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Ask Jacqueline

Hello my name is Jacqueline and I was a loyal witness for over 60 yrs. I moved when the organization moved.  I have been an aux. and a regular pioneer, aiding many to come to a knowledge of the truth.  I am a third generation witness.  I have many family members who are still witnesses.  My Crisis of Conscience began when I became aware of the governing body’s great influence and encroachment on Jesus’ place in the congregation.  It seems he was mentioned less and less each year, but the governing body scores of times during the meetings.  I left in August 2009 and went back to the original Bible Students in January 2010.  As a” Holistic Alternative Psychology Practitioner”, I was also disturbed over the many pedophile cases that came my way, done by elders and other brothers within the congregation.  I made the society aware.  Little did I know it created a file on me in Bethel.  I thought I was making them aware of something they didn’t know about.  I was wrong. They already knew and threatened to disfellowship me if I cooperated with one case.  I had a ” CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE” and went in “SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM” IN CHRIST.

I am here only to help ones that have come to a crisis where “THEY” have decided to leave the Corporation, need help and Christian Fellowship.  Sometimes we don’t know where to go.  So it is with this attitude and mindset of the Lord Christ Jesus that I want to do what I can, if the Lord permits. Additionally, I prayed hard before deciding to reach out and help if someone needed it. I could have been satisfied with just escaping myself. I was on a sinking luxury ship, I prayed for help. And along came a little  TUGBOAT. (The Bible Students). How could I not throw the lifeline to the ones that had jumped without knowing about the little Tugboat. Torgue, Tug placement and Momentum allows a little tugboat to pull even a big ship. There is lots of room on board for those that need something less polished, sleek, fancy and slick. Just plain old Bible , Jehovah and Jesus. No fancy building, just love and trust. The little Tugboat was sent by Jehovah I feel to rescue me and others, that need something that just sticks to the Bible without Big Corporation laws and by-laws.

Ask a  question, share your experience, or just blog and talk.  We all would love to hear from you.  This is a fear- free zone.  Comment on questions, reply, or just follow our blog.

In Christ,  Jacqueline.

Ask Jacqueline

2,552 comments to Ask Jacqueline

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    Dear Brothers, this is Jacqueline. Our dear brother Greg’s Mom is dying. Can you please read his heart pouring post that will appear when he gets the courage to post it.(posted below now).
    I think he needs us now. KENT IS GRIEVING but he can’t! Let’s help him with words of encouragement. He is surrounded by hostility because witnesses are coming and going. He has got to say to us what he can’t dare say to his mom now but he has to get this out. HIS MOM IS DYING. He got the courage to post, may GOD bless him.

  • Shannon

    This is Shannon I’ve been suffering from fear that what if jws are right and in wrong I’m really sacred of being destroyed please help its really hard

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Hi Shannon, nice to hear from you again. How are you? You know Shannon this is something you have to resolve within yourself. I say if you are afraid and you want to be with the witnesses, it’s okay. God has provided for all of Adam’s offspring to be ransomed and saved. So whether there are doubts about salvation or not does not change the plan of God, so don’t be afraid. With all the knowledge you have from your study of the Bible you can make a decision to land where you feel comfortable. I would pray to God to give you peace on your decision until his will is done. We all are groaning over the things in this world.
      How do you feel we can help you? what is it exactly that you feel might be right and you might be wrong? Jacqueline

    • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

      Shannon,
      As an ex Jw i understand your concern! I recommend reading different articles on Armageddon by clicking on the topic part of this site and comparing ur bible with it. The truth that you will find from the scriptures themselves I believe will be a great comfort.
      Brandon

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Hi Shannon.

      I, too, left the JW’s with the same fears as you seem to be describing. It took me several years to gradually learn to trust myself–I mean, being raised as a JW’s left me doubting myself so much that I couldn’t trust my own eyes, ears, thoughts, feelings, or even my own prayers. Yet, prayerfully, gradually, I learned to trust what I read in the Bible. I learned to trust my own prayers. I learned HOW to love and trust in God’s and Christ’s mercy and undeserved kindness.

      If you can, work on trusting your heart. I know, I know, JW’s use the scripture in Jeremiah to tell you the heart cannot be trusted. But that’s not true at all. The scripture in Jeremiah acknowledges that the heart can be difficult to understand, tricky to navigate. But I have found that it’s actually my most reliable guide. It’s the light on my dashboard, and it lets me know if things are OK, or not. But I don’t let the dashboard light, nor my heart drive. I simply use my heart as a reliable indicator.

      I ask you this: What does Jehovah look at when he judges a person? Is it not their heart? Does it make sense that our hearts would tell God the truth, but tell us a lie?

      If your heart is screaming at you that something (in JW-land) isn’t right, it probably isn’t. Please, feel free to ask specific questions here. And I echo what Jacqueline and Brandon have already said.

      I offer you warm encouragement and and recommend you continue with patience, caution, and diligence. What ever it is that has brought you this far will sustain you on your journey. And never forget that God knows all those that love him.

      Warmly, sincerely, and consolingly,
      -greg

    • Ted R.

      Hi Shannon- I have been a JW for 48 years, I was baptized in 1970 and was around when the 1975 date fell apart. I know how you feel, the belief that Armageddon will destroy everyone not a JW is scary. After doing a thorough study of the history of the JW’s, reading Crisis of Conscience and In search of Christian Freedom, I know now in my heart that we do not serve an unjust God.The scriptures very pointedly tell us that Satan is misleading the entire inhabited earth and is blinding peoples minds. The scriptures also tell us that in the reign of Christ God will resurrect both the righteous and unrighteous. The only way for God to exercise true justice would be for the judgement of mankind to occur after Armageddon and Satan is thrown into the abyss, his wicked influence will thus be taken away and mankind will have a true opportunity to come to an accurate knowledge of truth. Why would God destroy mankind who are alive during Armageddon and turn around and resurrect the unrighteous just because they died before Armageddon? Neither one has had a true opportunity to learn the truth since both have been mislead by Satan’s system and influence. God is not so unjust as to condemn people to total destruction ( second death )without a fair opportunity to know him. An examination of the history of JW’s since 1919 proved to me that there is no way the current Society is the Faithful Slave. The Society is using Armageddon destruction the same way the nominal churches have used Hell to bring the kind of fear that you currently experience. We serve a loving and just God who gave his son as a Ransom for ALL, not a vindictive God that the Society would have you follow. I now have a sense of peace and freedom I never had in my 48 years as a JW. Put your trust in God who reads hearts. Follow in the footsteps of the Lord Jesus to the best of your ability. Remember, Jesus is our savior and protector, not a human organization. If you ever need to talk feel free to contact me.

      • greg (Bible Student)

        Hi Ted.

        I really appreciate what you wrote here. Thank you for saying it just the way you did.

        I recall muddling through the JW teachings around the Armageddon concept. What helped me see it for the terror tactic it is was trying to follow it down to the letter of the law.

        I contemplated a sick person, dying in a hospital bed somewhere, of some terminal illness. Then I supposed: What if Armageddon came at precisely midnight (12:00:00AM), tonight. And this terminal patient has a heart attack at 12:00:01AM. By JW teaching, they don’t get a resurrection. But if the same person has the same heart attack at 11:59:59PM, they do get a resurrection, at least according to the JW teaching.

        This NEVER made any kind of sense to me. What’s the difference? In that one single second either way of 12:00:00 did that person suddenly have a significant change of heart? I think it not very likely.

        To me, it points out more than just the flawed mentality of their terror tactics. It also points out their Pharisee-like adherence to the letter of the law, the splitting of hairs, or the literal counting out of the grains of barley so as to ensure the people didn’t give 9.999% when THE LAW demanded a full 10%. Such exaggerated emphasis on the importance of acting no less than absolutely perfectly in even the minutest of details really makes the sacrifice of Jesus worthless.

        Sigh.

        Thanks again, Ted. It’s so refreshing to hear from others, like yourself, who have reasoned on the abundant love and mercy and true justice of our great and loving God, and who come to the same conclusions as I and many others have.

        -greg

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Shannon I hope the comments are helping you and some others that are just coming out. You, have been out a long time and have had experience with other religions. So I want to add to my thoughts to see if It will help you calm your fears and grow toward Christ.
      (Ted thanks for going thru the logic of the teaching and how they don’t make sense. It was about hellfire armageddon to get and keep people so they could have power and control. The entire system of organized religion has this in common.)

      Shannon this is what the Bible says at 1John 4: 17,18

      “17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love. 19 We love because He first loved us.…” (GOD IS LOVE)
      When I ask or question my thoughts I say what does the Bible say, NOT WHAT IF THE WITNESSES ARE RIGHT AND I AM WRONG.
      This is the problem we have with getting free from the cult control. Some will go back to the kingdom hall and go to jwdotorg to read the latest magazine etc and expect God to calm their fears after they read that stuff. If you keep going back in the mud it becomes more difficult to clean up. This is a personal decision, but it is just like the abused spouse (wife normally) she keeps going back to that situation until the husband kills her.
      I have made a personal decision some time ago about going to their website or sites that review the weekly watchtower because I am convinced in my heart that they are an Anti Christ system like the Papal system.2Thess.2:3,4. Daniel 7:25.
      1 John 2:18 “Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.” (One meaning of the term antichrist is simply “against Christ or instead of Christ.”) The governing,body says you can’t be accepted unless you accept them. They say they only have the truth instead of Jesus being the way, the truth and life. Papal system and governing body system has different men over time but the system continues.
      The Bible clearly shows there are many anti Christ although the huge Papal system was the most devastating as people couldn’t escape without death. Ex witnesses have a difficult time but they CAN ESCAPE this system by prayer and not feeding on their words. They don’t try to keep you or physically restrain you from staying away from them. It is voluntary servitude.
      If a person has not convinced themselves according to the Bible (not according to any other religion’s teaching) they can’t get free if they hedge their bets and keep one foot in and one foot in what they see in the Bible, which is contrary to what the watchtower governing body teaches. At some point when a person has left and studied what the Bible says and listened to the voices of other truth seekers, they do have the tools to get away from fear. But it is a decision they have to make. Prayer, pleading and begging our father, then being convinced that he got it and not waver back and forth as if we don’t believe he hears us and will answer.
      John 14:13,14
      “13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.”

      Not just saying in the name of Jesus at the end of a sentence like it is a magical formula of words but honoring Him and His Father by believing that they are and can answer our prayers. They spoke worlds into existence.
      Many keep going over what the witnesses teach with an obsession and they won’t get free from the harmful effects of the fear, mental and emotional damage. Sometimes we are the problem in our own mind not the witnesses because they don’t try to make us believe, they will not pursue us because thinkers have to check their brains at the door when entering their kingdom halls or websites.
      I hope this is some food for thought as this is the spirit in which I speak to you Shannon.
      How is your health? Are you seeing your doctors on a regular basis? I ask because you are very versed in the Bible and it’s thinking. Take time and take care of yourself, there is no race because we are in His rest because Christ has paid the price to save us. You can get physical healing, there is plenty of time, take care of yourself first. In Christian Love, Jacqueline

      • Just stay sweet and good

        My dear Shannon, I TOO WAS RAISED AS A JW. When we are young we crave support because we are new at the game of life. But, sad to say, as we mature we realize that the information our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ gave us at Roman the third chapter comes into play with those who have decided THEY are our spiritual guides. I CAN ONLY TELL YOU ABOUT MY OWN PATH. Only, When I got a solid knowledge of the scriptures and what they say and WHAT THEY DON’T SAY, did I realise that I had to “walk my talk” or I would be a hypocrite. It’s because a matter of good mental health. When we decide to put our total hope in the RANSOM FOR ALL all the holy angels shout for joy and can then step up and encourage us. You’ll see their protection in very little ways that the world can’t see and that unbelievers can’t understand.
        It is in your joy of life. Neh.8:10b It will be your strengh and your support system. It will show in the twinkling of your eyes and the peace in your heart that nobody can take away by indulging in pot shots at you. Your smile will just get bigger and bigger. Lovers are the only winners

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Shannon,

      I really echo what Jacqueline and “Just stay sweet and good” have said. Reading their expressions reminded me of something else that was part of my journey. It’s this:

      As I read, pondered, researched, studied, and trusted the Bible, I saw more and more that was worth questioning and worth discarding in the JW teachings.

      But I, too, was very afraid, very stuck. For several years I knew not where to go. I only knew I couldn’t go backwards, couldn’t go back to the JW teachings. I couldn’t return to my own vomit, that which I had spat out as unscriptural. (Proverbs 26:11)

      Yet I knew not which way was forward. I was scared. I desperately wanted to move forward. But every which way I looked, I could only see “back” to that which I was determined to leave.

      It took time, patience, and incessant prayer. My prayer was this: “Jehovah, I don’t understand. I can’t go back. But I can’t find forward. I’m really scared but still I trust and sincerely desire that YOUR will be done.”

      I recall some of the scriptures that really helped comfort and sustain me. I’ll list them here.

      Isaiah 41:13 God promises to make our enemies vanish from before our eyes, to blind us, so to speak, to the scary things and the people who (try to) make themselves scary to us, and HE leads us by our right hands, (meaning we don’t need to fight, or even carry a weapon to protect ourselves) and HE says, “Do not be afraid for I am the one that will help you.”

      Isaiah 42:3,4 Jehovah emphasizes our frail condition when HE likens us to a bruised reed, and a smoldering candle wick, and reassures us that Jesus will not let us be trampled, crushed, nor extinguished.

      Matthew 6:10, 13 “Thy Will be done… Deliver us from evil…” Some translations say, “Let you will be done.” To me that implies that I, like Jesus before me, am requesting that God PERMIT things to work out HIS way, and that I am eager to trust HIS way, even if I’m scared and puzzled, and even if it isn’t easy to trust at first.

      While Philippians 2:12, 13 encourages us to work out our own salvation with an appropriate measure of conscientious “fear and trembling,” 1 John 4:18 shows us how to not let fear overwhelm us by working to perfect our Love of God thereby effectively overcoming the paralyzing effects of fear.

      May I encourage you to read the short “Lesson for June 11″ which is on page 18 of the June 2017 issue of The DAWN magazine. The article talks about Gideon (Judges 6:11-24) who was both a Mighty Man of Valour” and a human subject to doubts and worries and how God helped reassure him when he was experiencing uncertainty. (You can read the PDF online by visiting the Dawn Bible Students Website at http://www.dawnbible.com.)

      You can also read Judges 6:36-40 to see that even after being convinced he was speaking with the angel of Jehovah, Gideon still asked for–and received–not once, but twice–still more kind reassurance from Jehovah God.

      And finally, may I remind you that when “Doubting Thomas” needed visible and tangible evidence to help him overcome his uncertainty, Jesus was eager to provide him with exactly that which would help him find the way forward. (John 20:24-28)

      I have the warmest compassion for you, Shannon, and for all others who are likewise besieged by uncertainty and frustrated desire. If I can have such deep compassion and caring for you, imperfect as I am, imagine how much more compassion and merciful sensitivity do Jehovah God and Christ Jesus have for us, remembering how we are made, and that we are made of dust.

      -greg

    • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

      Shannon,
      Hello, I was on the call but didnt get a chance to reply to you. A download of The book crisis of conscience can be found, possibly on jwfacts.com or elsewhere. If you cannot find a pdf I could send you a hardcopy that I have. Just let me know, and if needed I can get your info from Jacqueline and send you the book.
      Brandon

    • Ted R.

      It looks like a link to Crisis of Conscious can be found on this website. Scroll down to Books on the right side of the page. A great book. It is not slanderous or super critical of JW’s, it merely gives the facts of the real reason Ray Franz was disfellowshipped, and the inner workings of the Society.
      https://www.scribd.com/doc/20333975/Crisis-of-Conscience-2004-Unencrypted

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        Ted, my fleshly brother sat on his appeals committee meeting in Birmingham and he walked out. The brother was DF without proper signatures. My brother could not go against a man he felt had done nothing. For five years my brother went into the spanish field and traveled 50 miles from his home. We didn’t know what his problem was but slowly he adjusted and came back and is in the grips of the governing body like a house slave. He is fierce for them and will fight intensely for the governing body to be the sole lawmakers for the witnesses. The family feels so helpless because he will literally flee if a DF family member walk into a family gathering. So we have taken to not telling him who is DF from out of town so they caN KNOW THE OLDEST BROTHER IN THE FAMILY. JUST A SIDE BAR. I am from Circuit 18 where Raymond landed.

        https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5738398767644672/download-raymond-franz-pdf-books-crisis-conscience-search-christian-freedom?page=2

        • Ted R.

          The Society has people brainwashed. It is like the scriptures say, family will deliver up family and believe they are doing a service to God. I feel sorry for my JW brothers and sisters who have fallen into that trap. I am not disfellowshipped at this time. I am underground for the sake of my wife who was raised a JW. She suffers from depression and anxiety so I am forced to put go to occasional meetings. I am trying to slowly fade to protect my wife’s health and remain in her eyes the spiritual head of the family. I never dreamed that when I was baptised 48 years ago that I would be so entrapped by the organization I honestly felt had the truth. I wish I had known Brother Franz, the JW’s act like he was a Satanic demon. Reading his book and seeing him on You Tube shows me that he was just a humble servant of God who desired to serve our Lord to the best of his ability. I hope your brother comes around.

          • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

            Ted,
            Hello, just wanted to say hello havent heard you in a while tho I understand your situation on a couple of levels. Hope things are well with you.
            Brandon

            • TedR

              I have to be careful with my situation. Sometimes on Wednesday I go to my office and join the Akron family Bible students meeting. I also join the Chicago meeting on Tuesday as much as possible. When I Can’t join a meeting I get on one of the recorded programs. With my wife, because of the long days, she is more active around the house so I have to be careful. I attended a meeting in Columbus last Sunday and have arranged to attend the general convention next month. I look forward to meeting my new family in person. I have a friend who stopped attending JW meetings several years ago. We are starting to study the Bible together and may have more joining if things work out. I post here whenever I think I can be of help.
              Thanks for asking.

              • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

                Ted,
                Great that you may have a good study with an old friend. I finally made a convention in chicago. Am attending mohomet next month as well. Would love to be at general but is too far to drive for family and my work. Have recently joined a skype study with some Australian brethren so its sunday morn for them but sat eve for me which works good. Its over skype if u ever had a chance to join probly 8:30 pm ur time sat eve maybe i could have them call u in if u have skype. Enjoy and am praying for u.
                Brandon

          • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

            Ted R, first i would like to say that is so kind and loving of you to understand and care about your wife’s health and well being. You know Jesus and Yahweh is a reader of hearts and you can worship him sitting in a kingdom hall. I actually read Crisis of conscience and Christian freedom right in the kingdom hall. Once an elder reached for the book I had in a bible cover (wasn’t aware he was standing behind me for minutes looking over my shoulder). I closed it and just ignored him. I did all my bible reading sitting in the hall and downloaded internet material. So like Daniel you recognize you can be in the lion’s den and serve God! I know she loves you for putting up the front for her. It is persons like you that will understand resurrected ones and suffer to help them.
            Isn’t it a shame we have to do it like that. These are nothing but men and if a religion causes this much confusion it adds to our conviction that we did right to flee. I don’t really care if everybody stays in the religion, I just couldn’t believe my close family was telling me there were consequences for my leaving.
            I was a little cowardly at first and didn’t fight back hard. I was fortunate to find the Bible students immediately and just immerse myself in learning and visiting their conventions to the point my family had to try and fit into myschedule.
            They come around when they see you aren’t affected and let their shunning roll off my back. I tell my experience so others can see ways we have coped. I finally put it out there when at family funerals to tell me if you don’t want me at your home or to speak to me and I will write the name down and stay far away. It worked as some laughed and said you are serious. I said yes, I don’t need but one real good friend. I put it out in the family that I had 2 sons talking to me so I just have to accept the loss of the other and I stop trying to text or call him. He came around after 7 years and I guess he saw it made no sense and most family see it is crazy to let 7 billionaires in Warwick destroy their lives.
            Hopefully some of the things we are trying out and have tried out will help others see they can make it out in one piece.
            Your wife might just leave as they are going to do something to her for you fading. They are so predictable. Take Care, Jacqueline

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    Fatal stabbing at a Kingdom Hall.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-devon-40181662
    http://www.midweekherald.co.uk/news/honiton-stabbing-man-arrested-1-5051377
    http://www.midweekherald.co.uk/news/honiton-stabbing-religious-hate-crime-motive-not-ruled-out-1-5052474

    Witnesses can’t cry persecution of them as proof of divine approval. Russia is an equal opportunity hunter when it comes to religion. The sleeping Bear is out of hibernation,
    http://micetimes.asia/searches-of-scientology-after-jehovahs-witnesses-what-to-expect-next/

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    This is to Ellis from the contact form in case you didn’t get the email: Here is the link to the Australian Jehovah witnesses trials with governing body member Jackson and others testifying.
    I know you have heard that the Big Bear Russia is out of hibernation and has banned some religions including the witnesses from meeting and openly proselytising, exerting undue influence on medical decisions regarding blood and breaking up families.

    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=australia+jehovah+witness+trials

  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

    I was thinking about this. Israel has to defend itself against the forces that want to take them out. It has been evident they have a
    God helping them in these battles. So if I were there could I join the Jewish army as even the women & children will fight when they attack them?
    Any thoughts either scriptually or using our brains and power of reasoning.

    • Just stay sweet and good

      Self defense is always an option. Any TRULY
      Full time minister is exempt from the draft but
      Might consider self defense. Ounce a person takes
      Up arms he risks the chance of killing the innocent
      Which would be a violation of James 1:27. Instead
      Of looking after widows and orphans you would
      Be makings widows and orphans. This was
      The reason David was restricted by Jehovah
      Because he had blood guilt. Those who will
      Be serving as priests cannot have that stain.
      The best way is “Do No Harm”
      Ounce you have killed another human being
      You will never be the same. Just talk two some
      Of the veterans of these recent wars.
      We all have to die so at least make it count
      For something. Hold out for Shalom. Sure
      You might be imprisoned, or executed but you won’t be the
      First that wanted their child like integrity kept
      In tact and not the last. Are Christians part
      Of the problem or part of the cure?

    • Ted R

      We need to keep in mind the council at 2 Corinthians 10:2 – 6. Our weapons are not fleshly. Jehovah has the power to protect his people. As Christian’s we need to follow the example of our lord. Jehovah will direct things according to his will. At least that is my thought.

    • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

      My personal thoughts on this have always been that I will not take up arms against another especially in war however if a threat came to my family I would not allow this to happen without defending them either. I believe simple self defense without the need to kill or intentionally harm another can be at times necessary. Of course this is my own thinking and what is allowed by my conscience. I feel learning to defend one self for that reason only is not the same as learning war for the purpose of killing or fighting just because.
      Brandon

    • Just stay sweet and good

      When you say God modern Isreal win their
      Battles are you referring to Divine Intervention
      Or Divine Providence?

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        I believe Divine intervention. The scud missiles events were not natural even to the enemy launching them. The way the land grows crops for them but not for the others that have tried to live there. I just believe that Jehovah’s witnesses are the Jews and while we are witnesses of Christ Jehovah-Jireh still has that special relationship with the Jews because of His promise to Abraham, the SANDS of the SEA. That is why I guess if under attack by the nations around that hates them, I would take up arms as they did in ancient times. But I would never engage if the Jews initiated war. Which they never do it seems, if fact they are bending over backwards for peace. To far some times giving land away that God said was their and gave it to them.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      The line between self-defense and an act of aggression is a very thin one, and a slippery slope perhaps. Personally, I really treasure the phrase “The Protective Use of Force.” To me that phrase helps keep me mindful of a great many things that I never wish to lose balance in.

      For example, it reminds me that I have come to believe that there is great value in following Jesus’ examples with respect to finding a “third alternative,” a non-violent alternative. It reminds me that all life is sacred and must be protected. It reminds me that “Those who live by the sword, perish by the sword.” (Matthew 26:52) It reminds me that revenge is a game that no one wins, and one I do not wish to ever get caught up in.

      The phrase also reminds me that I’ve come to find great value in believing that the real reason people often do things that end up hurting others isn’t because they’re evil, nor because they enjoy creating pain for themselves or others, but because they are, at some level, and in some fashion, simply ignorant–whether it be ignorant of the real impact of their actions, ignorant of other ways they could act, ignorant of the likelihood there are other alternatives, or some other form of ignorance. “Armed” with that belief, I see the real need is for education, and force might be chosen when there doesn’t seem to be sufficient time or opportunity to educate before harm is done.

      So the phrase “The Protective Use of Force” helps me get clear about my intention when acting: Am I acting to harm someone, or am I acting to protect someone–hopefully even to *truly protect everyone*. It also helps me stay clear on the idea that any use of force is not likely to be truly educational, but only a means to try and protect others while I try to make the time or opportunity to educate in kindness, compassion, and effective gentleness.

      And wasn’t the Daily Manna from yesterday (May 26) especially fitting in this subject when it was said, “…to take up or to use evil words or methods or manners… is temporarily to join the enemy, or to admit that his implements and methods are better than those of the Captain to whom we belong.”

      Just my thinking on the subject.

      I hope and pray my words add no confusion nor pain to the subject. Moreover, because these thoughts have filled my contemplations and learnings over the years, I hope and pray (should I ever find myself suddenly faced with tricky, complex, or rapidly-unfolding circumstances) that I would, even in duress, act in a way that would meet with God’s and Jesus’ approval, as well as with my expressed and professed values.

      1 John 3:18 “My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.”
      -greg

      • greg (Bible Student)

        oops! I meant to correct my typing, but then promptly got distracted. The Daily Manna I mentioned was from May 25 – “Be not overcome of evil.” Romans 12:21

        -greg

  • Jacqueline Fowler (Bible student)

    I found this page interesting: One article has a court case about a disfellowshipping. I always have told them Judicial committee means we need a lawyer’ s advice. I am glad people are going to court on this issue:
    http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0b84577c-6c04-4259-af99-669a0ca6e41a
    http://www.lexology.com/search/?q=Jehovah+witness

    • Just stay sweet and good

      So then my only conclusion is that poor
      People would not be JW’s because poor
      People can’t afford to buy a lawyer and
      Go to court if they make a mistake. Praise
      To Jehovah……we have the Paraclete.

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        Well they will sue for damages. Lost wages and possible discrimination or alienation of affection. A lawyer will not be paid unless he wins and he knows he will win a judgement before he consents to the case. So he gets 1/3 of the judgement which can be hundres of thousands. So poor people can be JW and sue. I went to court and won without a lawyer but the society sent a letter from their lawyers and three elders with the circuit overseer that had met with over 30 elders from the area.
        Ironically the elder that hated me was the one that called me to tell me how they were stacking the deck with the lawyers letter. He told me not to tell on him or he would be in trouble. I can tell now because he died last year at 89 or 92.
        I recently found out he was of the huge family that went with Rutherford when they took over Chicago and he and his brothers made the brothers in my area miserable until Gary Bible student separated themselves from his powerful family.
        Even as a witness he and his family were feared and the CO and DO had to come in and break up that huge band of brothers.
        Now ex JW can get recourse from shunning in the only language the governing body understands, hitting their purse strings.

  • Anonymous

    Hello all missunderstanding on my part when i seen teds post asking about cold water link i was thinkinh it was a BIBLE STUDENT LINKmy mistake. And not int in what the wt or the gb has to say on that i already know and dont agree thanks all have a great day

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Anonymous, I see, I will be with Sis. Doctor this weekend at the convention and will ask her to come on and answer Ted.
      You know I was listening to the Bible in bed last night and heard where Herod was talking and the people said “A god’s voice” and he didn’t stop and reject that. He was eaten up with worms. I think that is the same point with David, he was not a god or someone special and had to reject them risking their life for a cup of water from a certain placw when he had water. His men were wrong and he corrected them. Herod should have fallen to his knees and said no, don’t do that! I am just a fellow servant. Blood transfusion is not mentioned with David and God can say what he means. They actually drank blood not to stay alive but in pudding, to get the strength etc and totally no regard that it represented life and should be used only to atone or save a life. The priest used it that way and so did Jesus to save the whole world’s life.

  • Anonymous

    Just write to jw.org about your differcenes. They will you to get the correct persp;ective on it.

    • Just stay sweet and good

      Anonymous. You can’t be anonymous if you
      Write or call “the desk”. Your information is
      Automatically sent to your congregation and
      Put in your “file” to be there forever.

      You can be anonymous with us forever if you
      Chose to do so. There is no hidden agenda
      Except “Jesus Christ and him impaled”

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Anonymous I was a witness for 63 years and have written to the society. They will not put anything in writing but will send it to your congregation and they have been doing that for the last 30 years. Check with elders and they will agree. You may call them however, I have done that and if I got someone that was favorable toward what I am doing they transfer me about three times until I am at their desk. If I get one loyal to the organization they stonewall.
      I however never lie or misrepresent myself to them as I am not afraid of their knowing exactly who I am. I give full name and say I am writing an article and need to be clear on what you teach on thus and so point.
      I would never call them otherwise to get clarity on what a scripture means because I don’t regard them as a truthful source of knowledge about the Bible.

  • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

    Hello,
    Something I want to run by everyone..(With my wife’s permission) My wife has a sister who has been a Jw many years and the Elders approached her recently to talk to her about her weight. They said they are “concerned”. She is overweight, though my wife was surprised that this would be a matter for the elders to address, this even to the point of taking her sister possibly being taken off of the school. Of course her sister was very upset about them even bringing this to her. Perhaps this will be a waking up point for her I dont know, my wife and sister are not close so she dont talk to her much but is concerned that this will only make her sister more depressed and worse than she is currently. This will be the first time that I have heard of something happen at a Kh like this, anyone else ever hear of something along this line?

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Brandon, it used to be done a lot in the 80’s and 90’s to get personal on weigh of sisters their dress and hair styles. Generally it is instigated by an elders wife not the men themselves.
      But frankly I am shocked in this climate of people suing that these men would jeopardize themselves. If she was firm and no nonsense in letting them know she finds this offensive and unsettling they will back off. But taking her off Scholl is probably a good thing as it is a first step to fading whether she is intending to or not.
      I Remember them going into a pioneers home ( husband not a witness) and cleaning up by vacuuming and removing filth. It was strange that she allowed it but her husband did get a divorce later. Don’t know if this factored in. I think I will ask an elder if they do that. But at any rate a woman should put them in their place. They will back down. This is discrimination and against the law of the land.

      • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

        Jacqueline,
        My wife was asked by an elder from her sisters hall who’s family she is/was close too about it and he let her know that they talked to her sister. Apparently this “concern” came from brothers at her sisters hall (our old hall up north) and not sisters at the hall. Not sure about it being good when it comes to fading as her sister is very strong as a Jw, she did however give them a piece of her mind as she is in no way a soft spoken individual and it may keep the elders back for a time but if they come at her again I am sure it will go very badly. Brandon

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Brandon I just sent you a copy of the flock book. Anonymous is correct you can be DF for a lot of things.
          In fact now I see I could have been DF because I spoke out all the time and refused to meet with them.
          But I also have a non expiring restraining order against them and am no longer identifying with them and have said it in lots of writings. So although they visit here when the CO comes they can’t do anything because of the order and another factor:
          My card was sent to another country where my then husband resided when He returned to his country. So their organization can work against them as they don’t have a US congregation with a card on me. Also I stopped turning in time years before I left.
          Most of the United States have a weigh problem and this is a medical issue that should be addressed by her physician.
          If they feel her health is at stake and they have gone directly to her then they have to drop this as it can be discriminatory and hopefully she is so tied into them she won’t sue. They open themselves up to so much by dealing with everything but the Bible.
          When the overseer visited me earlier this year I spoke thru my front window, raising it. He commented: “Girl you are wearing those braids”. I said yes, no more having to tint my hair if I don’t want to to conform to other” preferences. He dropped it as my conversation went over to my talking to our brothers about the issues the JW have. This let him know I don’t identify with your religion so don’t counsel me. You comments mean nothing to me. He got the point and only asked where many of my relatives were and I told him so he could get in touch if he wanted to. I don’t try to shield my relatives including my children from making a choice to speak or not to speak to me.
          I as a woman could not see myself sitting in this congregation if they violated me by gossiping about my weigh. I feel for her.
          Look in your email for the copy. ignore if others email appear in other forwarded copies as I don’t know how to detach them.

          • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

            Thanks I saw the email n got the book. It is different from the one I had, think mine was a bit older. Is there a link for the newest book? I think they had a recent one with revisions?

            • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

              Brandon there might be a new one. I was posting all the new pages at one time but they were just for the government sake not really changes in action just changing things on paper.
              Were aware that they have more additional laws than the entire law code in the Bible? Talking about binding up a load and putting it on the people’s back.
              I have thought about this and just feel so sorry for your wife’s sister. This is distressing to a female to have someone talk about something so personal. Some sisters liked having weight that were very pretty because it stopped brothers from hitting on them. This is a secret among the witness women that is discussed among them only. Most of the men were married that made passes at the sisters and quite a few are elders who feel privileged. It was an elder that I took to court that in the end confessed he was told to do what he was doing by the governing body to engage me in conduct unbecoming a Christian so I would be discredited at an upcoming testimony in behalf of a pedophiled rape victim of 12 years. If you knew me that was not the way to get me discredited.
              They didn’t think or imagine I would go into court and seek an injunction against their interference by telling me to burn all pedophile records like the letter to the congregation told all elders to do.

      • Anonymous

        Hi iwS JUST reading the elder book on line last nitee from the link you gave and its probly surprrising to some the things u can be dissassociated or D.F. for being very lazy too dirty perso, home car of course talking with the wrong additude a,d of course reading and or watching the wrong stuff meaning anything about GOD that the GB didnt write also lack of participation at meeting asking certaiin questions ect and i just mentiined some as is VERY detailed like i read here recently and they dont deny THE IMAGE OF THE ORG AND ITS REPUTATION And as i recall a familiar ring. The pharasies soooo concerned that Jesus would eat and drink with tax collecters ect. Just food for thought have a great weekend and by the way any one can read the elders book for themself for more info an detail if wanted SHEPHERD THE FLOCK. ITS ON LINE. LORD BLESS

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Thanks for reminding about looking in the book, after all this is an organization not a religion with it’s own set of rules and regulations.

          Also I entered the words “Holy Spirit ” on the Christian resources APP and in Bible resources internet site and got a 2008 convention that is marvelous in discussing the begettal and the born of the Spirit and other aspects. It also had info on Br. Russell being the faithful slave. This is a discussion that most on this site would appreciate.

      • Just stay sweet and good

        The scripture says “we work out our own salvation
        With fear and trembling” not somebody else’s
        Working it out for us. It’s true if someone is not
        Clean and indulges to much in food and alcohol
        They might ruin their testimony. But it is their
        Business with Jehovah. It is true “we reap
        What we sow and if we sow to the flesh….”
        Well, I could go on and site the consequences
        Because “God is not to be mocked”. Mocking
        God means ignoring his counsel. The problem
        With JW’s is you give them a thumb and they
        Take to whole hand! We are not on trial for life
        NOW. JUDGEMENT DAY IS NOT HERE YET.
        We are a work in progress and sometimes that
        Progress is so slow. Mark 2:17. I know of
        One sister who had a couple of rambunctious
        Boys and was told quite sternly about it and she
        Said fine I will educate them at home and when
        They are grown I will bring then back. And she
        Kept her word. Those boys turned out just
        Fine. The secret to this problem is just
        To learn to throw the fight …..take a dive….dumb
        Up…..,admit your a sinner saved by grace and
        Grace alone! Galatians 2:16. Then follow Jesus
        As best you can and by his grace he’ll get
        The credit not JW’s

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Just stay sweet, I agree with you. If more people could just walk away and get in touch with God alone that would help a lot hold on until he reveal and restore everything. But, witnesses and most religions has perpetuated a lie that we either do as the various governing bodies or preacher say should be done now or suffer damnation of some sort. I can only get myself free because as you mentioned it is a personal relationship with God not an organizational or herd mentality.
          Family, I know are not lost and that is so rewarding to know.
          One day everybody will know and be free. So it is all GOOD!
          I do believe,appreciate and honor the fact that now Jesus is getting His team together and His Father is selecting his bride.
          One thing I notice is that Jesus will act with the sword coming out of his mouth (He speaks things to happen) rather than the chaos that the society teaches. He will straighten it out.
          Zechariah 14:12 is a scripture that bothered me for so long but now that I believe in Israel being real and not the witnesses it is easier for me to understand. They applied this to happening to people coming against the witnesses but it all makes sense now. Also to know that those soldiers will rise up and bow before Israel and recognize Jesus is so inspiring. These little understandings have brought so much peace to my heart. I try not to worry about family knowing this and realize they will be okay.

  • Anonymous

    Ps… sorry for all the spelling LOLas i type on an old small phone and dontal ways notice the typos like reading code. Lol thanks

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