put those symbols on his grave, not many dead persons have control over that. Br. Russell was not a Mason and BTW when the masons first started out they were just like a tradesman union they evolved later.
              Quite a few of us that have left the JW org still judge everything and every teaching on whether the society disapproved it, we can’t help ourselves sometimes.
              Well the truth is, if the BS or Br. Russell said something was black Br. Rutherford said it was green. The cross and crown was the logo of the BS and Rutherford uses the little tower symbol. If I see it anywhere on a truck as I drove across the nation, I knew that was a watchtower truck. When I pulled into a truck stop to sleep for the night I would go say hello. I knew it only from the tower symbol. Br. David try and understand what happened back there when Rutherford started his new religion. The cross and crown doesn’t identify anyone with false religion. Jehovah witnesses are the only Christian religions and probably in fact in the world that says Jesus didn’t die on a cross. Now even they say well it doesn’t matter cross or torture stake, because they know that their thought processes does not agree with history.
              Just because the society said something was wrong should not be the proof text or touchstone. Things shouldn’t be measured by them they are loco. The blood doctrine is an example and the organ transplant being cannibalism until a GB member needs a kidney. Sometimes it is hard to escape that indoctrination process put in our mind.
              Peace my brother, Jacqueline
              PS: We are not anti semetic or against Jesus. He is right upfront were he belongs. His father gave him that position. “ALL things are in his hand”.

              • Ken

                Amen Jacqueline! When I first became aquainted with the Bible students the cross and crown bothered me at first, however, after researching its origin and meaning, I came came to realize it’s just a mneumonic symbol and it’s not being “kissed” or worshipped in anyway.Just as you mentioned Jacqueline; it takes time to unlearn the Jw mentality!

              • Hi Jacqueline, Sorry if you misunderstood me again. this is the problem with forums and email. When I first got online in November 1999, the first thing I searched for was Jehovah’s Witnesses…then later on I researched the cross and whether or not it was the implement used to crucify our Lord…I discovered that Yeshua could not possible have been executed on a STAKE therefore I accepted Yeshua died on a CROSS even before we finally got out in June 2001.

                I was not questioning the Cross itself, merely the slanted version of it. Many crosses that we see on Church buildings are not correct and are from ancient cult worship, especially in the Greek Orthodox religion of Idol worshippers.

                However the plain simple CROSS with and upright pole (stauros) and the cross piece that Yeshua was nailed too is what I believe to be correct. If a person puts a crown upon it, again not problem…however the slanted cross is a mason emblem and so is the pyramid.

                Last Sunday I said to members of our fellowship that we need a cross in the place as we have to meet in a Hotel at the moment.

                In fact I totally agree with your answer to me…even the scriptures show that Yeshua died on a cross as Pilate had a plaque placed above his HEAD…if it was a stake it would have been above his hands.

                It also speaks of the NAILS (Plural) that pierced his hands…not ONE Nail.

                Yes I also accept what you say about blood, as the Bible was talking about drinking spilt blood of the slain…where as blood given today is to save life, not take it.

                I have had to get rid of all my judgmental attitude I had as a WT Adherent. Today I pray for people I would never have done as a WT Drone. This morning I was reading Romans 14, where Paul talks about Christ being everyones judge.

                We meet with all types of Christians, some are Calvinists (which I do not accept) and some have been various other denominations…we though steer clear of any ‘brand name’ Christianity although we favour Spirit lead worship and praying…and would identify more with the Pentecostal type of faith…definately not Presbeterian (no wonder Russell left them) they are dyed in the wool Calvinists, replacement theologists and cessationists.

                However who ever they are, we just leave the Judging to the Lord.

                Bless you dear folk.


                • Jacqueline

                  David I think you are correct a forum does not allow you see the facial tone and body language. Even when I comment I find a strong one and can say what quite a few of our readers are thinking. I know there is over 4,000 xjw or Jw on the site and I tend to speak to more than just the actual commenter. I figured you had cleared up most of the things you mentioned but it gave the opportunity to discuss it. You are an asset to this forum.
                  I wrote my comment about 12 midnight. Br.Peter sent me this link this morning. It answers a lot of the questions about Br. Russell.
                  O often think of Paul, they said he was contemptible and not a pretty sight to look at but the Lord used him to deliver a powerful message. Many during the great awakening period allowed the spirit in to help them break free but sadly some stayed in bondage to some doctrines like hellfire and the hellfire of the witnesses is armageddon.
                  So nice to see your efforts to help othrs, that is one thing we did learn, was to talk to people . But now we have love,acceptance and can listen, learn and not judge. You take Care David

    • James

      In Exodus 3:14 the Greek Septuagint has “ho ōn” to identify God, not the “egō eimi” of the New Testament. Hence, “I am” in the New Testament is not related to the identity of God in the KJV of Exodus 3:14.

      • Peter K. (admin)

        James – You bring out an excellent point. As you have cited, Ex 3:14, says, “14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, `I AM has sent me to you.'”” (NKJV) You have well pointed out that Jesus statement “I am” in John 8:24 is a totally different Greek word. As a matter of fact, in the Greek, it would be the same as any of us saying “I am” in a sentence, as in “I am going to the store.” No relationship to God’s name. Thanks. We have a related article you can find by clicking here:

        By the way, do you have an easy method of checking the Greek Septuagint Old Testament words by verse with a Strong’s #? Here is a place that I found – http://www.studylight.org/desk/interlinear.cgi

      • Dupin

        There are several other factors involved as well.

        Fiest, in the case of the New Testament “I am” it is by noi means clear that εγο ειμι can be taken as “I am.” There is something in Greek referred to by linguists as the “Perfect Indicative” tense which is used when an action began in the past and is continuing. This is acknoledged in a backhand way in the definition available at http://biblelexicon.org/john/8-58.htm, where the definitions include “have been” and “was.” The Peshitta interlinear, which you can go to here: http://www.peshitta.org/ , translates the Aramaic literally as “I was.” so if Jesus spoke in Aramaic on the occasion, as some believe and certainly was possible, then we see Jesus only made a claim of a prior existence, something the Pharisees considered blasphemous anyway.

        The verse in Exodus is mistranlated many believe because tere is no prsent indicative tense in Hebrew for the verb “to be.” It is either inferred by the context of sometimes in God’s word supplied with the partical “yesh bo,” which enjoys more use and currency in modern Hebrew.

        Those who study the issue deeply believe the word “ehyeh” in the clause “ehyeh asher ehyeh” means something more akin to the way the NWT translates it “I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be.” That form of the verb is considered causative with many several translators along the way favoring “I will be” ove I am.”

        What is so interesting is the point you brought up, the use in the LXX of ο ων. What is happening here is the use of a verb as a noun instead of it’s usual use. The implication of this is that the translators understood God to be declaring that he is the existing one, the only one who owes his existence to no one as he has life unto himself. That, my friends is a really loaded claim with lots of implications as to God and his power.

        As you pointed out, John had access to the LXX and probably knew this verse well. So the fact he didn’t use the same words in reporting Jesus’ words is very significant and seems to be carefully done to make it clear Jesus’ was not claiming to be God, as the context of the story clearly indicatesif one reads it objectively.

  • jacqueline

    Pastor David, I thought you were equating Br. Russell an us with Jehovah witnesses. Br Russell was not a JW at all. So I think perhaps you are commenting about the witnesses founded by Rutherford. I was a witness myself for 61yrs and glad to be freed. Take care

  • Captain Realism, speaks just like a lawyer and that is exactly what is wrong with the WT and other religions that follow law. This Guy speaks just like I did for 49 years as a WT ADHERENT. Rutherfraud was a 2bit lawyer who caused misery for Millions by his evil lie of Millions Now Living Will Never Die…my own family were victims of his lying deception.

    Colossians 2:16

    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

    All the Christians I know, do not celebrate a Pagan festival on the 25th December, they remember the birth of Yeshua.

    The Apostle Paul spoke about Lawyers and the difference between being saved by Grace and the false teaching of WORKS to earn salvation, because ALL our works are as filthy rags and the WT is full of filthy rags.

    By the way the Eastern men were Astronomers and were descended from people who believed what Daniel wrote in his book and these men were from Persia and were NOT spies, but genuinly recognised who Yeshua was and wanted to give him praise and worship.

    Philippians 2 tells us that EVERYONE will bend/bow the knee one day to Yeshua/Jesus Christ as he has been given the name ABOVE every other name in Heaven and Earth and under the Earth…How many WT followers bend the knee to our Lord and Saviour…none that I saw.

    The truth is simple and it is basically Yeshua, Born, Sacrificed and raised from the dead…if we believe in his name and that he has paid the price for our Sins then we are Born Again and safe in his arms. We do not need religion or any over baring know it alls who want to teach us mysteries that we do not need to know.

    I bless you all in the powerful name of Yeshua, the I AM the one who is and was and is to come, the Alpha & Omega

    Pastor David (Now a Missionary in Cyprus with my dear wife and exJW of 52 years)

  • Hello,and Christian greetings to all.I often wonder if the only God Jehovah looks down on us with all of our squabbling and thinks have you not noticed,” believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved”(said to the jailor as I am sure you all know). A lot of the rest of it I rather feel that we must leave in the hands of God Himself,re the various nuances,great company in heaven/on earth,the ransom for all sorts’ or all.
    No one knows (except Jehovah God and His anointed son our lord Jesus) who in there private chambers(whether or not they cling to the governing body for salvation)have prayed and accepted the ransom of our dear Lord into their hearts,and been made whole,able to come before the throne of heavenly in prayer with the antilutron of our Lord covering/ imputed to them.
    May Jehovah God bless you all through His anointed Son,our Lord Jesus.
    All believers in the ransom welcome,bro phil

  • Captain Realism

    You said “I think Christians can make their own decisions on the matter not an organization.”

    And I think that is right. Infact, we all make choices. When someone becomes a Witness, they understand that a true Christian wouldn’t mix falsehoods with truth. I believe the Society doesn’t tell them they can’t celebrate, but they say a true Christian wouldn’t. Something wrong with stating a fact?

    You also said “As far as sleeping with the United Nations I have to ask myself what would Jesus do? Would he endorse the UN in his journals so he could remain or be a recognized NGO.”

    This is an assumption. You have zero evidence that the AWAKE magazine talked about the UN simply for that purpose. Research what was said about the UN in the Watchtower during the 90’s and see how much support is given to the UN.

    Two things with regards to Christmas:

    1. Shepherds were told about the birth of the Christ. I think I would go see it too. No mention of cake here!

    2. You quote the “astronomers”, but in reality they were astrologers. Big difference. Maybe you should research that. Isaiah challenged the astrologers of his day. (Isa 47:13)

    Who else saw the star? Only the astrologers. Wow!

    Astrologers, good in God’s eye, or bad?

    • Jacqueline

      Captain, I am not at home now on the road but I will get the article for you it has all the religious leaders on the front meeting in the UN. (catholic, bishops ,sihks etc) We all discussed it in a field service meeting, elders made mention of the seemingly approval of their roll. I guess you were not in on all the hula when this came out. This is old and all the proof material is buried in pages but I will find that article or two next week. The UN was made aware of some of the nasty things said about them. They were only given the articles that I mentioned that showed them in a good light. A forked tongue indeed. For one I am glad Jesus and his parents had provisions to flee. The other stuff we could go on for days and days. This is straining out the gnat when there is a camel. Here is a proof of what can happen when you dictate on personal decisions. This is fresh and being talked about now so I will put the link.
      Rom 5:3,4 neither shameful conduct nor foolish talking nor obscene jesting things which are not becoming……
      Jas 5:14 Is there anyone sick among you, let them call the older men… On an individual bases to get help with any problem they may have.
      Children are encouraged to visit the official website of Jehovah witnesses now to download and interact with puzzles and what not. So Captain since you are speaking in their behalf perhaps you can help me explain this demoralizing video to deaf persons and what is wrong with the man and his obscene facial gestures and how did they allow this.
      This link was posted some time ago and I just couldn’t print it so I have copied and pasted:
      I have often talked about the desensatizing of the JW children. There should be thought given to any christian video and a disclaimer should be put on it for children. The JW official website should have put a disclaimer I feel and it also shows how much force is being exerted on the deaf community, that often can’t answer back as to how they feel about such an intrusion.
      Please scroll down to video #22, although this might be a correct presentaion, I just have a problem with it. Maybe it is just me! Press arrow in third column, takes a long time to load.
      Also. the comments on this same video although from parody site will give you a sense of what others are thinking. Can you defend this so I can accept this behaviour.

      If I am offending anyone by posting this video that has gone viral and people are all over it even in some news releases, I apologize beforehand. I am just trying to ask” What were they thinking?”

  • Captain Realism

    Jacqueline, I am serious.

    You talk like the angels and everyone celebrated the birth of Jesus and frankly, that is absurd and still no grounds for celebrating a formally pagan day dedicated to the Sun. Dec 25 is a lie. You can celebrate it, many do, that does not make it truth and we are to worship in spirit and truth. I see it’s not a big deal to you, but “he that is faithful in little”..you know the rest.

    The person I quoted about Jewish families, that was from a man named Josephus. He probably knew what he was talking about.

    Lastly, and least of all important, the UN thing. It has been beaten to death, but let me add my perspective based on facts:

    Watchtower registered with the DPI as an NGO. “Please note that association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status.”

    • Jacqueline

      Hi Captain, no I have never celebrated Christmas as I was born into the JW segment/Bible Student. It does not bother me if anyone else decides to remember him on Dec. 25th or in October. I have such a relationship with him now that all days are a blessing because of his death, faithfully. I think Christians can make their own decisions on the matter not an organization.
      As far as sleeping with the United Nations I have to ask myself what would Jesus do? Would he endorse the UN in his journals so he could remain or be a recognized NGO. I really don’t think they are going to be beheaded for that either as Jesus ransom can cover that misstep. The brothers (other anointed within the JW) have made sure they were exposed and that they pull out, although there is rumor that they are not quite free. But that is between them and God. Josephus, oh, maybe he was talking about adult birthday parties. What about scriptures understanding? Is there points where you see a major difference in understanding (diferent than JW) with the Bible Students. That is a subject that is important and the Bible can be a touchstone. Also I am sure some of the other brothers have a thought on this. I will hush and give them a chance. Thanks for writing Captain. If you post I will see it and respond. Take Care Dear Brother We are all in this together, on this planet and can’t get off.(:)

      BTW: Captain Read the account for yourself. The Angels were singing Peace on earth goodwill to all men. Shepherds were abiding in the field and went to see the baby as the angel said laying in manger.
      I have never heard of a birthday party with Angels singing and people leaving work to travel to see the baby. Mirth (?) and Frankincense, those were birthday gifts for the child. Read what the astronomers said “We saw His Star”. No doubt to provide for the journey and stay in egypt as Jehovah knew they would have to run. This star had nothing to do with the devil, the devil don’t give you gifts if you are of God he kills you. These astronomers were moved by God. Now that is another JW belief that neever made sense saying it was from the devil.

  • Captain Realism

    Three things:

    1. Jewish families didn’t celebrate birthdays as “the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess.”

    2. J.F. Rutherford wasn’t the “one” who said JW’s shouldn’t celebrate birthdays.

    3. Being an NGO doesn’t mean you are part of the UN. Just think about the name. Say it out load, United NATIONS.

    • Jacqueline

      Captain at first I thought you were serious, but #1 doesn’t make sense. Children birthday parties generally do not have liquor and shouldn’t a Christian know that getting drunk is wrong and not have to have occasions taken away from them to control their actions?
      Number 2: Jahovah witnesses do not celebrate birthdays as a group although some individuals do.
      Number 3′ NGO means the watchtower was a charter member of the United Nations as a Non Government Organization. They had to assimilate the ideas of the UN and have a mode to distribute this information. The Awake magazine was that mode and they made us a part of their sharing as we carried it from door to door. Do you remember the good articles on the United Nations and wondered as many of us did with their seemingly saying it was in league with the bringing in of God’s kingdom. A harlot indeed.

  • Captain Realism

    Allow me to correct this one-sided commentary.

    You state ” The doctrine is that the Lord came to his temple in 1918 and made a judgment as to who were actually his people. Jesus saw that the Watchtower Society was doing his work and thus they were accepted”.

    Not exactly a true comment. The book “”The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah” – How?” notes that “These dedicated worshipers, anointed with Jehovah’s spirit, were brought into a Babylonish captivity and exile during the world war of 1914-1918 and underwent a severe disciplining then.”

    So even certain ones of the Society were disciplined at that time. Jesus didn’t just say “ok, you are good Bible Students, they are bad ones, ger rid of them!”

    Infact the book later comments that the real issue was this: “In the spring of the year 1919 C.E. the faithful anointed remnant of Jehovah’s Christian worshipers were delivered from this Babylonish bondage and shook off the shackles of Babylon.”

    Shackles of Babylon. You probably are thinking “they became part of Babylon” with all that “organization” talk. Really though, shackles of Babylon are something that Bible Students, even modern ones just can’t shake off, and I don’t know why.

    God’s cleansed people must break from all forms of false religion, including their customs and false teachings.

    Christmas is a false teaching, a lie.

    The cross is an idol.

    The ransom is available for all, but not all will receive it’s blessings.

    Bible Student’s also accept the notion of being non-denominational. But even Pastor Russell said that “If the church with which you are connected, lives in adulterous union with the world, you must, if you would keep your garments white, leave her.”

    Brother Russell didn’t yet see the full range of influence of Babylon the great yet.

    What church isn’t in union with the World? One that doesn’t get mixed in their politics and wars. So to answer, the “true Church” isn’t in union with the World. Mixing with other religions is just wrong.

    Those kinds of changes would be hard to accept, no wonder so many left.

    • Jacqueline

      The watchtower society now says mature christians do not celebrate birthdays: Was Jehovah and the angels and shepherds a part of Babylon?
      Luke chapter 2 discusses the BIRTHDAY OF JESUS CHRIST. It says Angels sang, shepherds went to see him and upward of 2 yrs later astronomers (the wise men of that day) were still celebrating the birth and brought gifts. (We know this was to help Jesus and parents have a good start in egypt. But this is the biggest birthday party I have ever witnessed. The two other occasions mentioned with the exception of Job’s children, He wasn’t talking about the birthday but the events of that day. Christians may choose to celebrate or not celebrate. No one wants to be a slave to any celebrations. (Roman 14:5) Everyone has a birthday so the master controller Br. Rutherford put restrictions so he control every witness.
      Again even the watchtower organization says whether it was a cross or a stake it should not be venerated, They have to acknowledge they are possibly wrong on the manner of execution. The Bible Students don’t worship the cross it represents the suffering of Christ and how we will suffer for the name of Jesus.
      John 14:14 says if we ask in Jesus name; the watchtower says you can’t get to god unless you accept the governingbody. Matt 12:21 says in his name nations will hope. The governingbody says you must be a part of an organization to be saved.
      Bible Students that have accepted Jesus should not be involved in the politics of the day. I agree with you on that. Bro Rutherford wrote a letter to Hitler saying he (org) was not against him. When he took his property (org) then he turned against Hitler.
      The watchtower organization jumped in the bed with the united nations as an NGO.http://www.truebiblecode.com/understanding246.html
      So Captain freeing oneself from false religious doctrine separates Christ followers. Hellfire, Trinity etc, not celebrating birthdays because Jesus had a party. God never condemned birthdays at any of the 2 mentions the society uses.
      Jehovah allowed Jesus to be crucified on a crux. He could have chosen stoning or beheading but the manner was that he had to be hung up to take the curse away. Gal 3:13 simply says cursed is any man hung up on a tree which is where the 2 beams was taken as was Roman custom at the time.
      Brother Rutherford was a gruff man as the watchtower new DVD says and many didn’t like him. His organization still behaves like it founder Judge Rutherford, like the Sanhedrin the governingbody has a flock book that has more laws than the Law code. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0P5s5YtkFqFODE4ZmNjM2UtYzAxNi00YmIzLWI5MzEtZTcwYTExYTI0MmM2/edit?hl=no&authkey=CKHh4KkL
      Captain I will leave something for others to say. This is just how I see it. Thank you, Jacqueline

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