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Ask Jacqueline

Hello my name is Jacqueline and I was a loyal witness for over 60 yrs. I moved when the organization moved.  I have been an aux. and a regular pioneer, aiding many to come to a knowledge of the truth.  I am a third generation witness.  I have many family members who are still witnesses.  My Crisis of Conscience began when I became aware of the governing body’s great influence and encroachment on Jesus’ place in the congregation.  It seems he was mentioned less and less each year, but the governing body scores of times during the meetings.  I left in August 2009 and went back to the original Bible Students in January 2010.  As a” Holistic Alternative Psychology Practitioner”, I was also disturbed over the many pedophile cases that came my way, done by elders and other brothers within the congregation.  I made the society aware.  Little did I know it created a file on me in Bethel.  I thought I was making them aware of something they didn’t know about.  I was wrong. They already knew and threatened to disfellowship me if I cooperated with one case.  I had a ” CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE” and went in “SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM” IN CHRIST.

I am here only to help ones that have come to a crisis where “THEY” have decided to leave the Corporation, need help and Christian Fellowship.  Sometimes we don’t know where to go.  So it is with this attitude and mindset of the Lord Christ Jesus that I want to do what I can, if the Lord permits. Additionally, I prayed hard before deciding to reach out and help if someone needed it. I could have been satisfied with just escaping myself. I was on a sinking luxury ship, I prayed for help. And along came a little  TUGBOAT. (The Bible Students). How could I not throw the lifeline to the ones that had jumped without knowing about the little Tugboat. Torgue, Tug placement and Momentum allows a little tugboat to pull even a big ship. There is lots of room on board for those that need something less polished, sleek, fancy and slick. Just plain old Bible , Jehovah and Jesus. No fancy building, just love and trust. The little Tugboat was sent by Jehovah I feel to rescue me and others, that need something that just sticks to the Bible without Big Corporation laws and by-laws.

Ask a  question, share your experience, or just blog and talk.  We all would love to hear from you.  This is a fear- free zone.  Comment on questions, reply, or just follow our blog.

In Christ,  Jacqueline.

Ask Jacqueline

2,698 comments to Ask Jacqueline

  • Ellis Green

    I just want to say how encouraging this site has been for me as I’ve drifted out from JW after nearly 60 years of being one. I must admit I still feel apprehensive about Armageddon so can anyone put my mind at rest with some personal ideas as to what helped anyone here? I have listened to some of the talks on the links, which have been so refreshing; I just need a little more encouragement please.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Hi Ellis,

      So many little and not-so-little things have helped me in overcoming the fear of Armageddon I had been taught to have that it’s really difficult to pick just one. And I don’t imagine that my picking just one would be very likely to forever put an end to your uncertainties and anxieties. So maybe I’ll briefly offer a sampling that come to mind and we can make a small start there.

      1) If all things are possible for Jehovah God, and if He’s infinitely wiser and more powerful than Satan, how could Jehovah be OK with coming in second place, “second banana” as it were? How could Jehovah be OK with Satan getting the lion’s share of Humanity to follow him (Satan, that is)? Wouldn’t Jehovah have already conceived of and prepared for some wiser plan that would far outshine Satan’s methods?

      2) If mankind was made in Jehovah’s image and it seems totally unfair and unacceptable to our own built-in, God-given values that we could be judged so permanently when we can also see how easy it is for us to be uncertain and deceived, how could Jehovah God consider it true justice to judge people so permanently when he knows better than we do how many lies and conflicting ideas there are in the present world for us to try and wade through?

      3) Have you ever been tricked? Have you even been “conned”? How do we feel when we hear news reports about victims who have been swindled out of their life’s savings? The Bible says Eve was thoroughly deceived. Does it reflect true justice even in our own imperfect minds to harshly and permanently condemn her for having been tricked?

      4) How can Jehovah repeatedly say in Ezekiel (7:23-27; 36:33-38; and dozens of other instances) “The nations will have to know that I am Jehovah” if the great majority are all going to be dead in the end, especially when the Bible also says the dead are “conscious of nothing”?

      5) Genesis 8:21 suggests to me that God will never again destroy all living things. What do you make of it?

      6) When the Bible says, that the “Wicked will be no more”, is there ONLY ONE possible way of creating that kind of world? Do millions of persons absolutely HAVE to die? Or does that “solution” sound as though it lacks imagination? Might it be that God can imagine a time and a way of getting there when even the ones currently DOING wicked things are eventually going to learn to love God and their neighbors and themselves? If you were God, which way would you prefer? And if you were all-powerful, which way would you choose to use your power: to terrify and destroy? or to guide and influence? If you invested love, time and energy to create a magnificent work of art, would you be content to let someone come along and steal away or ruin all but a teenie-tiny fragment of it?

      Those thoughts help me resolve my own uncertainties. How about you? Do they help even a tiny bit, or do you maybe still need or want more reassurance?

      Warmly and compassionately,
      -greg

      P.S.

      Incidentally, I had initially tried to include many scripture references. Then I chose to remove them again because I could not help but notice how difficult it might be for someone to read those scriptures as God intended them, rather than how the Governing Body and Jehovah’s Witnesses have distorted them. You may need to work at it a bit to see God’s plan, His Love, and a solid basis for optimism.

      So, I’ll give you a trail of bread crumbs to follow: I suggest that since God IS love, then everything He does originates in some way out of love and incorporates love as the goal. And in trying this idea out myself, I found that I could re-perceive almost every scripture with true, pure, undistorted, Godly love woven throughout. What a different lens to view the Bible through!!

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Ellis hi, when I used to geel some anxiety many years ago I go straight to the Bible and listen to Jesus. Read John start at chapter 12 go thru Acts at least. Also why have 1,000 yr and the little season after that if Judgement day is at Armageddon. Think there is no full knowledge of Jehovah today why even those that associated with this “so called god’s organization” are confused. So at Armageddon he judges the world and puts them in Gehenna. Jesus doesn’t have the keys to Gehenna. I would believe the mominal churches view on duing at death for good or jeaven, it makes more sense. The witnesses have done a mind indoctrination into their cult to the point it is difficult to adjust. The articles on here about armageddon and judgement day, using the bible and your power of reason should still your fears and calm your heart dear Ellis. I would beg for his Spirit to dwell in you and with you as Jesus promised in John.
      Billions no doubt will survive the great time of trouble along with the great multitude left here.
      Trust Jesus. Study HIS every word. He just isnt like the governing body presentation of him. He had saved all of mankind, worship him, worship JEHOVAH no the governing body of the witness organization.

      • Ellis Green

        Jacqueline, thanks for that; Greg too. I read John and it was so encouraging. I also read Revelation as so much of that book deals with our day and the 1000 year Reign, although the 7 congregations were applicable then. In Rev 20 it mentions the “lake of fire” and identifies it as the Second death. It mentions that the ONLY humans that go there are those who fail the final test after 1000 years! No mention of humans going there at Armageddon! How reassuring that is!

        In Matthew 25 it mentions Jesus coming in power with his angels and starts judging sheep and goats, sheep get everlasting life goats do not. Now you’ll remember how JWs think that this applies only at Armageddon as the Day of Judgment is different from Judgment Day; one is a short space of time the other is 1000 years. But I can now see that the Day of Judgment is when the System ends and is replaced by the start of New System that also starts Judgment Day so the judging of sheep and goats takes 1000 years not just a couple of days or whatever. The final judgment is after 1000 years NOT Armageddon! And as Rev 20 states that only then are humans thrown into lake of fire. So much clearer now, why didn’t I see that before? WT dogma?

        Also John 3 speaks of God loving the world so much he sent Jesus, not to condemn the world, or destroy it, but TO SAVE IT. How can you save the world of mankind if you wipe out 99% of it? Completely nuts!!

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Wow Ellis, what a God! You put it in a nutshell. Holy spirit has power doesn’t it? Your comment had hurt my heart to see you aftaid of the most Loving Personage in existence and his son exactly equally as loving for they are one in their thoughts and actions concerning a desperate begging creation, MAN.
          I plan to take a walk in a beautiful park today and get next to him and thank him for rescuing us from the domineering hand of that God dishonoring organization.
          So glad the spirit activated your mind to see this truth about God.
          Armageddon is judgement day on this system, it will come down and all people will bow their knee before the KING!

        • Richard Tazzyman

          Hello again Ellis,Good to see your post.Yes it is the systems of mankind,Religious,political,Financial& the great armys of this system that will disapear,not the people.The only ones who will see the second death at this time are the ones who have come to a proper Understanding of Gods word,consecrated,have had a relationship with Christ & our heavenly Father & then turned their backs on it & have sinned against the holy spirit.The JWs have declared themselves as Judges by saying that only they will be saved at Armageddon.Regards from Bro Richard

          • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

            Br. Richard hello, may I ask for further explanation that indicates there will be judgement on those that have sinned against the holy spirit at Armageddon. Thank you

    • Richard Tazzyman

      Hello Again ,Ellis,Mark 3.29 & Mathew 12.31 Speak about Sinning against the Holy Spirit,& These ones are described in Hebrews 10.26 & Hebrews 6.4-6. This can apply to the annointed,but seeing that they will have already have passed on before the end,It will apply to the Great multitude who come out of the great tribulation with their robes washed in the blood of the lamb standing before the Throne.If any members of this class do not live up to their consecration there is no redeeming them,so they suffer the second death.Hope these scriptures are clear as to relating to the end times.Christian Regards Ellis.

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        Br. Richard, this is a new thought to me. I will go thru all of the scriptures first to see if I see how you draw this conclusion. This makes for some thoughtful conversation and digging. Take care

      • Ellis Green

        Hi Richard,

        I think I see your point, but Revelation 20 still only mentions those going in lake of fire as being after final test after 1000 year Reign. Some things can be just “educated guesses” and this may be one of those! Another one of those “wait and see” or “cross that bridge when you get there” type of things. The important thing I suppose is to try and do your personal best at living a Christian life and you’ll always have a future. Jesus promised everlasting life for “the sheep” and that’s good enough for me.

      • Peter K. (admin)

        Richard,

        Good points. In agreement and stated another way, since Pentecost, the only people subject to second death are the ANOINTED, those of the New Creation that have received the Holy Spirit and Justification to life through Jesus Ransom sacrifice. These have been baptized into Christ and have their judgment now. (2 Cor 6:2; 2 Peter 2:1; Hebrews 6:4-6; 10:26-29) A small number of this group, turn AGAINST Jesus and God and reject them both, turning to a sinful and evil life. These are subject to second death if they do not repent. This possibility of second death could continue up to Armageddon for any of the ANOINTED who still remain on earth, the last of which are the Great Crowd, who will receive a lessor reward than the Bride of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:10-15).

        Once ALL the ANOINTED have died and the Bride of Christ are all with Jesus in spirit bodies, they will deliver the nation of Israel (Ezekiel 38, Zechariah 14) and begin the resurrection of the dead. After the 1,000 years, during the Little Season, those who reject Jehovah and follow Satan will be destroyed in the lake of fire (representing second death / complete destruction) – see Revelation 20:7-14; 21:8. Yet prior to that, during the 1,000 years, if after a 100 years in the earthly kingdom, an individual is still an immature child, so to speak and has rejected the kingdom and not grown to a spiritual adult, these also will be subject to the second death (Isaiah 65:20).

        Thanks for the stimulating discussion and thanks for the wonderful service you perform leading weekend testimony meetings for those that can call in and join.

    • zionsherald

      Hello Ellis,

      Its very difficult to put the things we’ve been taught previously behind us and try to review everything we learned from a new perspective and without any preconceived ideas. Its even more true when it comes to fear, and especially true of fear that organizations use to control their members.

      Armageddon is not a tool the Lord will use to destroy unbelievers, but it will teach them that he is in charge. Zechariah 12 and 14 illustrates how the Lord will pour out his spirit on the unbelievers during the final battles of Armageddon and they will recognize him and worship him. Note that Zechariah 14:16 states specifically that the unbelieving nations that will go against Jerusalem in those days will worship the Lord. Their blindness will be removed and they will worship him.

      Have you heard the recorded discussion we did on this subject some time back?

      You can listen to it at the link here —

      http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2017/09/09/feb-4-conference-call-who-will-survive-armageddon-only-those-in-the-jehovahs-witness-organization-ark/

      • Ellis Green

        Hi Zionsherald,

        Thanks for your comments – I too feel so much better after reading what everyone’s said here. This is fantastic!!

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Ellis, we are on the testimony meeting now and Henry just made a point. He said where the sinning against the holy spirit is mentioned is armageddon mentioned in that context? Conversely, where armageddon is mentioned is sinning against the holy spirit mention in the context. One would have to go out of context to link Judgement day of the systems with Judgement day on mankind.
      Now this is me speaking. So we do have hope. We have so many at different stages of this journey of healing and for our fragile ones:
      Don’t be afraid of armageddon to directly answer your question. Jesus came not to judge the world but to save it.
      John 3:17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
      John 12:47 I will not judge those who hear me but don’t obey me, for I have come to save the world and not to judge it.
      So I conclude for myself that armageddon is not judgement day for mankind and that day is fearful but not to cause us to be scared, it must come for Jesus to take power and judge and help mankind during the thousand year period.

      • Ellis Green

        Jacqueline, thank you so much for your comment; so encouraging and I feel so much better! I really do feel that your comment was a literal answer to my prayers! Its not just my own neck I’m concerned about but my 3 kids. My ex-wife was DF’d for changing from JW to Pagan and my 2 daughters are Pagan, and my 14 year old grand-daughter is now interested in Paganism. When I hear that non-JW family are to be shunned and wiped out then I think “what the hell happens to my kids?” I get so angry when snooty stuck-up GB members who’ve never had kids make these blaise remarks!

        Funny how John 3:16 gets quoted by WT but not verse 17.

        Thanks again, this site is so good!

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Ellis, I agonized over you all week I felt there was more and that we hadn’t addressed it. I brought it up at testimony meeting last night. With their help we talked it through on what you were really asking, it helped me to look deeper. Didnt know about your family and now we know. Jehovah and Jesus knew. Thank you for the additional info several of us had you on our mind. Those babies and their mom will be under our King and redeemer also. He has dealt with worse. Remember Legion, outright demonic possession by many. Jesus spoke and it was done! It seems the demons obey and fear the power of Christ more than us humans at times. Some fear the governing bodies of some of the religious structures more than they do Jesus.
          So don’t worry. God got this, demons are no match for him when Jesus teach the Truth in the millennium. Take care

          • Ellis Green

            Thanks again Jacqueline, and I appreciate your concern for me. I must make more of an effort to listen in on your meetings. Any chance of listening to past meetings? I ffel so much better. And thanks to the other bros and sis.

            • greg (Bible Student)

              Hi Ellis,

              I find it interesting that you asked about possibly listening to recordings of past testimony meetings. We talked about that very issue this week. We currently have a general consensus that we don’t want to record the meetings because we want them to be safe places for persons joining. We don’t want them to worry that what they’ve said might somehow come back to haunt them. We want person who are speaking to know that we respect their concerns for privacy and confidentiality.

              And as much as I wholeheartedly believe taking that stance to be vital, I can also see some of the drawbacks. For example, sometimes individuals want to know what they’re getting into, what they can expect. And then others, like yourself, maybe can’t attend for various reasons, but don’t want to miss out.

              I would like to mention that if anyone wants to “check out” one of the testimony meetings in a safe, or even a less-public way, I’m sure we can arrange something.

              Meantime, for anyone who is understandably nervous about joining, I’d like to mention that you don’t need to use your real name, you don’t need to say a single word, you can simply listen in, and you can easily disconnect at any time you wish without having to explain.

              We’re working very hard to provide a safe, warm, kind, gentle, friendly, non-judgemental environment for everyone who joins. And we’ve even had some feedback from individuals who were very anxious at first but who have since expressed delight at how much they enjoyed the support and the experience.

              Warmly,
              -greg

              • Ellis Green

                Hi Greg,

                Point taken; message received and understood! Seriously though, I was just curious. I must join in and I see the Europe time is 5pm but in UK I think we’re an hour behind? I’ll come on the site at 4 pm and see what happens while I’m cooking my dinner! I’d like to join in especially if people are there that I’ve already had contact with on here. And I’ll be writing my story on Testimonial section this week, as some have asked me to do.

                Don’t worry Greg, with me a “spade’s a spade” and what you see is what you get. I can be a bit direct but I think my heart’s in the right place!

                I haven’t seen many notes from Peter k lately; is he OK?

                • ZionsHerald

                  Ellis,

                  I see that you live in the UK. I will be visiting London in late July for a few days. I hope to visit London and West Wickham. Do you live anywhere near the area?

                  • Ellis Green

                    Hi there Zionsherald,

                    I used to live in Kent, not too far from London, but now live in Cornwall so if you’re ever down this way just give me a call and we can meet up. Excellent food down here apart from Cornish pasties, although they are delicious! Would you like my email?

                  • Richard Tazzyman

                    Hello Zions Herald,We also will be in the UK In Late July early August for the Highleigh convention.We usally always visit west wickham class before of after the convention.Sister Kay & I would love to catch up with you if you are still around.Also we hope to get to Yeovil class as well as we always visit Bro Peter Webb & his wife Julia.Christian Love Bro Richard & Sister Kay Tazzyman

                    • Ellis Green

                      Richard, any chance I could meet you in Yeovil when you come over? Love to meet you, and I’ve already had an invite from Peter Webb to join for the Memorial. I can’t make the Memorial or Convention this year (next year is a must) but I can make Yeovil in summer.

                • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                  Ellis, Br Peter is fine. He moderates and sees all comments. Witnesses have a unique mindset to overcome as well as correct. Now we have xjw elders and xjw sisters and brothers that can step up to the plate because they understand the very different challenges xjw face. He jumps in when needed, post and edit articles, emails and text. Keep our Wednesday night and other meetings on track.
                  So although you don’t see him he is moderating.
                  So figure out your time, whether Europe or North America and I will let the group know. Australia is 2 and 3 am for me so it might be difficult for me on that one as my beauty sleep is needed to keep up appearances. Lol

                  • just stay sweet and good

                    Jacqueline. I remember reading the book about the highway to holiness and the drying up up of the Red Sea way back in the 1970’s in one of the WTBS books we studied at the home bible study groups. It was easy to understand because I had already accepted Jesus as my personal savior and did not think I was required to “go thru” any body else. The explanation about a child dying though just a hundred years old was given to show that even in the millenium progress would be expected, no one will just sit and not make a commitment to the new reigning KING, JESUS THE ANOINTED ONE and his helper bride. It has been a conscience raising journey for me to understand that a lot of people just don’t progress. Its like a brother said up in Colorado, some are like they are still born they never become born, in other words, no new birth takes place. Are they lost because they do not truly hear the call. or are they lost because they do not respond. Is this what is meant when Jesus said: “there is where the knashing of teeth will be”? Just because they will knash their teeth does that mean they are lost?

                    • greg (Bible Student)

                      just stay sweet and good,

                      One thing I try to keep clear in my own mind is that now is not the time for expecting everyone to grow in ways that are measurably noticeable. In the Peaceful Paradise persons who have been previously stunted in Satan’s world will be able to flourish in the righteous conditions. In that coming Kingdom there will be no fear, no hurt, no trauma, no falsehoods, no defensive distortions, no pervasive spirit of selfishness, no health concerns, no disabilities, no distractions, no unhealthy influences to prevent persons from growing to their maximum potential.

                      Even today, when I work with persons who have been traumatized, or who seem “stagnant”, if I can but provide an encouraging environment of compassion and support, I am never surprised, but always amazed at how quickly persons can and do change and grow. It’s not always easy, but if I look hard enough, I never fail to see the imbued and unsquashable image of God still glittering within persons. This leaves me thoroughly excited and optimistic to imagine what it will be like for mankind when Jesus and his bride begin to take care of all humanity’s needs.

                      -greg

          • Ellis Green

            Thanks all for helping me deal with Armageddon but I have one more question about surviving it – what about the 2 roads Jesus mentioned where a narrow road leads to life and few find it, and the broad road leading to destruction that many are on?

            JWs love to use this verse to prove their point about a few survivors whereas everyone else gets wiped out! So how do you explain this scripture?

            Once again, thanks to all for such wonderful help, and showing the kind of agape love that Jesus talked about as there is so little of it in WT now.

            • greg (Bible Student)

              Hi Ellis.

              I hope I can answer your question simply and clearly. Let me know, please, if I come up short, OK? 🙂

              It’s my understanding that there are actually 3 roads, even though Jesus only mentioned 2 of them. They are: the “broad road,” the “narrow way” and the “highway”.

              Isaiah 35:8,9 “And a highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called the way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein. No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, nor be found there; but they that walk there shall be delivered.”

              To explain them very simply:

              1) The broad road leading to destruction is the path all imperfect humans find themselves trapped on. No matter how noble our desires, efforts, and intentions, without some Divine means of being rescued from sin and imperfection we will all end up “self-destructing.”

              2) The narrow path is the elusive nature of “truth” that we live in while Satan is allowed to mislead people; this “truth” is what many seek, but few find; only the relatively few “finding” it in spite of their own imperfections (which would otherwise lead them to destruction) gain a limited-time, extra-special opportunity to become spirit creatures who will help lead all the remaining ones of mankind travel the highway…

              3) The highway that Isaiah speaks of refers to the blessed times yet ahead when Satan will no longer be allowed to roar untruths to humanity; and with everyone free of the influences of falsehood along with the assistance of Jesus and those who found the narrow way, there will be lots of opportunity for all mankind to individually travel towards holiness.

              For a more detailed consideration you can examine the information found in
              Studies in the Scriptures, Volume 1, Study # 11 – The Three Ways, pages 205-218.

              http://www.htdb.one/Volume1/V1_11.htm

              Of course, you can always ask here for more info and clarification, too.

              -greg

              • Ellis Green

                Hi Greg,

                Thanks so much for your prompt answer this is FANTASTIC!! I have never thought of tying in this Scripture from Isaiah and it opens a whole new way of looking at it that I’ve never thought of, in fact I’ve learnt more on this site in the last 6 months than 6 years in WT despite all their changes and flip-flopping!So we’re on “the highway” if I understand correctly. Cheers Greg!

  • Marjo

    At first I have to say a big WOW. I was reading and translating Bible chronology part from volume 2. My eyes got wide open when I was reading this;
    “But finding later, several feet below the skeleton, parts of a “flat boat,” such as was in use on the Mississippi less than fifty years ago, it completely upset the calculations, and relieved mankind of “another proof” that the world is hundreds of thousands of years older than the Bible teaches.”

    Is Russell thinking here…that there has been another mankind before Adam? Or have I thought this wrong….but still wow it is.

    • Ellis Green

      Dear Marjo, as usual I really like your comments. This idea that Bro. Russell may have believed humans existed before Adam is a new one to me and I must admit I find it bizarre. But wouldn’t “early man” still have been made perfect by God so they wouldn’t have died? Or am I reading too much into this? Interesting comment though!

      • Marjo

        Hello Ellis
        I was also thinking Noah’s day he was writing about that also. Maybe they found something what is from that time. But why that isnt in any history book at school….internet is a wonderful tool these days.

        • Marjo

          Also found a link how giant skeletons were found in America
          https://grahamhancock.com/dewhurstr1/

          • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

            So Marjo and Ellis: what are your thoughts on this about Ark of covenant?
            Rev. 11:19

            • Ellis Green

              Jacqueline, mostof Revelation is symbolic so this is just s vision of heaven being God’s temple. I like REV 20 that mentions lake of fire and the only humans sent there are those that fail final test after 1000 year reign, but no mention of people going there at Armageddon.

              • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                Hi Ellis and thanks for your reply. Yes I thought about that, but figured only flesh and blood cannot exist in outerspace or heaven but spaceships and it’s debris can. So I said wow look at this little gem mentioned here for no apparent reason for it was from old. Just thinking out loud as I really read and think about what is being said in the actual Bible with Holy Spirit helping me.
                The witnesses are the only people I know of that makes armageddon divine judgement day on individual people. Where it is mentioned in the Bible and other places alluded to it talks about taking over rulership and rescue of mankind to divine authority under Christ.
                The governing body figur heelfire works so why don’t we keep it as the protestants kept some of the Catholic teachings that kept people scared of disobedience. I think perhaps as one governing body member was supposed to have stated, “there is nothing wrong with forcing people to do write although they are not consecrated”. So same reasoning on scaring straight. So glad to be able to get what I and other regular Christians conclude from reading. The Bible has some gems I never saw before.

                • Just stay sweet and good

                  Jacqueline…”Forcing people to do the right thing” is a two edge sword. It swings both ways. “The judgement we meet out is the judgement we get. I found a very provocative scripture on this point I would like the brethren to make a observation on. 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 Since this was written to all of the anointed in the first century they were all thoroughly tried and sealed before their death. That being said, their own obedience in all things had been accomplished. Therefore, the anointed are authorized to make definitive statements about right or wrong because they have the chastisements to prove their compliance. Malachi 2:7 says it is their business. Malachi 3:18 says now is the time the priestly class aka wheat class is to be will be discerned. Whom the Lord loves he disciplines.

                  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                    Hi just stay sweet and good. I agree no one should be forced or coerced regards obedience to Jehovah”s laws. I think Paul was speaking of each individual keeping check on themselves, not exalting themselves and thinking their word on the matter is any better or final. As an individual we should not accept any theory that is not proven by the word of God and be certain we don’t have an agenda in making statements as if running for the high calling gives us authority. For are not all Christians running?
                    It mentions “Bring into captivity”, I understand it means get control of and realizing our own individual fallen nature and subject ourselves to Christ.
                    The apostle’s had Jesus breathe or give them his Holy spirit at John 20:22 and they received special spirit at Pentecost even to speak and understand other’s languages. Today all Christians have holy spirit according to Christs’ promise in different degrees. As an individual I should work in harmony with how it leads me not be concerned with others doing so. The world isn’t even concerned with spiritual things that deeply. So I think this is speaking of individually control of ourselves and not authorization to make definite statements to be followed or accepted by others whether Christian or non Christian. This is my take on 2Corintians 10:4-5. Malachi 2:7 in referring to the priest of Israel having the scroll to read and he had special help from Jehovah by virtue of being in the Holy and Most Holy. I don’t think this applies to individual Christians now as we are equal in the body of Christ. But during the Millennium after we have been polished and a part of the New ruling body under and along with Christ. Malachi 3:18 application to Christians I see as being in the next age of redemption, 1,000 years reign after we have died faithful and only then have authority to speak. Romans 8:1-2 we are free from the law of sin and death, the condemnation of the law code. We live under the dictates of Christ and not the flesh.

                    • Just stay sweet and good

                      Jacqueline…..I’m really not sure on this, for this reason. After 607 BCE they did not have the glory light (Shikina??light) uranium and thumin, or the arch of the covenant in the temple anymore. While they were in Babylon they had nothing but their personal relationship with Jehovah, not even the blood sacrifices to atone for their sins. From then on it was the written law and the traditions. Malachi in 443 BCE, wrote, under direction from Jehovah God, is scathing book about the refineing of the sons of Levi and what is required of them. The priestly system had to be in place for the refining that Jesus would also add to their spiritual walk. Many of the priestly class advanced on with his teachings and then received the holy spirit. They would not have been given this gift if they were apostate. The apostate priests were then left out of any special insights of the day. The authority of the priesthood was then passed to the Christian anointed. Paul even said he had authority, but did not flaunt it……”I preach one thing and one thing only Christ and him crucified” Gentle persuasion is still persuasion. Its proactive. There is no such thing as a closet Christian.

                    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                      Hi just stay sweet, my understanding is Jesus was not building on the Sanhedrin run system but rather concluded the covenant by keeping perfectly the law code. I never understood the authority of the Jewish priest had anything to do with Christianity. We are witnesses for Christ and the Jews were Jehovahs’witnesses. By definition Jesus, the apostles and all the Jewish converts would be apostates. That term has different meanings, they left the religion they were born in and went to what Christ introduced. Apostasy is not always negative
                      I might not understand the authority anointed might feel they have to speak and direct because I am not anointed. I have received the witness of the Holy Spirit but I understand I must be faithful until death to receive the crown of life if I run for the upward call. I would be honored if at that time only I could be of the priestly class. Now I am equal with all the body of Christ and just do what I am led by the spirit to do. In the first century in Acts the apostles and all of the Christians spoke by Holy Spirit. But those special gifts and special breathing of the Spirit on the apostles ceased at their death. But we do have Holy spirit too but not as in the infancy of the congregation.
                      I guess I might not understand what you are saying also. Are you saying Christians now are in a priestly position of authority? If so who are they directing and why are they ruling now from earth?
                      The anointed ones within the witness organization feel they have special knowledge and authority now, also. It is subjective to me to draw this conclusion from those under the law as a carryover of the priestly authority after Christ. I don’t understand Jesus’ purpose was to fix that system at all but to give the Jewish nation first shot as his bride, die and to Ransom mankind. I see it simply. Maybe others see this differently. Take Care

                  • just stay sweet and good

                    I’m just saying that 1 Cor. 10:4,5 has something to say………and I’m working on what is it has to say. Maybe other people can give me more insight. Jesus told the Jews “You are the light of the world” Some took him very seriously. He warned about not hiding your light under a basket. The early Christians were always busy in the deciple making work. They set the example for us now in this final harvest.

                    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                      Oh now I see. I do agree that we should witness for Christ. I find it is much easier now as I don’t have to tell people you and your kids are going to die if you don’t rush now and I have the only truth. Every Christian has this loving obligation. Now we are building on what others have done down thru the centuries since the apostles. Our time is special like theirs I think not because there is a special anointed class but because of communications. And the fact we can use archaeology, better understanding of language etc to learn ourselves and from others as we share our knowledge. Then that person(s) go do exactly the same but as a yokefellow neither of us having authority to define absolute truth because of a special anointing. I have learned some basic truths from children while teaching Children’s bible class at the Detroit convention once. I simply repeat what I learn and what holy spirit teaches me.
                      Maybe some have a special anointing and I just dont understand because I don’t have it. Maybe One of our other brothers will pop in. I, just so sweet, am maybe a toe on the foot of the body of Christ, as I have the gift from the spirit to stick it out as a person comes out of a bad situation. I can cry, laugh or hug and scream with a person when they are down. Once they get up and on their feet I am of no value, I have to refer them out or push them off the clift and let the spirit help them fly!
                      You however seem to have a different gift as you have an oceanside ministry and boldness to speak. I say follow the spirit and go for it. It seems to be leading you that way but you can’t believe it(:). Follow the urgings of the spirit for John 13:-17: Christ told us it would be in us and never leave. Take care my sister and follow your gift! Love you.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Hello Marjo,

      As I understand that passage you mention from page 35, Volume 2, scientists were simply found to be making wildly inaccurate calculations. They were making many erroneous assumptions, and thus their calculations were very flawed. The passage on page 35 explains that after they had gotten all excited about this “important” find, a find which they no doubt hoped would be useful in their “proofs” or “claims” or whatever, they found UNDERNEATH that skeleton and all the river sediment and plant growth (that was supposedly MUCH, MUCH older) a boat that was less than 50 years old. So for all their claims and calculations, all they really did was “prove” that all other claims and calculations to dates and aeons might be equally and grossly inaccurate and presumptuous.

      Does that help?

      -greg

    • I understand how Old the Earth is like this: “first created at maturity level” (Genesis 18:1-33)

      Scientists will always calculate the world to be much older than the Bible says it is. However the scientists calculations are not ever 100% accurate anyway, because the technology used today is not bullet proof nor will it ever be.

      The bible’s purpose isn’t to explain the natural world to us in exact. It’s telling a specific story for humans to follow in life.

      So we are always going to have questions no matter what for the missing parts. People ask me these things all the time due to all science has put out. But many questions will be left unanswered in todays world because we just can not know all the exact details. God would have left many things out and more for many reasons I am sure.
      Maybe there were humans before Adam and Eve, who knows, many claim there were. I see it as, our life is to follow just as the Bible says because God knows all and we just never will.
      As humans we naturally always want to know more. But God gave us all we needed to know to live peaceful lives for now. He probably was like they do not need to know all the exact facts because it is basically none of our business to know.

      Science says scripture doesn’t say Adam was the “FIRST” human. So we will never know I guess.

      So I go by scripture instead, because if I add in all that scientists say could have happen we will be going into all kinds of directions. Then it gets super complicated. Many have lost faith in God because science has put out endless claims to missing parts of scripture and so on.

      So what we know from Genesis about how the world was created basically:

      God first created the Earth in perfect functional maturity.
      God also created Adam and Eve in maturity.
      All the animals were first created in maturity. Then they spread the earth.

      Genesis 1 is that the created things are fully ready to perform their appointed tasks. On Day 3, God created the plants mature, already bearing seeds. Later on, on Days 5 and 6, He created animals as adults ready to multiply, and finally Adam and Eve, likewise as adults, able to speak and multiply. For inanimate objects, on Day 4, God created the sun and stars already shining. All this is creation with functional maturity.

      – Adam is created to work the garden and care for it (Genesis 2:15). He then names the animals (Genesis 2:19, 20). This is not something that an infant could do.
      – Adam and Eve are to “rule over” the earth (Genesis 1:28, 29). Such responsibility implies maturity.
      – Eve is presented to Adam as a wife (Genesis 2:24). They are to “be fruitful and multiply”

  • Ellis Green

    Hi Everyone,

    After reading so many letters from ex-JWs I am curious; are there any ex Mormons, ex- Scientologists, ex 7th Day Advenyists, ex-Christadelphians and ex- Restored Church of God members here, and what are the differences between them? Can anyone explain if any of these sects believe only they will survive Armageddon as WT does? I have tried looking on their websites but things are as clear as mud.

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    Greg if you see this go to your email please. I need you to open the testimony room at 11.00 your time. I will be there and if anyone comes on I will direct them to the 7pm meeting this evening. Br. Kent is traveling. Thank you.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      I did get your email and opened up the room at 11:16am eastern time. I also see you posted a “postponed” notice just to be safe.

      I’ll look forward to seeing everyone who is able to join tonight. I plan to open the room up an hour earlier tonight in case that helps anyone in a different time zone.

      -greg

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    I am writing for Henry. He says: Thank you for your encouraging eords at a time when I most need it. May Jehovah continue to bless us all.
    This second day is so much better. I left at 1am to go across the street to my hotel. He eas in so much pain but I prayed out loud with him and touched him, we could see him get calmer and his face muscles relax.
    His doctor said he had the longest surgery in the hospital that day, 12 hours. Doc was going home to rest up he said.
    So many good things happened also. There is a family testimony experience to share this Saturday at North America testimony meeting.
    I will leave for home between the expected snow falls tomorrow. We all suffer and feel it when one of the brothers suffer. Thanks.

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    Brothers Henry made it. I wi private email our wednesday night class tomorrow. Helping him now. Goodnight. 12 hrs.

    • Richard Tazzyman

      Pls Give our love to Bro Henry & let him know we are thinking of him.God bless,Richard & Kay Tazzyman

    • Marjo

      That is good to hear. Hopefully he can soon join with us in the meetings.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Jacqueline,

      You must be exhausted from it all. All of us here are very relieved to hear good news at this time. Hugs and love to Henry, and to you, Jacqueline.

      -greg

    • ZionsHerald

      Glad to hear.

      I’ve enjoyed fellowship with Br. Henry. Give him my greetings and hopefully we’ll meet again soon.

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        Zionsherald I will definitely give him your greetings. I think I will give his info to the Chicago/ Indiana brothers so they can drop by if they get near him. He has to come out of ICU first however and when he gets in his room I can give that info.

  • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

    Hey Jacqueline,
    We will be up around Joliet area this weekend was wondering if you could email me info for ecclesia meeting on sunday, we would like to try and make it if we can. Thanks

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Do you have the latest email that i sent the group with the schedule. I will send you the address by email. I am still at the hospital surgery is in the 10th hour now.

  • Shannon

    Would it be wrong to get baptized in another church and can one be a Bible student and go to a church

    • Just say sweet and good

      Shannon….Baptism is an outward commitment of an inner conviction. Thats why infant baptism is of no use because the brain has not developed to maturity to truly understand the obligations the person is expected to live up to. A person has to have a good working knowledge of the Bible first, as well as a determination to live up to JHVH’s high standards no matter what happens to them in their life, in order to make a informed decision of this magnitude. Its not for forgiveness of Adam’s sin, because that has already been paid for.
      Church organizations are just that, and your can’t dedicate yourself to an organization any more than you can dedicate yourself to a wordily government. The government we have to day is not the one we had 5 years ago because its run by people that are always being changed out. Same with church organizations. The world is always changing. JHVH stays the same. He will not change his mind on what is right and what is wrong. His spiritual laws are set in stone, just as his natural laws are. Thats what we love about him. We can count on him not to change. He is our anchor.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Hi Shannon, Spirituality and Religion are not the same words. Persons join institutionalized religion and are often encouraged to get baptized because it gives them confirmation that you are serious about God. Most of these religions have programs that help feed the poor, cloth and assist with housing etc. They use their non profit money to do this and they use baptism as a measuring rod on really helping a deeply religious person. So sometimes to get that help many impovished or destitude people will get baptized. I am I saying this is what one should do?? No I am stating a fact of life! It happens all day!
      So you don’t have to share with us what you do in your personal life, we don’t have an organization for you to join or seek permission from but an association of students of the Bible. That is our focus even on this website. If possible consult directly God to see if you should try to stay where you are if you are safe. So much moving and jumping from one religious idea to another inside highly organized religions normally set you back in your struggles to stay afloat.
      To sum it up Shannon make your own decisions in your life. If there is a church of believers near you glorify with them. Don’t argue with them about what they believe for it is the association that you are seeking and I personnally feel you need to be physically with persons also.
      Please continue to come on our Wednesday night study group. We also have the internet testimony meetings.
      I saw you said hello to me on Sunday but I wasn’t looking at my phone at all just listening. So when admin brought it to my attention you had jumped off before I could make it to a computer to reply to you. The listening device I had wouldn’t allow it.
      I am also thinking that a physical attendance would be good for you. Having the phone numbers of persons sometimes does not work out as without looking in the face for expression and intent misunderstandings can occur.
      You have opened up and made your needs and struggles known here on the site and in private, so I personally feel a minister that sees you would perhaps be the answer to your prayers. Truth can and will be spoken by the group associations that the religion in your neighborhood assign you. Take full advantage of that until the sun returns and things get better for you. Be gracious and bite your tongue if they speak of doctrines that you disagree on. More accurately season your answer and thoughts with some salt and a little pinch of pepper. Dress up your expressions in a gracious manner with persons that want to help you not harm you. Your struggles are great in the winter and many have these struggles when the sun isn’t visible for hours or days sometimes.
      The friends can talk openly here to you and you can provide some great spiritual thoughts to the many strugglers on this site.
      Some of your deepest personal struggles however should go on the contact form and we will give it out to some of the brothers in a private email if that is okay with you.
      Shannon we won’t be able to give out phone numbers and personal emails here on this site, I hope you understand the nature of the internet. Take Care.

  • Hello again Jacqueline,

    Long time no loocky

    How are you?

    I’m 84 now and still old.

    My site is finished now. No one cares as expected.
    Members of all and sundry denominations of which the JWs are but an integral part, notwithstanding their gibberish denials, take one or two looks and say what they did or implied to Jesus: He must be from the devil.

    The reason of my contact is that I am the proud possessor of a 1916 leatherlookalike black bound Studies in the Scriptures Volume V
    “The At-one-ment between GOD and MAN”
    It also contains the “Tabernacle Shadows of the Better Sacrifices”

    While not pristine, it’s in good nick and certainly a treasured item for a devoted bible student.

    I want nothing for it. It is a gratis item, because it would almost be sacrilegious to do otherwise.

    I’ll post it to wherever.

    I used and treasured it during my years of research, white treating it gently, as the old lady it is, except for a modicum of yellow highlights.
    One of the most exquisitely important and significant truths therein is that Humans will NEVER receive in order to possess everlasting life. That is a unique privilege exclusively granted only to the 144000

    As Jesus have it when he said that man must not live on bread alone but also on every utterance of Jehovah to keep living. Makes sense. I mean, stop eating and see how long you keep alive or not listen to Jehovah in an obedient manner and live.

    Charles Taze used the phrase: “Lasting Life” which encapsulates the reality of lasting lasting as long as we eat and obey.

    Take care and keep actively healthy

    Dieter G

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Dieter, Hello!!! How are you doing? Loong time no hear. Yes, I have the black set of the studies in the scriptures also. Mine are just for looking because the pages are so delicate. The brothers from the Chicago Class that runs this site have very ancient books as their parents and grandparents actually knew Br. Russell and they bring old gems to the free table at the conventions. I got my set from the free table.
      Did you put the link to your site? I would and others like to go over and give it a look see.
      It is always so nice to see good friends come back to say hello. You were one of the first commenters on the site in it’s first month and so nice to see you still serving in the Lord’s work.
      You are 84 and I will be 70 this year, we must have done something right to make it this far. We now have testimonial meeting by internet and we can talk now to each other. Also we have the wednesday night American call in. But go here to see if any of these times work for you to talk to us.
      http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2017/12/20/testimony-meeting/ Take Care

  • Kathy

    Hi I’m so happy I came across this, I’ve been searching for so long and I’ve studied with JW on and off for years and never progressed to baptizem due to a couple of concerns I had. 1. Not feeling that the governing body is the faithful and discreet slave that was mentioned in the Bible and when I came to my bible study and my sister who is a witness they became defensive and said I must be looking at apostate sites, but anything that doesn’t agree exactly with their beliefs is considered apostate and so I didn’t know where to turn. 2 blood transfusions do not seem to be wrong yes it says not to eat blood but it also says life is scared which seems to be more important then eating blood… so I’ve been praying and I seem to agree with Bible students beliefs. My question is where are the churches or place of worship that I can attend?

    • TedR Bible Stusent

      Welcome Kathy
      You were wise. I was a JW for 48 years. I never really believed those points you bring up. Plus the policies on disfellowshiping and going beyond scripture. Keep reading and join us on the testimony call

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Welcome, I know where you are Kathy and Br. Peter will see if there is a class near you. We have a Wednesday night meeting where persons like you and me are on studying the Bible. http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2017/12/17/feb-6-wed-new-study-join-us-the-time-is-at-hand-volume-2-of-studies-in-the-scriptures/.
      I will get with Br. Peter because, depending on exactly where we do have persons in your state. Let me go talk to him and in the meantime you can call me now at the phone number I gave you to answer some of your questions.
      These are articles on Blood transfusion from the biblical perspective. Your health decisions should be between you family and your doctor. Witnesses shouldn’t make life or death decisions for you.
      The witnesses once taught organ transplants were cannibalism but when a higer up needed one, all of a sudden it was okay. Many know of people that died because of this.
      Are you aware you can take all components of blood separately but you can’t take it as one. Bizarre reasoning. Even the governing body knows they are in error for this and really don’t do anything to you if you take it. They can’t retrack however because of the major lawsuits that would result for the children and women that have died. Men very seldom when about to die refuse the transfusions. Canada is still litigating over the two mothers dying in child birth because they lost too much blood.
      Your brain antennas are going up because it doesn’t make sense. The people in the religion don’t really keep up with their own religion’s constantly changing theology. If so they would have told you about this eat all pieces of the pie separaetely but not the whole pie at once. (blood)
      Feel free to ask questions here and get a good footing so you can look up the scriptures and there is no rush. I know you might feel an urgency because of their scare tactic teaching on Armageddon. Go here to read the biblical view. http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/category/armageddon-2/

    • Hi Kathy!
      Nice to meet you!
      I grew up as a JW and left due to having doughts like you too.
      I lost my family, but I was never DF, just shunned all at once.
      You can friend me on FB if you like.
      I found the Bible Students just a few weeks ago and after years of searching for answers!
      I joined their Wednesday night study call in, and I love it!
      I don’t have a group by me here in Asheville, NC; but I can talk to everyone on the Web night weekly study call.
      I have to still try their testimony meeting call in too. Looks really neat!
      I just own a business and work a ton so I haven’t been able to join in it just yet, but I will soon enough.
      I think it is so wonderful they have so many tools to help us!!
      You can feel the pull in when you pray to find answers.
      Ask me anything anytime too!
      Lots a love to you in your new spiritual journey of truth!
      ~ xx Sanura Moon

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