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34 comments to Topics

  • robin

    I think I have a unique involvement with JWs. I’m not a baptized member. My mother has been devout for over 20 years. I took never took interest, in fact her complete 180 attitude lead me to run away in my pre-teens. Coincidentally I met someone who was formally involved with JW’s. He was forced into baptism way too young he said. His father who is a JW minister or elder (I’m still confused about all the levels of status and hierarchy) had him disfellowshipped for infidelity after being rushed into marriage with another congregation member when he was 20 or 21. My partner had custody of 2 children when I met him, from a relationship after his divorce, he had no family support in any sense whatsoever, and eventually I took on the adoptive mother role with pleasure. At this point, in my mid 30’s, I started taking an interest in the faith. Today, I attend some meetings, even study with a pioneer on occasion. My partner has no problem with it but cautions me to be alert to their tricks. As a new student, I found the religion comforting and beautiful really. Although, I find it kind of odd that the people from the congregation I meet with and even my own mother, will clam up, put their hands together and look down whenever he is in the room. No hello, no nothing. I find it extremely rude, especially when my partner is nothing but super nice, respectful and even helps them out in some small way, and he doesn’t even get a simple thank you. Yet, his parents have no problem carrying on conversations with him or telling him what to do. Here is where I’m stuck. There are witnesses who are so humble and genuine, but then there are those who flat-out pompous, arrogant hypocrites. My mother is very simple and extremely brave, my partner and I have the utmost respect for her in her service she does. She ministers back on my home indian reservation full of destitute and desolate individuals where all kinds of evil live, a small place where murder is not uncommon. Then we have my partners parents, who live in an upscale suburb, with a garage full of classic cars, his father is so neurotic that no one can touch and if some one does its the end of the world. His mother only lives for dinner and tea parties, waging her tongue with people with money. I’ve forgiven my mother for all the childhood abuse and neglect, she is a residential school survivor, and I know we are not at fault for the intergenerational trauma. But I can’t help feeling resentment and bitterness towards my partners superficial parents. They spoil our children with lavious gifts all the time that usually end up being thrown out or given away by the girls themselves (our girls have grown up to be very modest and content with simpleness) and then they get very upset with us about it. They even forced themselves on our property to build a playhouse at a time when we said we were not ready for it, just so they can brag about it. We have a number of mutual acquaintances who inform us of all their boasting. I told my partners father once that if he really wanted to spend money on them, can he contribute to their RESP, to which he replied “is that really whats important?” I wanted to give a smart answer but I respectively bit my tongue. I don’t talk to the mother anymore after I was embarrassed after finding out she was telling all our personal matters to people she doesn’t know we know and I confronted her on it. She gave a weak apology then ran her mouth for half and hour about how she didn’t do anything wrong, slipping in scriptures here and there. The hypocrisy is getting out of hand and I finally expressed as politely as possible the truth as I see it. Well, now they avoid me like the plaque and bash about me to my partner. I’ve tried to reach out and even asked for their help in printing and lamenting the bible character cards I’ve seen on jw.org, but still haven’t gotten anything. Instead of cards, they get fairy wings and vampire dolls with indecent clothes and too much make-up. It’s getting to the point where I want absolutely nothing to do the faith, as much as that will devastate my mother. And not only that, I’m getting pushed over the edge with their ridiculousness, my partner and I are not married, and his parents two-faced involvement with our lives has been making me think of leaving. It’s all so sad and frustrating. I don’t know what to do and I don’t know who else to talk to. Any words of support or advice would be nice. Thank you.

    • Jacqueline (Bible student)

      Robin hello and welcome. You do indeed have a unique situation. I will get back to you in about an hour. I have a client right now.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Robin you are definitely a spiritual person and you go with what you know. We know that there is a hope factor in the Witnesses teachings but with a hook on the end. You seem to have seen it as a young person and ran away but having met another person that was a part of it you try to fit in. I do understand the emotions.
      And that is what it is. Your BRAIN is sending up alarm signals but your emotions are attached to the children, your boyfriend and maybe getting the approval of your mom a little more as you age. That is all normal. In fact it would be rational and a solution if you could do this. But you will lose yourself and 20 years out hate him, yourself and everything associated with the witnesses and maybe religion. It has happened when people are associated with a hierarchcy high control group and put GOD in it and it can make you doubtful.
      What you have described of the mixed signals and hypocrisy is what the religion is like in a congregation. IT IS WORSE however if you get in it by baptism and have to deal with the elders and the governing body.
      Do you feel it is the truth or have some truth? Do you feel you can get to God thru Christ? Do you feel you and your boyfriend can teach the children the simple stories of the Bible?
      This is important because the videos for children on that site is almost unnatural. The appeal and the way they do it is not right. Any parent giving in to that have to question whether or not they value the mind of their children. I see the thinking and reasoning of some of the children who’s parents really have them on that site. One relative forced her daughter to get baptized at 9 so her husband can be an elder. She pioneers and both seldoms keeps a job so they can go out in service, build kingdom halls etc to appear spiritual. They have had 10 homes in 12 years for the two little girls and now live in the basement of the parents.
      This is the elder and family put up as examples. We are waiting on the 13 year old to commit suicide or run away. 3 of the children in this family of sisters have tried to kill themselves. They are deep into the videos and child stuff on the site. Look and listen carefully to those videos and make a decision.
      You are really blessed to be able to question them.
      Since you are spiritual and I know you recognize the truth factor of some of what they say (although twisted) I invite you to read the subjects here. We can pick one and discuss it and let’s relate back to how the witnesses teach the same scripture. I think that is the best way for you to see the twist of almost evil to some teachings.
      And on the conduct of the mothers and members of the congregation, I am near Chicago in another country but they behave the exact same way. That is what the religion is like. It is not spiritual it is about cliches and money, control manipulation.

      Discuss these article with your boyfriend and then come back to see if you catch the twisting. http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/category/armageddon-2/
      Or choose a subject from the left that interests you. Or let’s just talk. Take Care Robin, for the children’s sake I hope you work this out because you have a working brain. Jacqueline

  • Ken(B.S.)

    Here’s something I found on the Net about Ezekiel’s vision of the Jehovah and the cherubs, and the wheels with eyes, this is the best explanation I found so far…http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/ezekielnotes.htm

  • Anonymous

    To all: I’m posting a copy of the Jw’s days text because I noticed something that isn’t quite right…let me know if you can identify it….Thursday, January 2

    Who the Father is, no one knows but the Son, and he to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.—Luke 10:22.

    Most people, whatever their beliefs, have pondered over questions related to God’s existence. However, when they failed to reach a satisfying conclusion, many eventually gave up on their search for God. Indeed, Satan has “blinded the minds of the unbelievers.” (2 Cor. 4:4) Little wonder that the majority of mankind are left in ignorance and confusion as to the truth about the Father, the Creator of the universe! (Isa. 45:18) Yet, it is vital that people learn the truth about God. Why? Because only those who call “on the name of Jehovah” will be saved. (Rom. 10:13) To call on God’s name involves becoming acquainted with Jehovah as a Person. Jesus Christ disclosed to his disciples this vital knowledge. He revealed the Father to them. w12 4/15 1:2, 3

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Anonymous -Is it that since Satan has blinded the unbelievers, why are they held accountable for not calling on the name of the Lord?  If blinded, how can they know the Truth?

      • Anonymous

        Exactly Peter K!! Years ago as a Jw I never would’ve caught that….amazing how easy it is to be blind!

        • Peter K. (admin)

          Anonymous – You sound unusually merciful for someone with a JW background.

          • Anonymous

            Peter K…LOL! Merciful indeed…yes I used to have the “us and them” mentality or “you worldly, you die, I Jw, I live” but not anymore, I can clearly see how so many people are ‘skinned and thrown about’ many through no fault of their own.If Jehovah is going to condemn people to gehenna at armageddon because they’re blind…that’s going to leave the door wide open for ‘what if’s and why’s’, if you know what I mean.

        • Jacqueline

          There is also method to the GB postings, a behind the scene so to speak.
          A letter was read last week exciting the cong on a new understanding of who Jehovah is. On Jan. 6th JW cong will began study of the “Draw Close to Jehovah booklet” the announcement made it seem that there is a BIB new discovery about Jehovah”s name and how to explain it to the public. I have had calls , text and on facebook, so Joe and I tracked it down.
          Instead of Jehovah meaning “He shall prove to be what he shall prove to be” Jehovah means “He causes to Be”. You would not believe the excitement of a single tidbit or drop of water the dear JW friends grasp for.So you see why their text for today is about Jehovah with such an explanation. It is a part of the game plan it seems for the start of the new discussion of the Draw Close Booklet.
          They fail to mention that in the millennium it will be possible to call on the name and get salvation because Satan will be abyssed.
          I think that would give a ray of hope to the friends instead of making it seem such a struggle. I mentioned to one of the JW that called me wondering if I knew what the neww thought was, that look at Jesus, and there is nothing that they can add about Jehovah that is not written. He does not seem to tell them the truth about him, they have to change every 2-3 years what they wrote. I have had 2 conversations with 2 witnesses on this this morning. It seems the flock is waking up but with so many simple questions on who to go to get forgiveness of sins. Most witnesses believe the elders have the power to forgive sins! This is a pity that THEY are the ones that don’t know God.

          • Anonymous

            Jacqueline, last night I printed out a copy of the updated Info. in the “Draw Close to Jehovah” book from the JW.org website… some of the words and sentences in chapter one is the only change. It seems to me some of the changes are made to cover their deriers..if you know what I mean:)

            • Jacqueline

              Why it caused such a stir is beyond me. Joe from christianwitnesses.com,others and myself had to dig to see what the excitement was about. You are right, people are going on the internet and finding out that other religions and scholars know that God knows everything and that he has revealed himself thru Christ and his dealings with the Jews. Their definition of his name has never made sense to me, it sounded like something Freddie Franz would write and I never could follow him when he gave talks.

              • Anonymous

                Jacqueline, I’ve heard some of his talks and didn’t like the way he spoke…..at all!

                • Jacqueline

                  But I do have to give him some credit, I got some of the best sleep of my life during his talks at the district conventions. My mom and all the adults worshipped him and we didn’t have to come in at all and sit down as there were no seats and the rule of children sitting with parents was not instituted. In the seventies my husband and all four of our children sleep thru the whole talk and we would just kid each other afterwards as many did the same. He was not for the masses only the intellectual could follow him. He and a Jewish Rabbi are alleged to have comprised the new world translation.

                  • Anonymous

                    LOL! A lot of the assembly talks today are definitly snoozers! I think I have my technique down though..I can sleep in a position where it looks like I’m paying attention:)

                    • Jacqueline

                      Yet, I have tried to see what is different as I attend BS conventions. I can’t go to sleep. The difference I found is they are directly in the bible, It is alive and teaches. You get to the point you learn how to do your job if you work for a corporation. Someone trains you, you have the little corporate manuels to follow like the Kingdom Ministry and corporate letters. Once you get that under your belt there is nothing to keep your interest at the conventions as it is organization rules that incorporate listening to the earthly representatives of Christ rather than going into the Bible which is alive. Witnesses are told by CO and elders to check what the society says on issues rather than what the bible says. I think people are beginning to wake up after they are learning on their computer, tablets and cell phones more about God.
                      There will be in 10yrs it is predicted more cell phones than humans on this earth. Third world countries can access the internet via cell phone.
                      What a grand provision for getting the truth about God and Jesus in their hands. Never would thought the Good News would have such an outlet.
                      I was told door to door was the only method but that method brings in members that are trodden down and the sold books to build an empire. The recent push to enforce not getting advanced learning won’t work. The friends are just bursting to learn and former nations isolated by religious fanatics can go in secret on the internet with a little phone or tablet. I believe Daniel 12 foretold this. These are exciting times indeed!

  • Anonymous

    Hi all, Luke 20:34-36 is about a conversation Jesus is having with the Sadducees(who believe there’s no resurrection)concerning whether or not the resurrected ones will be able to marry,Jesus says: “those resurrected in the coming age will be as angels in heaven and cannot die”. Now, the Jw’s teach that Jesus is talking about an earthly resurrection,however,how can that be if he says they’re like angels and can’t die? Any ideas out there??

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Anonymous – Let me suggest that in this story, neither the wife nor husbands would go to heaven, since they were under the Jewish Law and died (vs 32) before the heavenly call was not yet open (Heb 10:20).

      Luke 20:36 (NWT) says, “In fact, neither can they die anymore, for they are like the angels, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection.”

      The word “heaven” does not appear here. In what way are they like the angels? We are told, “neither can they die anymore” (vs 36) and “neither marry nor are given in marriage” (vs 35). These are the only two ways in which they are described as similar to the angels. Certainly mankind on Paradise earth will be similar in those two ways. How about the glorified to heaven 144,000 body members of Christ? They will be exalted far above the angels to Jesus side as His bride (Romans 2:7).

      Some have argued that mankind will get married and have children on Paradise earth. Hence this cannot be referring to mankind in the kingdom. Our question is, what evidence do we have that there will be marriage and child bearing on Paradise earth? Didn’t God say to Adam and Eve to “multiply and fill the earth?” Once that is accomplished are we to overpopulate the planet in Paradise earth by having children into the ages of eternity? I would not think so since Jehovah’s command had been accomplished.

      We know that the devil and his angels are destroyed by the end of the “Little Season” after the 1,000 years, along with all the wicked people (Matt 25:41; Rev 20:9-10). After that, “there will be no more death” (Rev 20:4). If children were born in Paradise earth perpetually, than how would Jehovah deal with millions of new untested people with free choice and them having to make a choice of good or evil? If they chose evil, would they not be in danger of death? Yet we are told that “there will be no more death.”

      • Anonymous

        Peter K.,excellent reasoning! That really makes sense.Any thoughts on Luke 20:35…specifically the words: “…the men and women who are worthy to rise from the dead and live in the age to come……”(GNB)What makes a person worthy of rising from the dead to live in the age to come?

        • Peter K. (admin)

          The trial of the Millennial age will be so complete and the lessons of obedience so well impressed upon men that only the “worthy” will attain to the condition of perfection (Matt 25:34, 46; Is 26:9; Micah 4:1-2; Rev 22:17). Extremely few, a “Little Flock,” are counted worthy to attain that world and the “better” resurrection (Heb 11:35) in advance of the Paradise Earth Kingdom. The great mass of mankind will come forth unto a “resurrection by judgment.” (John 5:29; Isa 26:9; Rev 22:14) It will remain for them to prove themselves worthy of perfect life.

          • Anonymous

            Peter K.,yes all that’s true but who are the ones WORTHY to have a resurrection into that “Paradise Earth Kingdom”?

            • Peter K. (admin)

              Anonymous – I can understand why some have the thought that “those counted worthy” would be the anointed Little Flock. Perhaps that is the correct answer. However, if that is correct, then Jesus never answered the question asked by the Sadducees, “Who’s wife will she be?” Why not? In my explanation, Jesus did answer the question by indicating that mankind will not marry in the Paradise Earth kingdom.

              In what sense would the expression “those counted worthy” apply to the world of mankind in the kingdom? This is a big topic covering many scriptures, however, in a nutshell, I believe the 1,000 years and Little Season following it (Rev 20) is a period of education, learning righteousness and the consequent trial and judgment. Here are some scriptures that talk about mankind being held accountable for their behavior and progress in the Paradise Earth kingdom.

              Mankind Judged by Their Future Behavior in God’s Kingdom

              Although many Christians believe that people will be judged based on whether they accepted Christ before they died, the Bible actually teaches that people will be judged based on their behavior, progress and decisions during the Millennium.

              Rev 20:12
              12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. NKJV

              Compare
              Matt 8:21-22 – Then another of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.“ But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.” NKJV

              Those awakened from the dead in the kingdom are still dead in the same sense as Lazarus who was awakened by Jesus. They will not be fully alive, fully resurrected, until they progress to both moral and physical perfection and are judged as loyal and obedient to the LORD.

              John 12:47-48
              47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
              48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him — the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. NKJV

              This is basically saying the same thing as Rev. 20:12, “the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.” The “books” are the books of the Bible and in the kingdom, mankind will be judged from the standards written in the Bible and spoken by Jesus.

              Matt 12:32
              32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. NKJV
              Personal judgment is in two ages & two classes, first on those who have the Holy Spirit during the Gospel Age, then on Paradise Earth when Jehovah pours his spirit on ALL flesh.
              Some would speak against the holy spirit in the next age. Who are these? Not the Church in heaven.

              Rev 22:14
              14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. NKJV

              This is not talking about those who did His commandments before the judgment time, but during the judgment time. Notice that at the very same time there are those outside the city are sinners (those not cooperating with and entering into God’s kingdom). Certainly no one is eating of the Tree of Life today. This opportunity is for mankind in the kingdom.

              Isa 26:9
              For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. NKJV

              Ps 96:10-13
              10 Say among the nations,”The LORD reigns;
              The world also is firmly established,
              It shall not be moved;
              He shall judge the peoples righteously.”
              11 Let the heavens rejoice, and let the earth be glad;
              Let the sea roar, and all its fullness;
              12 Let the field be joyful, and all that is in it.
              Then all the trees of the woods will rejoice before the LORD.
              13 For He is coming, for He is coming to judge the earth.
              He shall judge the world with righteousness,
              And the peoples with His truth. NKJV

              Ps 67
              God be merciful to us and bless us,
              And cause His face to shine upon us,
              Selah
              2 That Your way may be known on earth,
              Your salvation among all nations.
              3 Let the peoples praise You, O God;
              Let all the peoples praise You.
              4 Oh, let the nations be glad and sing for joy!
              For You shall judge the people righteously,
              And govern the nations on earth.
              (Not a time of fear and dread.)

              Ps 9:8
              8 He shall judge the world in righteousness,
              And He shall administer judgment for the peoples in uprightness. NKJV

              SHEEP AND GOATS

              Prior to 1998, the JW Organization held the view that the Matt 25 parable of the Sheep and Goats applied to their witnessing work from 1914 to Armageddon. From about 1998 to 2003, they transitioned to the view that this parable applies to the 1,000 years. Yes we welcome them back to the old light.

              In this parable of Sheep and Goats, we find more evidence that the “flaming fire” destruction of 2 Thes 1 does not apply only to Armageddon, but beyond, is found in Matt 25 in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. There are at least three striking similarities between these two passage that illustrate they are covering the same time period.

              1) Jesus comes with his holy messengers (2 Thes 1:7; Matt 25:31)
              2) FIRE is associated with the destruction (2 Thes 1:8; Matt 25:41)
              3) The destruction is EVERLASTING (2 Thes 1:9; Matt 25:41, 46)

              Let’s look more closely at each of these 3 examples.

              EXAMPLE #1:
              2 Thes 1:7 (NWT) “the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels”

              Matt 25:31 (NWT) “When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him”

              EXAMPLE # 2:
              2 Thes 1:8 (NWT) “in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who… do not obey”
              Matt 25:41 (NWT) “Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire”

              EXAMPLE # 3:
              2 Thes 1:9 (NWT) “These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction
              Matt 25:41, 46 (NWT) “these will depart into everlasting cutting-off”

              1) Jesus comes with his holy messengers (2 Thes 1:7; Matt 25:31)
              2) FIRE is associated with the destruction (2 Thes 1:8; Matt 25:41)
              3) The destruction is EVERLASTING (2 Thes 1:9; Matt 25:41, 46)

              We see that the Parable of the Sheep and Goats is covering the same time period as Jesus coming in flaming fire taking vengeance. Consequently, if the parable of the Sheep and Goats parable applies to the 1,000 years, then so must the flaming fire destruction of 2 Thes 1:6-10, not just to Armageddon.

              Other verses in the Bible promise a future hope for the unbelieving world. Even the wicked will be resurrected from the dead. Some will become sheep and others goats.

              1 John 2:2 – “He is an atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. – Weymouth

              Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for the whole world too. No exceptions are given.

              1 Tim 4:10 – God… is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. NKJV

              God is not only the savior of believers, but also of all men. No exceptions are given.

              John 1:29 – “John …said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! NKJV

              No exceptions are given.

              So the Bible holds out a future hope of life for all people, even the worst sinners.

              • Anonymous

                Wow! What can I say Peter K….THANK YOU!! You’ve been very heplful in my understanding of scriptures. There was a time when I never had many questions about the Bible,if I did, I’d be satisfied with just a simple explanation or just putting it in the back of my mind. Since I’ve received the heavenly calling, simple explanations aren’t enough…..I have an unending thirst for truth and knowledge and the Bible student books have been of tremendous help with that!

          • Anonymous

            Peter K. thanks for your patient help in awnsering my questions. I discovered an excellent resource for questions at the Biblestudent.com website it allows you to find an explanation on every scripture of the Bible.

  • doug

    High expectations is something we must except,we cannot lower Gods standards to our level as sinners, therefore we must look up to Jehovah God and except his word as it is, and not misinterpret it according to our needs and wants,(may Jehovah forgive me if I am wrong)
    d

  • doug

    Peter, I see the new translation revision 2013 of J W is out have you seen it. (the cover is light gray.)

    • Jacqueline

      This Jacqueline, I have two of them and the app is out. A Baptist and I compared it and two other translations as we discussed hellfire. It is very user friendly. We have a list of changes in previous comments on the ask Jacqueline page. We also have one of the errors listed that should be corrected at next printing.

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Doug – Here is a link to the 2013 Revised New World Translation: http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/

      This link is great. It is very user friendly. It is easy to find scriptures, then to click on reference notes for comments or related passages. I have not had enough experience with it yet to offer an opinion. So far I am happy with it. Do you have any thoughts about the translation that you would like to share with us Doug?

      • doug

        yes Peter I agree with you it certainly is very user friendly,considering that I have been using the 1981 version of the N W T, I live in Africa and the Bible (here in afrikaans or you can say Dutch) has been revised many times and the people has never ever complained about it.( What their Church say’s and does has always been excepted) Mind you i was very surprised
        when i logged onto the internet and found that there were so many groups in the U S A that really understood the scriptures I spend many hrs daily reading as much as i can, God bless.

  • Ken

    Read this article and tell me what it reminds you of……http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_House_of_Justice

    • Jacqueline

      Thanks for the link Ken. I read it and it is just like the governingbody exactly almost. But most organizations are like that if religious. They believe they are ruling already on the earth and are authoritative instead of waiting on the new world where people will have to submit to Christ and the Princes in the earth. I am enjoying the discussion on the book of Daniel. There is an adobe connect for it. Jeff is here also. He can give you the link. Take care

  • Simon

    Hello,
    I have a question. Did Pastor Russell teach it was ok to pray to Jesus and give him relative worship, even though we know the Trinity is wrong?

    Thanks
    Simon

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Simon – Pastor Russell never said we should pray directly to Jesus that I am aware of. In referring to a miracle performed by the Apostle Peter, Brother Russell said, “This miracle is done in Jesus’ name–in the name of the Redeemer who has died for the sins of the world.” R5838: page 27. He also said, “we should ask pardon, confessing our sorrow, and then confess our fault at the Throne of Grace, asking forgiveness in Jesus’ name.” R5757 : page 263

      I am not aware of any scriptures that say we should pray directly to Jesus. Although I would not consider such a view a Trinity proof, I can see how some would get confused.

      Although, Jehovah is the one we worship, his son, as his representative has also received worship, however, neither should this be a proof of the Trinity. In Matt 2:11 the wise men from the east worshiped Jesus. Hebrews 1:6 (NASV) says, “And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, ‘AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.'”

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