Romans 8:28 promises, “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.” NASV.  All of us desire to be close to our God Jehovah and his son, Jesus Christ.  We long for their comfort, guidance and encouragement in our lives.  We are promised in Isaiah 26:3, “You will keep him in perfect peace, Whose mind is stayed on You, Because he trusts in You.” NKJV.  Yet when difficult and harsh experiences come, we sometimes feel alone and afraid.  In Hebrews 13:5 we read, “God Himself has said, “I will never, never let go your hand: I will never never forsake you.” Weymouth.  You are not alone.  Your heavenly Father and his Son are watching over you.  You are not alone.  There are others like you who have experienced hard trials and difficult experiences.  Take some time to share with us.  To tell your story.  To encourage others.  That is what this Testimony section is for.

519 comments to Testimonials

  • Nycole

    I am so thankful to the Lord. I decided to consecrate my life to the Lord and I wasn’t sure if this decision would cause issues with a dear friend that I considered a mother. I studied the bible with this person when I was a JW and after learning the truth, I felt like I was living a lie. I had been praying about whether or not to tell her about my upcoming water immersion, but was unsure how to go about the conversation. Today my prayers have been answered. I called this person and we got into a bible discussion. I listened to her and kept slient, but then she said “well, at least that person won’t be here on the paradise earth in the new system” I thought that was a horrible thing to say. At thay point, I couldn’t keep quiet. I quickly said a short prayer for the Lord to please give me the right things to say because I don’t want to get into a arguement nor do I want this conversation to affect my husband’s employment. Long story short, I was guided by holy spirit and able to do what Proverbs 15:1 says.The conversation continued for an hour more of using the bible to examine our preconceived ideas. To my surprise, the conversation had a positive ending. I don’t know what effect this has on the person I was talking to, but I’m thankful for the Lord given me his holy spirit to do what I thought to be impossible.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Nycole, I am so happy this had an acceptable ending. I think you were right in hitting it early on in your journey instead of having it creep up thru out the years. I know she will remember some of what you said and may even go to a Bible student website and look for herself.
      I was listening to a talk on the App “Christian Resources” and the speaker said you have to meet the devil head on and stand up to him. If you cow down he pounces like a roaring lion. He gave examples of Jesus encounter with him and his encounters with others while on earth.
      As you mentioned, you kept quiet first. You used your ears for listening not hearing, prayed then answered under the power of God’s Holy Spirit, HIS help. I am learning from you, Yuna, Linda and Just stay sweet. Welcome as you embark on your new life and I hope to make it to your upcoming immersion.
      I am leaving today for the “Olde Harvest” convention and get some much needed fresh air out under the sun and the stars at night. I love this convention. I think I will feel better this year and can get on the Hay ride. (Had a toe injury last year. boo hoo).
      Hopefully next year you and your family can come and let the children enjoy the treehouse and the huge farm and sing songs of praise under the stars.

  • Richard

    I am a 74 yrs old male who was d’fd in1975. The person I was 42 yrs ago, obviously is not the person I am today. Have attempted in recent years, to return to the Kingdom Hall, but became discouraged and discontinued any involvement with the organization. Since then I discovered Bible Students, and have begun experiencing a new hope that there actually is life beyond the WTBTS… having said that, I have no clue what to do because there are no known Ecclesias in my area. I confess that I have been attending Evangelical denomination near me, ut feel empty… need direction please? Thanks. pianoart75

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Hello and welcome Dear Richard. Don’t even worry about attending with people that know about and love Jesus. The systems of religion will fall but there are some of God’s Saints in these systems and many believers in Christ. I bet you have a lot of experiences to tell us.
      Have you asked about students in your area already? I have your city and will pass on to Br. Peter right away!
      But I wish you had come on with us tonight by phone. You have landed in the right place. Many that leave the organization leave God but you kept your spirituality. When the brothers awaken in the morning they will see your comment and I will get this city over to Br. Peter now.
      Isn’t the internet and phone a blessing from God? We can communicate and become close knit by theses means. There are conventions going on where you can see the brothers also. Welcome and wait until morning. In Christ, Jacqueline

    • Ted R.

      Hi Richard
      Welcome to the website. You have come to the right place. I found the Bible Students just a few months ago, after 48 years as a JW. Most of my interaction has been through the internet or phone. I have an ecclesia in my area but we have our meetings on the phone. The nearest meetings I can attend are nearly 2 hrs away. Let me share my schedule with you. Monday night there is a Christian Questions Internet Radio broadcast sponsored by the Brethren. Tuesday night there is a internet meeting held by Chicago Bible Students. Wednesday this site has an internet meeting, Thursday Columbus Bible Students (ABSCO) has a call in meeting, and Sunday I attend the Akron Ohio phone in or Chicago Bible Students Internet Broadcast. When I cant get on a meeting due to my circumstances I go to YouTube Channel BibleTruth411. There is also an app for your phone called Bible Resources. You can find information on most of these here on the website. Sister Jacqueline or Brother Peter can help you. You can see there is no shortage of spiritual food.
      I just returned from the General Convention where I symbolized my consecration by being re-baptized. The love I saw while I was there was unbelievable. My situation is a little different than yours. I have not been DF’d and my wife was raised a JW. I am forced to attend meetings covertly. Due to my wife’s health issues I am unable to completely disassociate myself from what I term “the dark side.” I am slowly fading, missing more meetings, not going in field service, not commenting at meetings. I envy you that you do not have to worry about these things. Keep on seeking, you have found the help you need. Agape Bro Ted

      • ZionsHerald


        It was great to meet you at the General Convention. I hope we will have more opportunities of fellowship in the future.

        Your devotion to your wife who continues to be an ardent follower of the JW faith is a good example for those who know you of the Scriptural commandment to care for your wife even though the two of you are unequally yoked (2 Corinthians 6:14; 1 Corinthians 7:12).

        Ted gives examples of many spiritual outlets available at this time for those who are isolated or isolated due to the conditions that Ted must endure as he attempts to fade. While there are many more avenues for spiritual outlet, Ted’s list is a good place to start.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Richard we also have a class in New Hampshire.
      Could you tell us your story of how you found us, please. Most of the xjw brothers are on our Wednesday night study until they get settled in. But you will be okay, we will help you.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Warm Greetings to you, Richard.

      It’s so wonderful and encouraging to hear from you. Surely it must have taken some courage, or determination, or perhaps desperation to comment here. I’m kind of worried that my (our) enthusiasm might be a little overwhelming to you. Still, I’m sure I speak for many others when I say that we feel a real sense of eagerness to warmly demonstrate real love towards all of the little sheep of Jesus who, like you and me and many others here, have been skinned and thrown about over the years.

      I was born and raised a JW, but started having serious objections to what JW’s taught as far back as the mid 1980’s. I’ve been thrilled to have finally found the Bible Students after many years in a kind of “Isolated Limbo.”

      So may I welcome you warmly, sincerely, and profusely, from the bottom of my heart. I’m so glad to make your acquaintance. The wonderful friends here are so kind, caring, loving, compassionate, and gently supportive. What a blessing!!!

      Please, feel free to share with us as much or as little as you are comfortable. Take it as slowly -or as quickly- as you feel comfortable. A great many of us have been oh so lonely, oh so isolated, and frequently despised, criticized, and shunned, so we are intimately acquainted with pain and trepidation.

      There are many fine resources listed here on the sides of the pages. Personally, I love listening to the recorded discourses from past Bible Student conventions. We can give you links to literally hundreds of mp3 files if you’re interested. I also enjoy the monthly edition of The Dawn Magazine. Mmmmmm. Delicious Spiritual refreshment. I am also personally studying through Volume 4 of the Studies in the Scriptures, and I lead a weekly Bible Study in Volume 1 with a friend and neighbor.

      Please, do take care not to over eat at this bounteous table. I know from personal experience it’s so very easy to do. 🙂


    • Dundee

      Hi Richard..if you would stay in attendance at the kingdom hall & meet with the elders as they ask you probing & very personal questions on why you were dfed & how long it has been since you’ve attended…I’m certain that they would have you attend EVERY meeting while everyone shuns you for definitely over a year, but most likely close to 5 years. Works befitting repentance now is being on the dot org web site & watching the Jw broadcast tv channel, if you do those things God is more like to forgive you, i mean the elders..LOL You will need to jump thru hoops, arrive 20 minutes early & just sit there alone. Linger afterwards while no one will make eye contact with you till your heart is broken&crushed. It takes so much energy to go thru that as an adult. I’m glad to hear that you’ve maintained your love of God despite your experience with them. The organization has gone thru so many changes, its not recognizable to some degree. Many live in fear because if they leave, they will never see their jw family & friends again. Lord bless you

    • Richard Tazzyman

      Hello Richard,I am a ex JW,68Years old.I was a witness for over 40 years,& I found the bible Students in 2010,& have never looked back.I live in Australia & would love to hear from you.You can e/mail me on rtazzyman@dodo.com.au.Christian Love,Richard.Tazzyman

  • Dundee

    Hello Everyone!
    Its been like 3 1/2 years since my departure from JW’s.
    While it was an emotional roller coaster…i can understand more clearly the Bible where it says “u will know the Truth & the Truth shall set u free!”
    For those of u who are waking up now & recognizing something is wrong & that u desire to leave..recognize that Hindsight is 20/20 vision. I went thru the most horrendous experiences inside what we used to refer to as the Society but now the Org.Each & every one of my unique experiences from Threats to physical & psycological abuse, to statements published in the literature that were in conflict with Gods inspired word ..to what i experienced in elder meetings watching them laugh at ppl behind the scenes & plot to set ppl up…or when i would mention Jesus & their eyes would roll or launch a vicious attack on me just by them hearing his name..was very much needed for me to see the exit sign & make my exodus when i just could not take another day past my 40 years in. My hindsight is crystal clear why those things happened.I took along my mother & children.But I’ve had 2 say goodbye to a father heavily indoctrinated with hate.Lost my wife who was my best friend& ppl i knew my whole life who now shun me & i’m not even Dfed..just faded from being visible from their sights & dont report my activities to the elders who would Lord it over & bully me.Yet i would say that i’m more active now in these 3 1/2yrs than i’ve been in those 40.Be brave for it takes courage to interact with sum pharasees that will want your head on a platter.If u need help to exit, Sister Jacqueline gave me wonderful advice that i’ve been still having to use all these 3 1/2 yrs as they refuse to totally leave me alone.Elders still call me to make inquiry before the CO’s visit so they can appear as if they r shepherding the flock of God. Listen to that figurative voice behind u saying “This is the way”.Be not like Lots Wife looking back. God is calling you to come out! But there is an art to leaving.

    • Lincoln

      Dear Dundee, Thanks for your testimonial here. I know Jacqueline does a good job here to help people and she appears to me as a very clever sister.

      Hopefully you will find a way to have your family around you and be happy in the future.

      I cannot say much to you, but I wish you, all the best and Jesus blessing to you.

    • greg (Bible Student)


      Thank you for sharing this with us, with me. Your story resonates very powerfully with me.

      I want to express to you how conflicted my emotions are at reading your words. One part of me aches acutely along with your pain. Another part of me admires and is encouraged by your endurance. And still another part of me wants to thank you sincerely for expressing yourself because I found it very validating to hear you speak about the set-ups and the contempt the other elders had for the flock. I was on the receiving end of some of the set-ups and scoffing and contempt of the local elders here.

      I know from your words that we share many similar experiences and sadnesses. However, one particular pain you mention is that you also lost your wife, your best friend, during your exodus. Oh, my dear brother, that must have been so excruciating for you. I was fortunate in that my wife remains by my side, remains my best friend through it all. I cannot imagine how I might have coped if I’d lost her.

      So I want to acknowledge that if just imagining such a loss is painful to me, how much more so it must have been in reality for you. I was always grateful that I never had to endure the kind of “bonus suffering” that Job had to contend with from his wife, and that you, my dear friend, have had to endure.

      The Dawn Magazine for July 2017 had this to say on 17, “Nearly all the persecutions of Jesus, his apostles, and consecrated followers throughout the Gospel Age, have come from professed servants of God.” That has certainly been true in my case, as it seems to have been in your case, too, Dundee.

      Thank you, and I pray that God and Christ Jesus will continue to nudge you, little by little in the way in which they direct, as I gain great peace from sensing that familiar, reassuring, and gentle nudging in my own life.


      • Dundee

        Thank you Greg. I’m amazed that EVERY 1 of my problems in my life have been from JW’s. I lived in a constant state of Terror! I remember my very last day with them. I had enough!! My life was in danger. Every meeting i attend i’m called in the back room. That was it for me! Then to overcome the mental mind games that there is no life outside the org. But there is a life, not the same life, but still a life nonetheless. Inside our experiences were not acknowledged but here we are validated as true. Atleast we have survived. There are others not as strong. Sometimes i’ve missed the social interaction of face to face at gatherings…However…i remember 2 elders coming over to me separately & asking how i was, i told them & they literally walk away. They in particular were so disconnected. The others were just drones. The conversations were always a set up…what did you think of the latest WT?Did you read the new release? What is the name of the new release? Brother i’m bleeding….answer…what days do you go out in service? Nah i don’t miss that social time, raw hamburgers & food poisoning after their BBQ’s & always uncooked chicken at some gathering. LOL Losing my wife was an adjustment. I can smile about it now, but during that time, my eyes were filled with tears. She cheating on me, all in support & the elders wanting us to break up. I’ve accepted it & have adjusted. I saw the elders turning her like Anakin Skywalker turning to Darth Vader. Now she is full blown within the Dark Side of the Force. There is a deep evil there that when I come in contact is just not of my sort. It is better that we are apart, that is my hindsight kicking in. An uneven yoke as she worships her 7 golden calves in NY. I’m reminded what it says in Psalm 146 about following men & why we should not. The elders had recently tried to meet with me, & I called them out on it. I told them i know all their tactics, that i was once them being trained to do the very thing, but that i wanted no part of. Then i tell them to speak the truth, that I’m aware of Theocratic or Spiritual Warfare Strategy, being allowed to lie. They stay silent which to me is their guilt cause they are trying to expel my family if they could.There isn’t anything I’ve done wrong. Its funny how they just won’t stop hounding me. Asking private questions. I ask them if they are familiar with the U.S.Constitution? Silence. If they’re familiar with the Laws, again no answer while they trespass on property, loiter on the front porch, leave voicemails threatening me, private messages via fb that i have no future, emails & text messages of religious terrorism. I would say they have a form of Godly Devotion but prove false to its power. I can only pray for them, Jesus says we should.

        • greg (Bible Student)


          You wrote: “I can only pray for them, Jesus says we should.”
          I respond, “Amen.”


          I’ll add that my prayer for many years now has been, “Jehovah, help me love even those who are difficult to love.”

          And yeah, sometimes JWs really do find incredible ways of making it difficult to love them. Remembering that “Jesus died for them, too” often helps, although it can still be nearly impossible to “imagine the person God intended” when all you can feel is the sting of their venom. So many of them really don’t do anything to endear themselves to you, do they?

          My son taught me the truthfulness of the notion that “whenever a person is acting in a way that makes them most unloveable, that’s when they most need our love.” It’s tragic, isn’t it, that often their behaviour almost guarantees they won’t receive the love they are hoping for, wanting, craving, desperately needing.

          I draw so much from your expressions. I thank you for them. It helps deepen my resolve to continue to be long-suffering, patient, and benevolent towards even my worst “enemy.”

          Perhaps I’ve mentioned this here before, but in case I didn’t, I like an ancient proverb that says, “Understand your enemy and you can defeat him. Understand yourself and you’ll have no enemies.” And another that says, “I’ve never met a man so ignorant I couldn’t learn something from him.”

          At the risk of sounding like someone who recently had far too much say while saying far too little of any value here on the FoJW website, I want to quote Pierre Teilhard De Chardin:

          “Humanity has been sleeping-and still sleeps-lulled within the narrowly confining joys of its little closed loves. In the depths of the human multitude there slumbers an immense spiritual power which will manifest itself only when we have learnt how to break through the dividing walls of our egoism and raise ourselves up to an entirely new perspective, so that habitually and in a practical fashion we fix our gaze on the universal realities.”

          The Apostle Paul said it this way:

          “Our affection for you is not restricted, but you are restricted in your affections for us. Now as a fair exchange – I speak as to my children – open wide your hearts to us also.” – 2 Cor 6:12-13 NET

          The MSG version puts the same passage thus: “We didn’t fence you in. The smallness you feel comes from within you. Your lives aren’t small, but you’re living them in a small way. I’m speaking as plainly as I can and with great affection. Open up your lives. Live openly and expansively!”

          Much love to you, my friend and brother,

  • Nycole

    Hello. My name is Nycole and this is my story. I’m an ex JW. I had been a witness for 6 years. I married a JW and within a year and a half he walked away from the organization. My son and I continued to attend the kingdom hall for months. During that time, the witnesses stopped associating with my son and I. We weren’t being called on to comment and the elders would only speak with me concerning my husband. For months, I tried to get my husband to return to the kingdon hall, but he would try to explain to me about how they were an organization run by men and they were not following the bible teachings. Immediately, I thought he lost his mind. Often, he would ask me biblical questions and then show me information from the JW’s publications that didn’t coincide with the bible. I was so afraid that he would lose his life, that I didn’t want to see the truth he presented.I began looking up inforamtion on my own and noticed that some of what the organization taught wasn’t scriptural, but I feared my families life. My disappointed occurred when an elder threatened to fire my husband if he stopped being a JW. I was so devastated by his lack of love that I didn’t want anything to do with the organization. I knew he wasn’t following what he taught from the platform by his words and actions. I had stopped all spiritual interest and became bitter. My husband, Lee Anthony had been associating with the bible students for months. He would try to encourage me to not give up on Jehovah and Jesus. I was so angry that I would leave the room when he played bible sermons and taunt his beliefs. Soon, I noticed that my atitude didn’t affect his worship because he continued his spiritual routine. Months had passed and he seemed happier than when he was a JW, which infuriated me. So after several more months of feeling hopeless, I decide to listen to a couple of his talks, which weren’t discrediting the JW’s as I expected. Months later, I decided to attend a convention, only to check things out. I wasn’t going to get to involved with the bible students because I didn’t want to be hurt again. Too my surprise, one of the sister’s allowed my family to stay at her home without formally meeting us. Jacqueline was gracious and kind, as were the brethren at the convention. I truly enjoyed myself and felt the love of the brethren. After the convention, Jacqueline agreed to take time from her busy schedule to assist me in understanding the bible. I’ve been studying more, listening in on the weekly meeting, and my husband has been very patient with my questions as I try to make sense of previous learned information. My family doesn’t have an ecclesia near, but the Lord has provided us with fellowship from the brethren. I was a JW for 6 years and I did what I thought I had to do, following men. Now, after learning the truth, I have a real desire to follow the Lord and I can feel Him guiding me to wisdom and understanding one step at a time. I truly thank the Lord for not giving up on me and giving my husband the patience to endure my persecution. I use to get frustrated from time to time, because of my experience with the witnesses, but what has helped me is knowing that soon the knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth.

    • greg (Bible Student)


      I’d would like to thank you sincerely for sharing this. I have tears flowing down my cheeks and I need to blow my nose. 🙂 Thank you!

      I am tempted to say more, but anything I might say would only be about my story, and would likely detract from your story. I found your expressions very precious, exquisitely worded, and I was deeply touched. I find myself filling up with compassion, caring, joy, and hope.

      Several times while reading I found myself nodding in full agreement, remembering my own journey. I was especially moved when you said, “I have a real desire to follow the Lord and I can feel Him guiding me to wisdom and understanding one step at a time. I truly thank the Lord for not giving up on me…”

      What you said so powerfully echoes much of my own experience, I am constantly struggling to hear those words as yours, as describing your story, your picture. My own images, my own pictures, my own stories keep coming to mind, keep threatening to squeeze you out of my mind’s focus. I’m struggling to keep you in focus.

      What a blessing that you and your husband are again united in mind, heart, spirit, and purpose.

      Thank you for expressing yourself just the way you did.

      I am sincerely grateful and encouraged,

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Nycole, I am moved!!! Your posting has come at the right time. I am under the pressure you exerted on Lee and need to answer my family this morning.
      JEHOVAH SENT YOU TO HELP ME UNDERSTAND MY SON! He loves me deeply but now I know what he is thinking through your eyes.
      OH THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HOLDING YOUR COMMENT UNTIL THIS DAY! I haven’t slept wondering how to answer his text to me after he left from caring for me and my medical issues.
      You have helped me. Wow! What a God only He knew I didn’t understand.
      Tell us more about your beautiful son and what he is doing.
      Many here need to hear that story, it is grand.

    • Dundee

      I am speechless how the Lord found him & YOU!
      Thank you for sharing this beautiful story.

  • greg (Bible Student)

    Hello Everyone.

    I’m struggling. Really struggling right now.

    Not only am I grappling with a painful, complex, and challenging situation, it is further complicated because I am really struggling to even find words to adequately describe and communicate that struggle. And it is that inability to communicate my experience that is probably the biggest part of my current struggle.

    Jacqueline had no way of knowing how tough my present situation has been for me when she said in an email a few days ago, “Let us know whats going on with you please on the site… We all have trials today.” I’ve prayerfully taken her words to heart, and I’ve mustered all the courage I can find so as to try to express myself as clearly as I am able.

    If you search the internet, you can locate a transcript (derrickjensen DOT org) of Derrick Jensen’s interview of Judith Herman (circa 1998) entitled, “Out of the Ashes: An interview with Judith Herman, Violence and Its Aftermath”. It’s a relatively short read, but it really does seem to encapsulate everything that I’d like to try and express. I’d highly encourage you to find and read it, if you’re so inclined, especially if you find yourself struggling to escape some form of captivity, or struggling to be heard clearly, or simply trying to put some kind of past trauma behind you.

    In the interview Judith Herman said, “when people are finally able to put their experiences into words in a relational context, where they can be heard and understood, they often get quite a bit of relief.” And so I am choosing to share a glimpse of my struggle for two reasons: 1) perhaps I might obtain a small measure of relief for myself, and more importantly 2) perhaps I might help someone else to find the words they need to better understand, process, and communicate some of their story, and thereby derive some relief, validation, or encouragement.

    I pray and trust that if I subsequently say anything untrue, improper, or ungodly, God and Christ will overrule it knowing the spirit and intention behind my attempt. Still, I will strive to choose my words carefully, prayerfully. I sincerely hope my words will be received as a gift given in the spirit of caring and understanding, and not be viewed as a rant, nor as a request, for I do offer them as a gift, and make request only that you reflect on them, take them to heart, and then perhaps find a way to both expand and demonstrate your love for still others. To again quote from the interview with Judith Herman, she says, “When people go through mourning, and through their crisis of faith, what they come back to as bedrock is their own capacity to love.”

    Ok, moving onward…

    My mom has been battling cancer for over 4 years. All that can be done now is to keep her comfortable and manage her pain. Late last week she was placed in the Palliative Care unit and she is expected to die at any time. My parents and I are not close. Neither am I close to my only brother. I was always the odd one in the family, the black sheep–at least in their eyes. So we haven’t been close for several decades now. To be very honest about it, I said my goodbyes to my parents and my brother silently in my heart many years ago when I came to realize I needed to mourn the loss of a relationship I could never have with them.

    But all of this is NOT the presenting issue. The fact that my mom is dying is only one ingredient in the recipe. My being somewhat estranged is likewise just one more ingredient. What is now playing out is merely a set of events that have been long-anticipated, and that I always knew would bring to the forefront many OTHER related issues. Issues like, when is it a good time to tell them that I won’t be going to mom’s memorial at any Kingdom Hall? How do I say it? How do I explain it? Do I even bother to try? I get exhausted by the sheer number of choices that I constantly face.

    I had a very painful childhood. I lived in a JW house filled to overflowing with “Godly-Violence”, contradictory messages, twisted logic, and distorted ideas about what it means to give and receive love. It took years of therapy to recover. After coming to understand myself and getting to a place where I could say I had sufficiently healed, I worked at understanding and coming to love my parents. I came to appreciate that they too had experienced painful upbringing’s, traumas of their own, and had been misshaped by their own toxic parents, tragic circumstances, learned ignorance, and life choices. I worked long and hard to find it in my heart to see them as deserving of my compassion and kindness, as being human, just like me, and as having had a difficult time escaping cultural programming and various kinds of prejudicial influences.

    So I can honestly say that I’ve long since forgiven them even though I still pay a heavy price for their choices and their exceedingly painful mistakes which they’d still happily make again, albeit with the same and very best of intentions. I think that’s a small piece of the worst part of what I’m going through now: knowing and expecting that they’d repeat all the same mistakes again, mistakes that actually hurt ALL of us. I know and expect they really would do it all the same, painful way again because 1) they have always told me they would, always justifying themselves in the process, and 2) I’ve both seen and experienced it repeatedly over the years.

    The problem isn’t with their intentions. The problem lies in the impact of their attempts to express their good intentions. Put somewhat brutally, they give gifts that seem to be good for them, but without regard to how incredibly painful those gifts are for me, the recipient, or even to themselves! And they’re quick to hear criticism, judgement, and ingratitude if I even say “Ouch!” So that sets in motion a dynamic spiral of pain whereby they create pain, and I dare not speak about it for it will only ultimately add to my pain. Yet not speaking up about it only allows it to continue unabated. It’s a bizarre form of captivity wherein I choose to play dead while the grizzly bear mauls me, hoping that it will more quickly lose interest in me, and leave me all the sooner, hopefully before causing even greater harm.

    But in way, by consciously choosing not to make my own situation worse, I still do make it worse. At the very least, I am permitting them to continue to make it worse. Keeping it all straight in my own mind and heart isn’t easy. Why am I not defending myself? Why am I not reacting? Why am I even willing to voluntarily re-enter the arena with the lions in the first place? Who can I go to so as to debrief and make sense of all the pain–mine and theirs? When my heart is no longer able to absorb nor cushion any more hurt, how do I make more space so as to cradle BOTH our hurts? Where do I go that I’m not invisible? Who is my tangible support person, my beacon, my lighthouse, my north star in all of this? Where do I go when I need an anchor and cannot find one, when I need to be thrown a lifeline, when I’m drowning and can no longer call out for help, and when I simply need an understanding hug? In times like this I can really begin to appreciate the pain behind Jesus’ words when he cried out, “My God! My God! to what end, didst thou forsake me?” -Mark 15:34 EBR

    And even more tragically, how do I possibly talk about any of this to anyone else when there simply are not words to describe it? How do I possibly find suitable words without talking about the things my parents have done? I do not wish to hang out their dirty laundry for all the world to see. It is my desire that my love would cover a multitude of sins; so I do enjoy having love for my “enemies”, but how do I manage to love myself at the same time? I can try and speak of my pain and the reasons for it, but who does it benefit when my experience reminds me that the only people around me that I can talk to are already in so much pain themselves that it leaves them unable to hear without taking sides, without assigning blame, and without seeing enemies? I know from experience that it is nearly impossible to keep a listener’s focus of attention on MY pain when I describe WHY I’m in pain. But without providing at least some small context of WHY, I cannot fully convey all the pain, and so much of the intensity and reason for the pain is lost, and the understanding and full appreciation of the true nature of the challenge goes largely unnoticed.

    How true it is that “The ill and unfit choice of words wonderfully obstructs the understanding.” ~ Francis Bacon

    And then on another front, there are the brushes with and rubbing shoulders with all the visiting JW family and friends. Here I am, writing and commenting about this on a website that is named: “Friends of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” I draw attention to that because sometimes, whenever JW’s act in ways that are painful to me, whenever they do things that make it very difficult for me to love them, I really struggle to maintain a friendly disposition towards them. Usually I *can* do it, and I almost always manage to do it well, but it often comes with a heavy price tag.

    It’s always easier to see difficult-to-love persons as “friends” when the contacts with them are brief and followed by plenty of recovery time. Sit in close company with JWs and “listen bravely” to them for extended periods of time and I begin to notice I’m losing my fragile grip on my own identity. After an extended time in their presence, I begin to resent myself for constantly presenting the other cheek for them to slap over and over, again and again. It is mostly due to my own tolerance and silence that these “friends” are oblivious to the fact that I have quickly allowed myself to become not much more than a verbal punching bag, and the longer I sit and listen, the longer I bite my tongue, the more I notice their sloppy speech becomes infectious and irritating to me. I find myself at an ever-increasing risk of getting drawn back into old habits of negative thinking and evil speaking and condemning and criticising others. I find their saccharin version of love and their mock humility either rubbing off on me, or disgusting me so much that I am unwittingly provoked and then (hopefully, yet regrettably) I quickly find myself fighting the temptation to adopt it and use it back on them in an attempt at education and self-preservation. In all, it’s not a healthy place to be for extended periods of time.

    In times like this, I draw a lot of comfort from the entire book of Job. But oh! how I silently pray as did he in Job 13:5, “Oh that you would keep silent, and it would be your wisdom!” (Compare Proverbs 17:8) Matthew Henry comments on Job 13:5 saying, “And, as silence is an evidence of wisdom, so it is a means of it, as it gives time to think and hear.”

    When in the company of my parents and other JW’s, I also begin to notice that I’m exhausted from the vital yet relentless exercise of self-restraint. Nothing is more exhausting than NOT DOING all the things I’d only regret. It’s truly hard work to simply do nothing. As I’ve already mentioned, just as frequently NOT DOING also involves NOT SAYING, or keeping silent, which in truth is actually a relentless war of resisting the constant urge to say lots and to speak rashly from a place of hurt rather than speaking honestly from the heart. Still, I try to follow my own prescription by making it my habit to let my own silence be the first (and frequently only) kind of wisdom I express.

    Despite all the opportunities to practice empathy and compassion that I’ve been granted over the years, despite all the advancement I’ve made, in these situations even just keeping calm and refusing to let slip any sign of either defensiveness or aggressiveness is an epic challenge. To even force a smile at this point is difficult, and even though I manage it, I still know it was forced. And that terrifies me, for I value sincerity and authenticity.

    When it is time to end the visit and leave the hospital and return home, what can I say that doesn’t suddenly seem hypocritical? Can I hug my mom and kiss her? Well, I manage to do it, and I even hold her hand next to my heart while I caress her cheek tenderly with the back of my fingers, and all the while I gaze intently and deeply into her eyes, trying to convey the depths of my love, the depths of my forgiveness, and perhaps a tiny glimpse of the depths of my pain. But I have no tears for her. After enduring decades of pain resulting from her good intentions–of which I have not been allowed to speak–I don’t even have enough tears left for me. And as I look deeply into her eyes, I wonder what’s alive in her at this moment? While I can guess, I don’t expect I’ll truly ever know, because trust, warmth, openness, affection, vulnerability, self-acceptance, and self-compassion are foreign to her; such are not skills she has yet developed.

    And then there still remain all the other things I cannot yet put into words. Like what? Like all the “little-t” traumas. Like all the things I wish I hadn’t heard, wish I hadn’t seen, and wish I could somehow unhear and unsee, all those annoying little tunes that get stuck on endless replay in my head.

    And let me not forget to mention all the conflicting pictures. Those conflicting pictures are, I believe, the most confusing, the most overwhelming, the most crazy-making. And these things are the very things I have yet to find words that can communicate them.

    And yet shall I try? OK. Here is my attempt at one example: I get to listen to prayers that are to a God that is called by the name of Jehovah, and yet it is a God that I know not. The JW God seems to be a God that takes orders from men, for they constantly tell him what to do. The JW God seems to enjoy hearing his presumptuous worshipers talk about how superior THEY are to every one else. The JW God seems to be well pleased with hypocrisy and thinly disguised hate-speech and condemnatory orations. The JW God seems to be OK with something I call God-Speak, a deity-mode of speech in which even the most ignorant can express himself in such a way that his opinions are magically transformed into god-like pronouncements on the nature of things. The JW God seems also to be happy to receive false accusations as they thank (accuse) him for doing all kinds of things that I’m pretty sure he didn’t do, and even more certain that my GOD would NEVER do. And yet, I believe these people to be sincere, zealous, convinced of their own righteousness, even if they are misguided, just as were most of the Pharisees, including Saul who later became know as Paul. Yeah, it all takes a toll.

    What else do I mean by conflicting pictures? Another example is that my mom is remembered by others as a “good Christian”, a loyal and faithful soldier of God, and a kind-hearted person. But that isn’t how I experienced her, nor how I remember her. Not even close, for I cannot remember anything but pain experienced at her “lovingly-brutal” hands and lips.

    Another conflicting picture is the “monster” that comes to mind when I remember my life with her versus the frail, pathetic, wasted-away-to-nothing, near-empty shell of a person who now lays before me. It’s not wonderful to see her in either light. Can I see her as just another human being, as a person like everyone else, as the person that God intended her to be instead of the person who was twisted and deformed by the many prevailing winds of evil? Can I see her as my dad sees her, and let go of seeing her as my mom? Yes. That’s actually the easiest and the happiest for me. But even that has a dark shadow of taint, for wherein is the truth of my pain in that? Wherein is the ability to appreciate that if it were not for her cruelty towards me, I would not be the person I am today? So I risk losing my very identity, or at least the foundations upon which my identity is based. Integrating all this information into my cognitive schema isn’t easy to do. And to do it while being relentlessly bombarded is kind of like trying to swallow Niagara Falls all in one breath.

    For all the efforts of trying to see her as she would no doubt like me to see her, I grow confused because I’m suddenly spending a lot of time living in a fantasy world, a pretend world, a world of make-believe, just like it seems my parents and JWs still do, just like I did when I was a child, and like I did before therapy when it seemed the only way to try to make sense of my life was to justify and excuse her actions, and ignore the painful impact those actions had–and continue to have–on me. I find myself only a half-step away from deluding myself all over again and losing track of reality. There doesn’t seem to be sufficient space in me to hold onto both my reality and my wishful thinking because of the constant flip-flopping of: my picture, their picture, my picture, their picture–it gets exceedingly exhausting, and then keeping track of: “Whose picture is it I’m looking at now?” isn’t easy, and it all becomes so very confusing.

    Another example of the internal war of conflicting pictures is when I’m TOLD by someone that they understand my grief, and that they know that the prospect of losing my mom is a hard thing for me. But that isn’t my picture either! I do not presently foresee that I’m going to miss her. To miss her would suggest that there’s something I’m about to lose, something I have enjoyed that I am soon no longer going to be able to enjoy. And that simply isn’t so. I’ve already grieved for all of that loss years ago. And so now, I don’t really have a valid connection with the person who is trying to connect with me. It pleases me to assume and believe the best about this person, and try to enjoy the intention behind their fumbling efforts, that their attempt to offer comfort is at least arising from sincerity and caring. Yet I come away empty, having both given and received for THEIR benefit, and at MY expense. And so I also come away shaken, lonely, reeling in confusion, pain, and overwhelm.

    And then, on top of it all, my car breaks down and I have no idea how I will be able to afford to repair it. Through it all, I trust in God and Jesus. But there’s one final part of that puzzle which complicates even doing just that. And once again, words fail me here, also. Yet I shall try to find some words for it.

    All my life I have sought and really searched for God with all my heart. Finally, after years of self-doubt, after years of healing and recovery, after years of diligent study, I finally find the Bible Students. Yay! As I listen to the recordings of past conventions, I hear expressed sentiments, conclusions, discoveries, ideas, understandings, that align with my experiences, my words, my beliefs, my values, my hopes, my discoveries, my understandings, my appreciations, and all kinds of things that have resonated deep within me for so long. And yet, I do not have a burning desire to leave earth and instead make my calling and election sure. For years now it has truly been my deepest heartfelt prayer that “[God’s] will be done,” but this week I’m suddenly besieged and shredded by the jackals of my mind making accusations that I’m a hypocrite because I am unwilling to do God’s will if it means I have to do so in heaven. And so I’m grappling with that, also.

    But in trying on the hat of the heavenly hope, so to speak, I get terrified because I fear that I would quickly become egotistical, self-satisfied, haughty if I were to allow myself to entertain “elevated hopes” for myself. I envision myself smugly “lording it over” my family who spurned me. No, I’m quite content to remain of this earth. I’m quite content to sit at the lowest seat in the room. And yet, isn’t that one of the admirable qualities which all of Christ’s Bride should wish to develop?

    “Ack! No! Please! I’m doomed!” scream the voices in my head. For a few moments I cannot see my way forward in all of this, and there currently isn’t sufficient time or head-space to sort my way out of this, so panic ensues on top of it all. Now, valuable internal resources such as calmness, contemplation, and reflection are suddenly exhausted, too.

    And here again is where words do not adequately convey the struggle. I do NOT need more information, here. I do NOT need anyone else’s input on this issue. At the very least, I do not WANT any more information just now. I can argue and reason it all out by myself. I already have access to sufficient information, enough ideas, that I don’t need any more input. I’m already drowning in all the input I’ve previously gotten. My plate is full. You can’t put any more on it. And my belly is full. I can’t put any more in it. I’m just so spun right now, so overwhelmed and confused, that I cannot digest or process everything that’s going on inside me. I just need some quiet, some inner peace, some relief from the inner storm before I am snowed under by the next avalanche. I need to catch my breath before the next wave crashes in upon me.

    Are you getting any of what I’m TRYING to say here? Or are you only hearing the words? Are you only seeing YOUR picture, the picture my words have evoked IN YOU? Or are you actually beginning to truly glimpse some small parts of MY picture, of MY world, of MY stresses, of MY confusion, of MY overwhelm? Can you really see ME in MY world, or can you only see that which I remind you of that’s in your world? Are you only hearing my admittedly inadequate words, and missing the relational context I’m also striving to convey by my fumbling around with words?

    I’d like to say, “But let me get back to the struggles at hand,” but the REAL struggles at hand ARE the struggles of the immediately preceding paragraph. What I said there ARE THE REAL and MOST PERTINENT issues. The rest is just scenery, just parts of the recipe, just the background which creates the issues that are really impacting me.

    Painfully, I’ve learned that we tend to like to jump in and “fix” others before we’ve had a chance to fully understand what needs fixing, and before we’ve asked if they even want our help. I’ve also learned from experience that when a person is truly heard, truly understood, the raging waters become still, and it is only in all the peace, tranquillity, and serenity that one’s ability to see one’s own reflection becomes clear, and only then that the problem that seemed insurmountable previously, now seems almost to solve itself. So when I’m with someone who is struggling, I simply aim to provide enough calmness for both of us, and then out of all that calmness, the other person sees their problem clearly, and then also inevitably sees a uniquely satisfying way forward without my needing to “fix” anything, a way that I could never have dreamed up, because only they have full access to ALL the facts, to ALL the relevant information they need. Put somewhat differently, they are their own best expert. They alone know their problem best. No matter how intimately I might know (or believe I know) their problem, they know things about it that I could never know. At the very least, they know their own hearts, and thus only they can know what will truly feel satisfying to it.

    But what do my parents and JW’s pride themselves on? Saving people. Rescuing people. Educating people. Fixing people. TELLING people. And on ALWAYS BEING RIGHT. On knowing everything everybody else needs to know. On having all the answers when they know little to nothing of the problem. This no doubt both appeals to, and feeds their own egos, which in turn further fuels the problem.

    I don’t need or want any of that, thank you very much. I just need hug, a listening ear, a shoulder to cry on, to be understood, to be seen for WHO I REALLY AM, not for what my parents and JW’s assume me to be. I need to not be invisible. I need to matter. I need to contribute. I have lots to offer to share, but not much opportunity to offer it. But I refuse to ever impose it. Sigh.

    And then, also, I hear sincere prayers from my dad, given for the benefit of my mom, and I wonder, am I really all that different from them? Let me just say, “Ouch!” But wait, I haven’t got words to link these thoughts, so how can I provide a dot-to-dot for others to follow so they understand the connection, so they understand me?

    Rather than even attempt to fill in the gaps in that train of thought, I’ll leave it as a prime example of what I’m trying to say I struggle with, and as a puzzle for others. I’ll leave it as a challenge, an exercise, a way to practice that which I’ve constantly been hinting at, that sometimes a person cannot find the words that would help them to convey, understand, and eventually transcend their pain, and cannot find the words that would help reconnect them to humanity. So what can we do in those occasions? How can we provide meaningful support to those who are crushed in spirit, to those who can no longer even advocate for themselves?

    I want to always remember that I love people. I want to always have a gentle and caring attitude towards all of God’s creatures, toward each and every one of His children, including myself. I’m glad there are really only two commandments in the Bible. It takes all of my focused attention, energy, and determination to just try to master those two. (Mark 12:28-34)

    That is precisely what I work at every day. I listen with all my heart. And with all my heart I care. And then, once in a while, I cry when there seems to be no one who can truly hear me when I’m at a loss for words, and when I’m drowning but cannot even seem to cry out.

    Carl Rogers words are Oh! so profoundly touching to me, so moving, so meaningful, so resonant. May I quote him here?

    “I have often noticed that the more deeply I hear the meanings of this person, the more there is that happens. Almost always, when a person realizes he has been deeply heard, his eyes moisten. I think in some real sense he is weeping for joy. It is as though he were saying, “Thank God, somebody heard me. Someone knows what it’s like to be me.” In such moments I have had the fantasy of a prisoner in a dungeon, tapping out day after day a Morse code message, “Does anybody hear me? Is anybody there?” And finally one day he hears some faint tappings which spell out “Yes.” By that one simple response he is released from his loneliness; he has become a human being again. There are many, many people living in private dungeons today, people who give no evidence of it whatsoever on the outside, where you have to listen very sharply to hear the faint messages from the dungeon.” (From: A Way of Being, Carl Rogers, 1980)

    In closing, may I say that even though I began this writing because of my emotions of overwhelm and confusion, by just attempting to put my experience into words, I have achieved a significant measure of clarity and calmness. Of course, I do not want to sound as though I take any credit for having done this on my own. No, I respectfully and appreciatively give credit to Jehovah God who made me in a wonderful way, and who, in His wisdom, created all of us with both a need and an ability to communicate to others. Through attempting to meet this need for ourselves, we also help others. Through attempting to help others meet this need, we help ourselves. We are after all made in God’s likeness, and whenever we aspire to imitate him, we can only bless and be blessed.

    From among the scores of scriptures floating around my mind these past few days I had initially assembled a “small sampling” of more than 40 of them that have application in my life right now. I’ve decided not to include them because I’ve already used far more words than I’d have liked, and yet I still fear, and to some extent expect that I’ve not clearly communicated much of value at all. Still, I thank God for not denying me the opportunity to try and reach out to everyone else who may be struggling desperately to tap out messages from their own private dungeons. God willing, I will continue to try to hear clearly every one of those tappings, and to care.

    If I have educated, or engaged in God-speak, I beg forgiveness. If I have misrepresented anyone, again I beg forgiveness. If I have sinned in my use of the tongue, I pray forgiveness and enlightenment so I can learn and grow and improve. But if I have validated someone else’s experience, then I am happy. Or if I have helped someone find the courage to try and speak their story so as to move forward in healing, I am thrilled. And if I have helped someone else find the words they’ve been trying to find, find the peace and/or meaning they’ve been trying to find, then I too will have been richly blessed for my efforts.

    “May The LORD bless thee, and keep thee and make his face to shine upon thee, and give thee peace.” (Numbers 6:24-26)


    • Just stay sweet and good

      Greg Your a lot more expresive than I am. I feel all the things you articulated so well. Your going to be our favorite spokesman from now on. You’ve been there, you know what were all talking about. We all in our own way are talking about our utter disappointment with this thing called life as it is now. Were stuck now between earth and heaven. We don’t want to go back and were scared to go forward. When David escaped to the cave at Adullam it says”……and all men in distress and all men who had a creditor and all men BITTER OF SOUL began to collect together to HIM and he came to be chief over them….” 1 Samuel 22 Our Lord and Master Jesus Christ is the greater David. He really can’t use us as a good soldiers until we are throughly disgusted with this old world and literally flat on our face……………..then……and only then can he give us some little thing to
      do for him. He starts with us in little things to build us back up in his likeness. You have a wonderful dynamic future.
      Just stay sweet and good

      • greg (Bible Student)

        Just Stay Sweet and Good,

        I am sincerely grateful for the mention of David’s men. I’d not recalled that account, and so your words inspired fond memories of reading that account. Even more so, the linking that to the notion that Christ Jesus re-builds us from the ground up does indeed mirror my journey over the years. I smile now as I recall with much sweeter fondness the pit of despair that only ever seemed to grow deeper. It was kind of like a “spiritual-Limbo”, (the Dance, not the Catholic doctrine) and I was forever wondering, “How Low can I go?” I never knew how low it was possible to go. Every time I thought I couldn’t go any lower, I discovered how little imagination I had. 🙂 In retrospect, we all go back to the dust of the ground, so to speak, whether literally, or figuratively, and yes, then Jesus can re-mold us, re-purpose us. What a blessing to have been afflicted. Psalm 119:71

        Thanks for the kindness and encouragement!

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Email from Chuck Maly, with permission to share.
      Dear Sister Jacqueline,
      Gregs post hit me hard. I understand him. Leaving out the JW aspect, I had similar experiences. He has described my struggle with anxiety/depression perfectly. I could very easily have written some of the paragraphs myself (and have tried.)
      I know he needs personal time right now but, if he ever wants to call me for a “hug” and support, please give him my email and phone number. If he lives close enough maybe I could even meet him in person some time.
      Sincerely and in Christ,

      • greg (Bible Student)

        Chuck Maly,

        I consider myself hugged. Thank you! And may I also extend a similar offer to you. I’m up here in South-Western Ontario, Canada. But in my heart, I know I’m close to you and all others who have been patiently running an endless marathon of hurdles. Depression was my constant companion for many years. I finally found my way free of that, with God’s help. I wish that same relief would be yours, at least for a few moments from time to time.

        I’m here for you, too. If you want to correspond via email, just say the word. I have your email address already because Jacqueline forwarded me your email before posting it here.

        Hugs, and thanks, my dear friend,

  • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

    Hello all,
    I have been in the process for a long time in making a decision on when to make it known that I am no longer a Jw. This has now become a family decision as my wife and I are now on the same page. The difficulty is that my job will be in jeopardy once the decision is made. I feel that I can no longer keep my silence with the Elders that I work for and I must stand for what I believe. We have avoided them all this week as the C.o. was here and they came by three different times. My wife actually answered the door the 1st time and the C.o. and my boss were there and she told them not to return and that they will not see us at the meeting. I wear the cross and crown pin on my hat and yesterday a Jw saw us at an appointment and talked to us briefly and am sure the pin was noticed. I feel I must be forward and honest and stand for what I believe yet I still fear the loss of my job as I have my wife and children to consider. I am asking for prayer and a bit of advice perhaps. We will not write a letter to these people yet if asked I am not sure I can continue to hold back and play it off. I am waiting for the Lord to give me an answer to my prayers in this matter and and hoping that others may help lead me to a good decision at the right time. Thank you all.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Hi Brandon, here is my take on this. Within the United States we have freedom to worship constitutionally. Religion has no place in the workplace when you are on the clock. In fact on your job no one need know what your religion is. Wearing of outside pins signs etc isn’t necessary in the workplace. When you aren’t on the clock you probably would be offensive if you spoke to JW employees about your religion as they shouldn’t bother you with theirs either.
      AT THE KINGDOM HALL is a different matter however and is a place to discuss religion. In your home you should be free from harassment by any religion and if offended don’t open your door, just ignore the knocks. Unless you post a sign saying not to knock on your door they may do so.
      Firing a person for their beliefs is against the law on discrimination. But also creating a hostile environ by the employee or employer can cause a problem. I would suggest not making religion a subject in the workplace. If you want to stop attending the kingdom hall you can just do so without explanation to anyone. Your wife seems to have spoken already. They don’t need to know what you believe nor is it necessary to speak of your personal relationship with God in the workplace. If you speak in your home on the street or at the kingdom hall that is different but not in the workplace.
      You don’t want to be the one creating a hostile eviron in the workplace and if you are fired it is a violation of your CIVIL Rights. I am sure an employer is aware of this and don’t want to slip down that slope. But if it can be proven you bring up religion at the workplace and create a hostile eviron for your witness workmates he can fire you for doing so to protect himself from litigation by the other workers.
      So my suggestion is to pray that you can hold your tongue on the job and do your work and let your employer mention religion as a ground for employment. You might want to inform him that you are recording all conversations so there is not misunderstanding later on what is said and your grounds for firing. And never threaten nor lose control, let your employer make the religion an issue.
      Perhaps not going to the kingdom hall will help you be able to do your job without tying the two together. They are separate in the eyes of the law.
      Your wife’s decision shouldn’t have anything to do with your employment. This is a slippery slope for your employer. The LORD’s will in this matter can be twofold from what I see. Shining light on the control of humans and exposure of wrong scriptural understandings if not at the workplace you explain your views. Also it might be his will that you get free from them, even finding another job.
      I can imagine your pain of having to go to a religion just to keep your job. That would be mental cruelty. All cards were on the table when he hired you.
      That is my take. Others might see it differently. Take Care and pray for peace,calmness and control. If you come to Christ you will suffer for a while but joy cometh in the morning. Love you guys!

      PS: Your decision but I often wonder why witnesses write a letter to this organization as if they owned them or something. You have the right to walk away and the less paperwork the better it is for a person who faces discrimination for race or religion. You must not be the initiator of events but simply doing your job and minding your business. No need to inform them of any decisions you have made on your personal religious decisions.

      • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

        Thanks Jacqueline. And I am always at work at my regular job on my own, I never have another Jw there so that part is no problem. The pin I wear in public outside of work hours. And as we never attend hall and rarely see Jws it isnt an issue much there. They are gunning for us and the threat was made months ago by the boss so he has certainly been trying to find another way around it all. As for the other elder i work for at times it is as a subcontractor and he brings up religious conversation there at times and I always hold back. This is the main place where a problem may occur.

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Brandon, Great that you have some freedom working alone. The visits indicate they are gunning for you so to speak because many elders and the governing body have long felt they are above the law. Only recently have they found out they are not. Hopefully they will leave you guys alone in peace and realize you are adults. That seems to be the whole problem with their organization, not respecting persons rights as adults or free individuals to make their own decisions in personal matters like religion and medical decisions.
          Patience and time with a minimum amount of words when in a hostile environ normally works best. It doesn’t help to throw pearls to swine, they can’t appreciate it. Those that just walk away have fared best as far as emotions are concerned. They can be verbally abusive and disturb your inner peace. Their inner peace is upset when you ignore them and just look at them when they talk without a word. It takes strength to remain silent sometimes but Jesus did it often.
          It is a shame you have to be going thru this over a man made organization. I normally pray it away and have assurance that God takes it on his shoulder and off of mine. Take Care.

      • Anonymous

        Good morning. I left a replyy for lee yesterday concerning his post work leaving ect but didnt show up today????

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Anonymous let me go look for it in spam. Be right back. Found it. I know you are on a little keyboard on your phone but the program will look for certain errors and spam it, so you did good to let us know and I will go immediately to get it. Look below for your post which I think is great advice because He might get something much better.
          I employed 90 people at a time and because it was a professional job I had to employ anyone not just witnesses. I had a problem with the one witness pioneer who wanted to get her time in on the job. She reported me to the congregation for letting other religions put their literature on our free book stand. (later found out this was a Bible student) I warned her and told the elders that I would follow all guidelines at the kingdom hall as they ran it, but I make the rules at my company. I informed her she could leave if she was offended but welcome to stay as none of the employees were bothering her but she was preaching a little to much for my clients. Surprisingly the elders not only agreed with me but said I need to stop her from proselyting as it was going to ruin my business. I eventually had to fire her my best worker for total in-subordination. It seems other pioneers were telling her she had rights to push her religion even in the workplace because she was an independent contractor. She took me to task on the point and screamed at me and threatened me. I fired her on the spot and informed security.
          It seemed she was under so much pressure to get her time work and date. The only way she could regular pioneer and study Chinese to go to China was to get her time on the job for eight hours as long as she laid out literature. Clients kept complaining to me that when I wasn’t there the entire massage time was spent arguing with her as she was relentless.
          I recognized she was suffering a mental break from the pressure to pioneer in order to go to China to serve when the need was great. So I have experience with workplace discussions of religion and it can tear a company apart. That is why I say don’t talk it on the job if your views are different from the other people as it can get you fired and the law is on the side of the employer. I knew I was covered as I gave many notices to cease and desist. A slippery slope for an employer.

    • Anonymous

      Hello lee am no expert as iam tryi,g to fade myself and my wife and i arnt even close to the same page but ha ing said that i think if the brothers you work with are 10 or kess small company will be more of a challange . If its a big co. Better for you regardless of legal or not right or wrong once they believe they cant win you back. Tbats when it is difficult as we all know if they lable us appostates ect well u know the story if i were in your shoes i would continue as you are meanwhile looking to plan. B employment wise As you are breaking free God will supply all your needs according to HIS riches in glory. His children you will never be begging for bread one of satans favorite tools is fear and in this system loss of a job is huge when you have loved ones to care for but 2 thinfs are ALWAYS CERTAIN. GOD IS ABLE AND GOD IS IN CONTROL thru the holy spirit he will guide you to freedom and employment it can be hard but if we Trust him he will save us from the snare just my thought will be praying for you LORD BLESS

      • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

        Thank you anonymous,
        Very encouraging and some more food for thought. God bless. I pray for you in your current situation as well.

  • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

    My family and I just arrived home from our first Bible student convention with the Chicago class. The entire family had a very good time and look forward to many more to come with the brethren as well. I was finally able to meet some of you face to face and it certainly was a pleasure. Sister Jacqueline thanks again for putting us up for the weekend!! My wife truly enjoyed herself and looks forward to studying. This was the first time since before I was a Jw that I was in one place with other followers of Christ and felt the spirit in such a powerful way!
    We are in a very rural area but discovered that there is a class within 2 hours of us and we look forward to trying to join them as often as is possible for us. It was a long tiring weekend and a lot of driving but every mile and dollar spent was worth it! Thanks again to all who are on this site and especially those who run the site and keep it running. Much love and may the Lord bless everyone.

    • greg (Bible Student)


      Congratulations and Thank you!

      Thank you for sharing your expressions because I was wondering how things would go for you, particularly with respect to your wife. I’m really pleased to hear that Jacqueline took you in for the weekend. That must have been really wonderful for you and your wife.

      And there’s a class that’s somewhat close to you, too! Yay!

      Thanks for sharing a ray of sunshine with us all.

      And Jacqueline, may I also add my gratitude to you for the gift you gave to Brandon and his wife. I’m sure you are richly blessed for your generosity and kindness. It touches my heart deeply to imagine how much your giving enriches the lives and efforts of so many others.


      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        Greg, it was indeed a blessing. Brandon’s wife is a gem we got along fine and had so much in common. Plus I got a special treat a 5 month old baby, he is even tempered like Brandon yet looks like his Mom. The 8 year old waited patiently for my grands to get there on Monday and spend a day at the beach.
        He rode to the convention in my car the first day and walked right in wondering where his classes were. The teacher was right there at the entrance getting ages and telling them time and place for their classes.
        I guess he will have to come on and tell all about what his classes were about and the trip he took to the park one even for play.
        We were able to discuss a lot of things and really Brandon’s wife has more reason to be hurt because of personal pain the religion has caused her family to suffer. I don’t use her name but keep saying Brandon’s wife because she has to give us a name to use.
        Also my whole family knew I had guest and it shows them this is for real and not just me having an experience. Now there is witness that former JW attend Bs conventions. Take Care all I have 5 grandchildren here from 14 to 3 years old. My life is full for the next 5 days.

  • Lincoln

    Thank you Jacqueline. God Bless.

  • Lincoln

    Dear Jacqueline,

    Ok, but you must try to see from my point of view. (I will get back to all the questions I have been asked and I will answer all).

    But about the links. I understand everything you say, but here is my point of view: Those links on YouTube with all the testimonies, songs and other Christians witnesses, millions of people are downloading those songs and music and after more millions are listening to many other things.

    I do too and I listen all day (when I have time) and I have given to many others and – I have never heard of anybody having trouble with that.

    So, I just don’t understand the problem I hear here. To help my computer I have a couple of small devises to analyse the links I use and in split second it wans me and stop anything which is not supposed to be there and remove it.

    I think you miss a lot from the Internet even when I am going to answer all your questions, in fear of “´what ever” happens.

    But, I will respect peoples feelings and meninges and do it your way.

    So, I must explain “this” a little. When we discuss “things”, you7 people here (Peter and Chuck; I have met until now) are very fast to “throw away what I say”.

    I understand their feelings, but the thing is, many times matters take some time. You must “gather” up information to come to any conclusions.

    I understand you people do not have this time. That is a pity.

    One thing I am very happy about is the unity in Christ I have with you.

    No words, no explanations, no discussions and no dogmas. Just Unification in the Lord Jesus Christ trough communion.

    • Peter K. (admin)


      We are not throwing out what you say. We are giving you the opportunity to defend your views.

      • Lincoln

        Hi again Peter (today)

        This is a very strange way of talking to each other. I try to respect you and so far I have only been talking to you with all my best Christian love.

        I have given you all the things I value and in response this very strange response. But I will try to do as I am told, but I must say it is very strange way you are doing this.

        So, what ever I have written in the past few days here is now lost in its contest.

        It does not make any explanations since it is mixed up. But I will try to do as you people here say.

        • Peter K. (admin)


          Is there a particular topic you would like to discuss with the group on this website. For example, would you like to discuss what is HELL? Is there eternal torment for unbelievers? Or would you like to select another topic we can all discuss together?

          • Lincoln

            Hi Peter,

            Thank you for comment and suggestions as a topic; Hell. Well, we can always discuss it, but I understand people here are studying Acts 2 and that I think would be appropriate to talk about; a little later for me.

            I think Jacqueline like to hear my story “out of Jehovah`s Witnesses” so I will start to give my life story. It will take some time because I must take it bit for bit in a way you people here can appreciate it.

            I am looking forward to “meet” people here and see what happened to them, as well.

            It is more the less the classic story, but different because of different circumstances and people involved.

            Also, this is not my first langue so I hope I express “things” correctly. It must be fun for you English-speaking people to read and when you listen to us,(I am Scandinavian).

            But I will tell my story.

            All the best to you Peter, I can understand you are doing a great job here and “things” are not always as easy.

            God bless you too.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Lincoln, I am in Chicago now in our Sunday meeting so I am not ignoring you buy I live 1hour 15 away. So I will read and write when I get home later this evening. I do have something I want to say to you, we share something in common. Take Care

      PS We are studying the bible book Acts chapter 2 and I am downstairs in a little class. Also Br. Peter is here I will tell him hello for you.

      • Lincoln

        Dear Jaqueline,

        If you do not mind and with all respect for what you people here believe, I hope it is alright that I also tell what I believe? I am not trying to overrule your teachings, but I think “we can talk about it”, right?

        Will you allow me to give this explanation as how I understand the event happened on the day of pentecost?

        quote Jaqueline:
        We are studying the bible book Acts chapter 2 and I am downstairs in a little class. Also Br. Peter is here I will tell him hello for you.

        My comment:

        I like when you just talk like this. One side of the Gospel ”the Holy Spirit” and the Christian life is ”interest and study and love for the word of Jesus”.

        When it comes to the Pentecost, it might be the most important part of Christianity. Though ever since then we have not seen the Paradise like world; on the contrary.

        So, I will give what I found and now carry in my heart. I tell you the truth; even now, getting started to explain my belief in Jesus, I get this very strange feeling in my heart as if I was there, on the day of Pentecost and you were there and we was talking and wondering of, what happened.

        16 …….. this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

        17 “‘In the last days, God says,
        I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
        Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
        your young men will see visions,
        your old men will dream dreams.

        18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
        I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
        and they will prophesy.

        19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
        and signs on the earth below,
        blood and fire and billows of smoke.

        20 The sun will be turned to darkness
        and the moon to blood
        before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.

        21 And everyone who calls
        on the name of the Lord will be saved.

        In the Christian world this means, that the outpour of the Holy Spirit happens and we can have the Holy Spirit in our hearts.

        When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came

        1) ”from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house” where they were sitting. And divided

        2) ”tongues as of fire appeared” to them and rested on each one of them. And

        3) ”they were all filled with the Holy Spirit” and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
        Quote end.

        My comment:

        Imagine it was you people. To day, is it possible?

        If it was at that time, it is also possible today. God has not changed. Why would this be so strange to some Christians; (believers who might not have this understanding).

        There is one thing we should notise; ”they were all filled with the Holy Spirit (ruach / pneuma)” and ”from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind (ruack/pneuma), and it filled the entire house” and ”tongues as of fire (ruach/pneuma ignis) appeared” to them and rested on each one of them.

        Now, because of you not open up quotations form the Internet, I will just quote it among what I think because this is what I believe.

        Often, when the Old Testament talks about the “Spirit of the Lord” or the “Spirit of God,” the word for “Spirit” is Ruach (Greek pneuma).

        Question: “What is the meaning of the Hebrew word ruach?”


        The Hebrew ruach means “wind,” “breath,” or “spirit.” The corresponding Greek word is pneuma (πνεῦμα ).

        Both words are commonly used in passages referring to the Holy Spirit.

        The word’s first use in the Bible appears in the second verse: “The Spirit of God [Ruach Elohim] was hovering over the waters” (Genesis 1:2).

        (the ”waters” is tehom, Hebrew: תְּהוֹם‎‎), literally the Deep or Abyss (Greek Septuagint: ábyssos), refers to the Great Deep of the primordial waters of creation in the Bible. Tehom is a cognate of the Akkadian word tamtu and Ugaritic t-h-m which have similar meaning. As such it was equated with the earlier Sumerian Tiamat. )

        So, many from this part of the world has a teaching/idea and a religious interpretation of the creation and the gods. The Israelites had the one I just quoted from genesis 1.

        In Genesis 6:17 ruach is translated “breath of life.”

        Genesis 8:1 uses ruach to describe the “wind” God sent over the earth to recede the Flood waters. Altogether, the word ruach is found almost 400 times in the Old Testament.

        Often, when the Old Testament talks about the “Spirit of the Lord” or the “Spirit of God,” the word for “Spirit” is Ruach.

        Use of ruach as “spirit” when not linked with God usually is in, reference to the human spirit.

        This can mean the actual spirit of a human

        (the immaterial part of humans akin to the soul)

        or to one’s mood, emotional state, or general disposition.

        Ruach as “breath” or “wind” can be a reference to literal breath or wind or it can take on a figurative meaning such as in the idiom “a mere breath.”

        God’s Ruach is the source of life.

        The Ruach of God is the One who gives life to all creation.

        We could say that God’s Ruach has created every other (non-divine) ruach that exists.

        All living creatures owe the breath of life to the Creative Spirit of God. (that is God)

        Moses states this truth explicitly: “God . . . gives breath [ruach] to all living things” (Numbers 27:16). Job understood this truth as well: “As long as I have life within me, the breath [ruach] of God in my nostrils” (Job 27:3). Later, Elihu tells Job, “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life” (Job 33:4).

        God used the phrase Ruach Yahweh in His promise that the Messiah would be empowered by the Holy Spirit:

        “The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him—the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD” (Isaiah 11:2; see also Isaiah 42:1). This prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus; at His baptism in the Jordan River, John saw “the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him” (Matthew 3:16).

        The Bible provides many ways to help us understand that the Holy Spirit is truly a person—that is, He is a personal being, rather than an impersonal thing. (as long as we understand why we use the word person for God, when we do, if we do.)

        First, every pronoun used in reference to the Spirit is “he” not “it.”

        The original Greek language of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit.

        The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have grammatical agreement.

        Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found (e.g., John 15:26; 16:13-14).

        Grammatically, there is no other way to understand the pronouns of the New Testament related to the Holy Spirit—He is referred to as a “He,” as a person.

        Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is a collective reference to one Triune God. (or just one God, but we have been presented to 3 different “personalities” in those cases.)

        Also, we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit can be sinned against (Isaiah 63:10) and lied to (Acts 5:3). We are to obey Him (Acts 10:19–21) and honor Him (Psalm 51:11).

        The personhood of the Holy Spirit is also affirmed by His many works. He was personally involved in creation (Genesis 1:2), empowers God’s people (Zechariah 4:6), guides (Romans 8:14), comforts (John 14:26), convicts (John 16:8), teaches (John 16:13), restrains sin (Isaiah 59:19), and gives commands (Acts 8:29).

        Each of these works requires the involvement of a person rather than a mere force, thing, or idea.

        The Holy Spirit’s attributes also point to His personality.

        The Holy Spirit has life (Romans 8:2), has a will (1 Corinthians 12:11), is omniscient (1 Corinthians 2:10–11), is eternal (Hebrews 9:14), and is omnipresent (Psalm 139:7). A mere force could not possess all of these attributes, but the Holy Spirit does.

        And the personhood of the Holy Spirit is affirmed by His role as the third Person of the Godhead. Only a being who is equal to God (Matthew 28:19) and possesses the attributes of omniscience, omnipresence, and eternality could be defined as God.

        In Acts 5:3–4, Peter referred to the Holy Spirit as God, stating, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?

        Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

        Paul likewise referred to the Holy Spirit as God in 2 Corinthians 3:17–18, stating, “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

        And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.”

        The Holy Spirit is a person, as Scripture makes clear. As such, He is to be revered as God and serves in perfect unity with Father and Son to lead us in our spiritual lives.

        [this is actually also the conclusion Charles Taze Russell came to.)

        The Bible is not perfectly clear as to the nature of the human soul.

        But from studying the way the word soul is used in Scripture, we can come to some conclusions.

        Simply stated, the human soul is the part of a person that is not physical.

        It is the part of every human being that lasts eternally after the body experiences death. Genesis 35:18 describes the death of Rachel, Jacob’s wife, saying she named her son “as her soul was departing.”

        From this we know that the soul is different from the body and that it continues to live after physical death.

        Mark 12:30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

        Genesis 35: 18 And as her soul was departing (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin. So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem),

        Now, what has this to do with Acts 2, the day of Pentecost? A lot. First the utterance within the room where this took place. It was not just a small quiet event, but a mighty utterance of Gods presence. Yes, it was God who was pressen.

        And to show God`s delight in the faithful followers of Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit/God fell upon all and everyone.

        If we see God as Spirit, then God can be everywhere any place at the same time. this is why when we pray to God, God listen to all prayers wherever, whoever and all the time.

        1 Cor 3:16-17 – “Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you

        1 Cor 12:1-13 – “Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans, you were enticed and led astray to idols that could not speak. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God ever says “Let Jesus be cursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except by the Holy Spirit

        Gal 5:13-26 – “For you were called to freedom, brothers and sisters; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for self-indulgence, but through love become slaves to one another. 14 For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”… 16 Live by the Spirit, I say, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For what the flesh desires is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit desires is opposed to the flesh… 19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious… 22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things .


        This is what I believe in. The body of man is the carrying of the soul ruach / pneuma / ignis.

        This is not a physical thing such as the body (flesh, bones and blood). This is ”spirit”, we are talking about.

        God is spirit, Holy Ghost is spirit and (Col 2:9) For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form. And you have been made complete in Christ ……”
        quote end.

        Now, I am not talking about 3 different ”persons” Gods. I am talking about one God as given to us in Deuteronomy 6:4

        4″Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God,the LORD is one! 5″You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
        Quote end.

        So, what we know for sure is what happened on the day of Pentecost.

        God / ruach (that is the Holy Ghost) was there and showed it physically in wind, fire and speaking of tongues. The apostle Peter referred to the prophecy of Joel and in answer to their question (we might like to ask too) said to them:

        37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

        38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.

        And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

        39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
        quote end acts 2:37

        My comment; some will say that “this is not for today”. They can say, but I will focus on 1) what happens all over the world today and 2) on Gods words to the profet Joel:

        ” ….. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call”.

        This would be my contribution to the study of Acts 2 for now.

        Some will say no to this and I will not try to persuade them. If one only can say “Jesus is Lord by will of the Holy Ghost”, then what about this I have just written?

        Only when you let the Holy Spirit overcome your spirit, you will say this.

        My Christian love for all of you.

        • Peter K. (admin)


          We have been so nice, polite and fair with you, yet you keep breaking our rules. We are giving every opportunity to have a fair two way discussion and instead you ignore Chuck and I and you continue to evangelize. I try to follow God’s example. He is longsuffering. However, I am not sure how much more suffering I can take from you.

          You never answered our questions on ruach and the soul. You simply ignore us and continue to teach. Ouch! That hurts.

          When you quote from Wikipedia and other sources, please put in quotes and provide us with your source. You sound really smart when you copy and paste from other websites, however I don’t know if you even understand what you are pasting.

          Now Lincoln, I asked you to pick one topic. It looks like the topic you selected here is the Holy Spirit. So doctrinally, you need to stick to that topic only for now. Let’s have a discussion. I will give others a chance to comment first and you can respond to them. I will comment when I have time.

          Don’t break my heart Lincoln. You are a guest on our website. Let’s have a fair two way discussion. Stop playing the victim. We are giving you every opportunity to make your case. However, if you keep breaking the rules we will wave goodbye with tears.

          • Lincoln

            Hi Peter,

            Yes, and I thank you. I just don`t understand what happens so in this way I cannot continue. Maybe this is not Gods will so I will leave you.

            You are happy for your beliefs and I bless you. Hope you can keep my writings for another time and maybe you can use it all along.

            I am glad I had the chance to tell you my story and I will leave you in the best spirit.

            I have read many witnesses and I really appreciate it.

            That you do not understand my way of communicate I am sorry.

            All the best.

        • greg (Bible Student)


          I’m at war with myself. On the one hand I’m content to stay silent and let us part ways, each convinced in our own mind, and let God be found True. (Romans 3:4; Proverbs 21:2)

          On the other hand, there are readers who have not commented, who have followed our conversation silently, invisibly even. These are the ones I care about, as well as the ones who may yet come and read and be left with doubts and uncertainties of their own. It is because I care about them that I am prompted to respond.

          So rather than respond to many of the things you said which compel me to speak up and challenge, I choose to try and work within Br. Peter’s wishes and make my single question clear and simple:

          You said:
          “The Holy Spirit is a person, as Scripture makes clear. As such, He is to be revered as God and serves in perfect unity with Father and Son to lead us in our spiritual lives.

          [this is actually also the conclusion Charles Taze Russell came to.)”

          Please provide evidence for what you claim. Where did Br. Russell ever express such sentiments? I am ignorant and need to be educated, for I cannot find this thing you claim anywhere in any of Brother Russell’s writings. Please inform me that I may stand corrected.


          • Lincoln

            Dear Greg,

            You are a interesting person. I can easily follow you. But I cannot link to anything which I have been advised not to do.

            So I tried to make up things and this is not Wikipedia.

            I even think I already have given the link and quote, but I just don`t understand the “complaint”. So, maybe my English is so bad, that I make no sense.

            I wish you all the best.

            • Lincoln

              Dear Greg,

              Here is what I think you are asking me about:

              Russell promoted the worship of Jesus and prayer to him because he is our God.

              “It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11.

              Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. “When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, “And let all the angels of God worship Him.” Heb. 1:6.

              He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter–the leading apostle– “he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man.” …. Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship….”
              Zion’s Watch Tower 1892 May 15 p.157

              “It is undoubtedly proper enough for us to address petitions to our Redeemer and Advocate, who loved us and gave himself for us….Although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper so to do; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him.”
              Zion’s Watch Tower 1880 Oct. p.3

              “Question. The fact that our Lord received worship is claimed by some to be an evidence that while on earth he was God the Father disguised in a body of flesh and not really a man. Was he really worshiped, or is the translation faulty? Answer.

              Yes, we believe our Lord Jesus while on earth was really worshiped, and properly so. … It was proper for our Lord to receive worship in view of his having been the only begotten of the Father and his agent in the creation of all things, including man.” Zion’s Watch Tower 1898 July 15 p.216

              “In one respect many of Christendom could learn numerous important lessons from these wise Gentiles….They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience.”
              Zion’s Watch Tower 1906 Jan. 1 p.15

              Rutherford continued this teaching.

              “Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah’s purpose (Heb.:3-6).”
              Watchtower 1939 Nov. 15 p.339

              “During the Millennium, “the princes will lead the people in their worship of Jehovah and of Christ.”
              Vindication Volume 3 p.295

              “The people of all nations who obtain salvation must come to the house of the Lord to worship there; that is to say, they must believe on and worship Jehovah God and the Lord Jesus Christ, his chief instrument (Philippians 2:10, 11).”
              Salvation p.151

              Knorr continued to teach we should worship Jesus and the 1940’s Watchtower articles still stated that Jesus was to be worshipped.
              “Now, at Christ’s coming to reign as king in Jehovah’s capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him. … Since Jehovah God now reigns as King by means of his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah’s Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of The Theocracy.” Watchtower 1945 Oct. 15 p.313

              In 1945, Knorr amended the Watchtower Charter. Included within the new Charter is the statement that the purpose of the Watchtower Society is to promote the worship of Jehovah and Jesus. This charter is a legal document that continues to be the Watchtower Charter to this day. The 1945 Yearbook includes the Charter in full. Part of the current charter states as follows:

              “The purposes of this Society are: To act as the servant of and the legal world-wide governing agency for that body of Christian persons known as Jehovah’s Witnesses to preach the gospel of God’s kingdom under Christ Jesus unto all nations as a witness to the name, word and supremacy of Almighty Good JEHOVAH; to print and distribute Bibles and to disseminate Bible truths in various languages by means of making and publishing literature containing information and comment explaining Bible truths and prophecy concerning establishment of Jehovah’s kingdom under Christ Jesus to authorize and appoint agents, servants, employees, teachers, instructors, evangelists, missionaries and ministers to go forth to all the world publicly and from house to house to preach and teach Bible truths to persons willing to listen by leaving with such persons said literature and by conducting Bible studies thereon to improve men, women and children mentally and morally by Christian missionary work and by charitable and benevolent instruction of the people on the Bible and incidental scientific, historical and literary subjects to establish and maintain private Bible schools and classes for gratuitous instruction of men and women in the Bible, Bible literature and Bible history; to teach, train, prepare and equip men and women as ministers, missionaries, evangelists, preachers, teachers and lecturers to provide and maintain homes, places and buildings for gratuitous housing of such students, lecturers, teachers and minister; to furnish gratuitously to such students, lecturers, teachers, educators and ministers suitable meals and lodging and to prepare, support, maintain and send out to various parts of the world Christian missionaries, teachers and instructors in the Bible and Bible literature and

              for public Christian worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus;

              to arrange for and hold local and world-wide assemblies for such worship to use or operate radio broadcasting stations for preaching this gospel of the kingdom; and to do any and all other lawful things that its Board of Directors shall deem expedient for the purposes stated.”
              Click Here to download a 1.82 MB PDF scan of the 1945 Charter


              But as I said, I don’t understand this strange way.

              • greg (Bible Student)


                I ask you why the sky is blue and you proceed to tell me why grass should be green.

                I ask again: Where did Bro. Russell say the holy Spirit is a person?

                • Lincoln

                  Dear Greg,

                  Once again, thank you for your comment. This conversations is just as strange to me as I understand you feel. So, I will once again try to make myself clear. I may not success, but I will try.

                  So, I will do it this way;

                  Jacqueline (Bible Student)
                  August 28, 2016 at 11:19 am

                  Lincoln, I am in Chicago now in our Sunday meeting so I am not ignoring you buy I live 1hour 15 away. So I will read and write when I get home later this evening. I do have something I want to say to you, we share something in common. Take Care
                  PS We are studying the bible book Acts chapter 2 and I am downstairs in a little class. Also Br. Peter is here I will tell him hello for you.
                  quote end.

                  My comment:

                  Ok I think it is nice of Jacqueline to send such a nice comment to me. She actually te3lls me, that you are studding “Acts chapter 2”. With Brother Peter K words in mind I think this would be a fine place to start our “new” discussion. Peter wrote one minute before Jacqueline (11:19 / 11:18):

                  Peter K. (admin)
                  August 28, 2016 at 10:34 am · Reply
                  We are not throwing out what you say. We are giving you the opportunity to defend your views.

                  Peter K. (admin)
                  August 28, 2016 at 11:18 am
                  Is there a particular topic you would like to discuss with the group on this website. For example, would you like to discuss what is HELL? Is there eternal torment for unbelievers? Or would you like to select another topic we can all discuss together?
                  quote end.

                  My comment:

                  So, Greg, if you can understand my writings here, I actually do exactly what I am told (suggested). It was up to me to decide which topic and in line with what is going on I chose the “Holy Ghost” / the “Holy Spirit”).

                  Here is my answer:

                  Lincoln August 28, 2016 at 11:37 pm

                  Hi Peter,
                  Thank you for comment and suggestions as a topic; Hell. Well, we can always discuss it, but I understand people here are studying “Acts 2” and that I think would be appropriate to talk about; a little later for me.

                  and I do. The next day:

                  Lincoln August 29, 2016 at 7:46 am

                  Dear Jaqueline,

                  If you do not mind and with all respect for what you people here believe, I hope it is alright that I also tell what I believe?

                  I am not trying to overrule your teachings, but I think “we can talk about it”, right?

                  Will you allow me to give this explanation as how I understand the event happened on the day of Pentecost?

                  quote Jaqueline:

                  We are studying the bible book Acts chapter 2 and I am downstairs in a little class. Also Br. Peter is here I will tell him hello for you.
                  quote end.

                  My comment:

                  I like when you just talk like this. One side of the Gospel ”the Holy Spirit” and the Christian life is ”interest and study and love for the word of Jesus”…………………………

                  So, Greg after this follows my answer with the information as how I understand what happened on the day of Pentecost. IN the same “breath” I would have loved to show you things from You Tube from the congregations of Born Again Christians, but something is the matter with you guys computers and you get infected when you surf on the internet and the Links I give. I have always gone trough the links and there is nothing wrong. But something happens when you get them. Very strange.

                  Now, after my long explanation of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2) I get this very strange comment from Peter; something about he don`t like it “since it is something I found on Wikipedia”.

                  I must say, after working a ling time on this and writing it down I am very surprised to this reaction. This was / are my words.

                  And now you ask me about the sky and the grass?

                  I will say it this way. Acts 2 is a fine place to start (as Peter suggested and Jacqueline told me) and so I did. Here it is clear that Charles Taze Russell is teaching to worship Jesus as I have been saying all the time.

                  Now, we Christians to not have either 2 or 3 gods, so to worship Jesus (as Charles Taze Russell proves), we are actually in the Christian context worshipping God since we only have one God. Deuteronomy chapter 6 vers 4.

                  In my long “explanations” I gave I talk about the Ruach / Pneuma and the spirit within us (our soul)

                  So, not to spread all over I just chose this Acts chapter 2.

                  I wonder (as you mention something about) everyone else who are perhaps reading along. I would have liked for others to view this information from Charles Taze Russell as to worship Jesus.

                  I have been talking with Jehovah Witnesses about this (Charles Taze Russell prove about worshipping Jesus) but they first of all said that he never wrote that and second they don`t believe what Charles Taze Russell may or may not have said. They have “new light” to day.

                  Should you ask me another year or perhaps 10 years, my answer would be the same. I can see that when I look back in the comments I have given 10 years ago and this thing has not changed ever since it happened on the day of Pentecost. Ruach was there.

                  thank you Greg.

                  • Peter K. (admin)


                    Greg asked you to prove your claim that Brother Russell taught that the Holy Spirit is a person.

                    In answer, you provided evidence that Brother Russell taught we should worship Jesus. So you keep talking and talking, but you have not yet answered our questions to you. You never answered Chuck’s questions or my questions.

                    My recommendation to you is that you spend time honestly reading and studying the Bible. Focus more on learning, less on teaching.

                    Someday when you learn how to have a respectful two way conversation where you actually answer qyestions, maybe then you can return to our website. For now, you are wasting our time. We like having respectful discussions here. We do not like being lectured and preached at. Bye now.

                • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                  Hi Greg, I sincerely think someone is playing with us here. I have stopped encouraging it. There is definitely a problem, I just don’t know who is behind it. That is my assessment. Take Care

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    To Lincoln,
    You may tell you story here of your experience in or coming out of the Jehovah witnesses organization and your journey.
    I read what you wrote and it is the slave and black experience. Most on here are aware of the slave/black experience but will be benefited by knowing your religious experience in this regard.
    We absolutely can’t atone for all the injustices you bring up with the witnesses we listen but we can’t answer some concerns you have to go to their website to talk.
    The slave/black experience have a lot of websites or I might suggest you start a blog on those issues or a facebook page is probably best.
    We simply can’t go all over the place with you on your subjects.
    Links infect people computers and cellphones. Mine got infected. I will not post a link unless I know the person or the source.
    I will go back to my habit and not click on links where their source is from all over and I can’t in good conscience approve links that might infect a person’s devise.
    Also you posted a lot of chants and songs.Culturally I have many friends from the Congo and am aware of some of what you post but this is not the website to go off into this.
    You are very intelligent I can tell from your posts but try to stay within guidelines with your links. You will always go into moderation with the type of links you post. When you flash across them they show up just like most spam links. I don’t think this audience will be listening and chanting to the links you present. They are about the Bible not going off into something else. I hope I am not being too blunt but that is just my personality to spit it out and I am not trying to offend but ask you not to mess up a good comment of yours with song and other links. Take Care

    • Lincoln

      Thank you Jacqueline,

      Yes, I understand and I have already spoken with Peter about it. This is very surprising to me. I will not try to justify my habit of posting those links. I am very surprised what you say about your computers getting infected.

      That is new to me. Does it mean, that you never open webpages on the Internet just so?

      It is the same Internet I use.

      Thank you Jacqueline. I will tell you friends here my story another day.

      • Jacqueline (Bible student)

        Lincoln it was not my computer but my phone. And I got the warning message but i was to slow, fixed the problem now. I know you can’t vouch for links and what is attached to them. And my son is a computer guy and no, I/ we are very careful about clicking on links from all over the internet. He
        preaches this to us not to be so curious. Lol. Take Care

    • Lincoln

      Dear Jacqueline, my spiritual sister in the Lord Jesus Christ trough the communion in the “Blood and the Body”; that is the bread and the wine.

      I will try to tell my story easy and slowly so all of you can benefit from it. I myself have no fear from any Organisations or any man who could possibly harm me. I am in Christ and therefore the love I now have, “bares not fear”.

      You wrote: “I read what you wrote and it is the slave and black experience. Most on here are aware of the slave/black experience but will be benefited by knowing your religious experience in this regard”.
      quote end.

      My comment:

      OK, the reason I mentioned this and gave you (from my heart) the beautiful songs and music; that is those peoples testimonies.

      Once they were slaves, but now they are Kings (Kings together with Jesus Christ). Imagine the children and the women, just for a moment.

      “Once was lost, but now found”.

      And the men, the lynching, the whip and the abuse of all of them. Then President Lincoln gave room for them in the society. (my “nickname” Lincoln)

      1) “Just one month after writing this letter, Lincoln issued his first Emancipation Proclamation, which announced that at the beginning of 1863, he would use his war powers to free all slaves in states still in rebellion (as they came under Union control)”.
      quote end.

      2) “Passed by Congress on January 31, 1865, and ratified on December 6, 1865, the 13th amendment abolished slavery in the United States and provides that “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or ..”
      quote end.

      I could keep on with the records, but as you yourself says; your are well aware of it. But to me, it never ends. I keep seeing this poor people overrun by the white people again and again (and sometimes even by their own).

      So, when I see the love for Jesus expressed in the Christian songs and music, I commit myself to join them (in the spirit) and when I can.

      1 Corinthians 12:3 “You know that when you were pagans, you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,”

      and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

      4 There are different gifts, but the same Spirit.…”
      quote end.

      My comment:

      So simple is it. “Things” are not always as “things” looks like.

      I am sure you do not expect me to tell my story right here, but I will say; give me some time.

      I will tell you a little story, a few years ago (I think it was 4 years ago).

      I have been working by the Theatre in Copenhagen for quite some years. I have been doing scenography constructions with a team.

      So, I have many friends there and once in a while they invite me to the Theatre to se a show. After we have bear and talk.

      That one evening I was sitting in the City bus in front looking out on the traffic. I drive myself (as I can understand you do a lot) so I watched the traffic.

      All of a sudden I se something is going to happen. One car try to pull out just in front of the bus and I grab with both hands to hold on.

      From a quirt drive in the bus he catastrophe brakes and the bus ended in the opposite direction and all the passengers came rolling down the middle.

      In a moment when things like this happens everyone are almost paralysed. I had the nerve to tell the bus driver to call the police and the ambulance and his office; and said that he was not going to drive more that day.

      I looked down the bus and there on the floor was a lady ling and yes, she was black. On her side stood another black lady and did not know what to do. I went and told her that the ambulance was coming and gave her my cart so if they wanted they could call me and I would help with some sort of compensation from the bus company.

      After 2 seeks she called me (the lady on the floor). She had a very serious injury and was a little confused what to do now.

      We arranged a meeting on a public office and we spoke. She was a born again Christian from Ethiopia and had a long story to tell. (surprise)

      I do not know how much you know about that, but after the great hunger in 1988 and four years ahead Audrey Hepburn became UN ambassador to UNISEF, she helped the people.

      War came and in the surrounding countries and people was taken prison and enrolled in many war activities.

      From one of these FN refugees camps, this black girl came to Denmark, with scares on her soul, but finely she met Jesus. He was the black lady on the floor of the bus, the other one was her daughter.

      And then 24 years after I met her.

      Many things follow me in intervals. “10 years, 40 years, 5 years etc.

      Now she was sick and once again, other people had to fight for her. This time I was the one.

      So, after some time I did some research and the company was not going to pay her for damage, but I took the company to court and she got a big compensation after 3 years.

      So, many things has happened ever since with this lady and her little son has become a Christian and baptised in the Holy Spirit. We are still waiting for her adult daughter, but she will come.

      This is not the only one experience I have had, they come all the time, the black people for me to comfort them and assist them in many ways.

      I cannot tell everything, but once they are safe with Jesus they do fine. This is my way to pay back for the transgressing they have had as a people.

      Now, I don`t start to explain any calculations about any years or dogmas or speculations on heaven or earth.

      All thy need is Jesus. Once that happens, everything else fall into place.

      After her accident she got this licence in her car to help disable people parking special places. Some of her pain has now gone.

      It happened this way; one day this summer she told me her son was to go to a youth meeting with prayer and salvations of the Holy Spirit, prayer and songs. Very powerful.

      On the Sunday service she also went (she told me this) and a large group of teenagers and children and some adults from USA were there.

      Singing, preaching and mostly praying. They called up for prayer and she went up.

      She were carrying this pain in her neck after the accident and ask to be prayed for. They did twice and the pain went away.

      This is a little story from everyday life and millions of people coming to Jesus all over the wold are experience this.

      They did not study. They did not baptised (after yes), and they did not know very much about the Bible, but Jesus loves them so much. And so should we. Just love them.

      I would have loved to give evidence from YouTube, but not.

      To day my wife (she is also coloured) went to an antique market. We have been before and met this young lady from Mauritius. She is seeing this Danish man. Last time I found out he comes actually from a family of Jehovah`s Witnesses.

      He told me. I was talking to him about this Mauritius lady because I was so sad on her behalf. You should see her.

      Her hands and fingers and neck and face. I asked him what had happened and he told me she, when 19 years old was a victim of a gas explosion and got so very bad injured and burned. I cry.

      When I see that sort of things, I cannot hold back and must go and tell about Jesus and therefore he told me of his family Jehovah`s Witnesses.

      So to day we went to bless them.

      I will not bother you more to day. some other day I will tell you about how I left Jehovah`s Witnesses more the less, how they told the congregation that I was not one to associate with.

      In Jesus Christ your brother I am Niels Lundgreen.

    • Lincoln

      OK, sister Jacqueline and others here.

      I will begin to tell my story.

      My family started study with JW in the beginning of 1950th. First my mom and then father and then we three children. I was about 8 years old and we, my 2 sisters just did what father and mother did and said.

      We had a very good time and good friends and children for us to play with yes a good life.

      Finely when I became teenager I began to take this more serious. So, one assembly me and my friend thought we would do as all others, get baptised. So we did. I must have been 14.

      After this you can say I got involved and started witnessing, participate theocratic school and getting responsibility in Kingdom Hall.

      Everything was fine and we and I was happy. But it happened in 1961 to the big International assembly in Copenhagen Denmark, I met all these foreign brothers and sisters. I was 17.

      I met some from abroad in 1954 (I think it was) in Stockholm and I got this very strange feeling of “getting out to see the world”.

      I remember South Pacific when it was shown here in Denmark, I lost my heart to the Pacific. (it would take me a little more than 25 years before I eventually went.

      I went to live on the island of Sri Lanka (Ceylon) for more than a year and a little travel of 3 month in Bombay India. I am sure the brothers in the office in Bombay still remembers me. I got sick there and was in hospital, but survived. This was 1975.

      But after this assembly in Copenhagen 1961 I decided to emigrate as 18 years old. I did, to Canada. I also am sure people there remembers me. I lived in Toronto and associated with a congregation on Dundee Street. I had so many fine friends there and I miss them sometimes. What a great time.

      To the assembly in Copenhagen 1961 I met a lot of friends from USA and was introduced to many. Also the black brothers and sisters. I was 17 and well, girls has interest.

      But after a couple of years (I had to finish school) I bought a one-way ticket to Canada. In the meantime I had part-time been trained and worked for a Landscaper / gardener here in Denmark (a Jehovah’s Witnesses)and was very good doing this,

      so when I came to Canada; this Danish man (certainly not a Jehovah`s Witnesses) had invited me; he had this big Landscaping company and now, I was the only one who had a formal “education” in Landscaping.

      After 1½ year I went back to Denmark and after another year I married a Danish sister. 1964

      But after 6 years we broke up and I was disfellowshiped, but came back soon again, but this time I was alone. So, so time went by. This is
      when I went to live on Ceylon (Sri Lanka). I associated with the brothers there and everyone was happy to meet me there. Also in Bombay they loved me. This was in 1975-1976

      Coming back to Denmark I remarried and we got this child (now a nice young daughter of 33 years)

      My x the mother of this child and I divorced because she found another man she liked better than me. Bad luck for me and began a couple of years, very tough for me.

      My daughter then 9 years old, my x-wife wanted her to go to a club for young once and I thought it was not safe for her (I was still a Jehovah`s Witnesses).

      My x-wife was not disfellowshiped and everything was very like, dreamlike.

      I had this feeling of walking around in a sleep and a bad dream.

      Well, I had been attracted to the Pentecostal people in Copenhagen both trough the TV and listen at night (I was alone) to their radio program, but also because I found out they had a class for children of the age of my daughter and my x-wife was agree that it could not harm.

      So, one Sunday I brought my daughter to the Pentecostal club for young children and thought I might just as well stay there as long as it lasted.

      That you can say I should not have done.

      I have never in my hole life seen or heard anything like this before. The first I thought was; are the Witnesses some how? Or, who are those people? It was like a lightning had hit me.

      After some time (I came back) I thought I should invite Jehovah`s Witnesses to come and see for themselves. In the study group I attended (now you must remember, everyone was very happy, I was happy and they were happy, also in the Kingdom Hall) and I thought I would share this wonderful experience with them.

      This they did not want. One day I was invited to a party with Jehovah`s Witnesses to meet other brothers sand sisters who were alone. I could not help to tell about all the wonderful things I had experienced, but they did not agree.

      One called the preceding overseer of the congregation, my very good friend who often allowed me to express “thoughts” to the meetings.

      Well after some time, they announced to the congregation; that

      “I was not to be associated with, since I had left the Jehovah`s Witnesses Organisation”.

      I was there to that meeting. I said to myself that I would look at them when they announced this.

      But everything was very quiet. No big deal. This was 1991 or 1992.

      After 5 years with much blessings and love, I met the wife I have now. She is a coloured girl and we have been married now for 20 years. I think and hope we shall stay together for ever. I will tell you how I met her, next time.

      We are not associating deeply with the Pentecostal church in Copenhagen for the time being (that is another long story) but what we have is Jesus. We associate with almost everyone who loves Jesus and we have had so many fantastic experiences about this.

      After (for me) 25 years as a born again Christian, it is like it was just yesterday.

      Sunday service her in our home we got this word from Jesus: Mark 2:1-12

      “5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” ”
      quote end.

      My comment:

      This is how it is. Jesus talks to your heart all the time.

      Now, then I met you people here. I don`t know you, but I must say that you are very kind. I will stay here for a while and talk with you and maybe we can find out of some things. My hope is you will meet Jesus and be baptised with the Holy Spirit.

      You are right, we are a large group of Christians seeking Jesus. I don`t care about all the calculations or the Pyramid Theology, but I will respect you have this ideas.

      To end this long letter to you I will say: thank you Peter for welcome me here. And to you Jacqueline, this was crystal clear to me in the midst of all this here; The moment when you told me about your holy communion with the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) I knew it.

      This will be all for now.

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        Lincoln thank you for sharing your experiences. I see you are grounded and okay from your experience with the witnesses and you and your wife are in the Pentecostal religion and are happy with it. Glad to hear that.
        I spend my time talking and helping those that have not done so well with coming out of the witnesses. I don’t have the energy to get in discussions with other religions, if they are happy with their relationship that is not any of my business. I am glad they believe in Christ and in the new world it will prove to be an advantage. I also can’t on this website discuss all the things believed by other religions. This is a specific website for:
        THOSE THAT ARE TRYING TO ADJUST AFTER THEY HAVE DECIDED TO LEAVE THE WITNESSES. Also it is a reference website to explain the changes and doctrines and thoughts before the split after Br. Russell died.
        You are not interested in that but others are interested. Websites have to remain true to subjects or people tune out when they see things that they aren’t interested in.
        For instance your thoughts would be better on a separate website or facebook page explaining your thoughts to ejx. The comments can be very long and people will dialogue with you on that.
        We can’t do it here, this is not a free for all website. Jehovah witnesses and xJw would not as you know be interested in the Pentecostal experience on this website but if your congregations has a website they now know they can find out about it. It has been a pleasure talking with you and I hope you continue to use this site as a reference site if you desire. Take Care. Jacqueline

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