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Anointed Talk

Welcome all Anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses and those who would like to talk with you!

Anointed Talk is a place for the Anointed of Jehovah’s Witnesses to talk to each other and for others of us to get a chance to talk to you.  And why not?  We have been told that no one else is listening to you.  Is this true?   The The Watchtower, 5/15/00, p. 11 says, “anointed Witnesses of Jehovah have been blessed with insight, enabling them to understand…”  (See complete quote below).  Yet to what avail is this special insight?  Does the Governing Body care what the Anointed have to say?  Do they ask for the opinion and spiritual insight of the anointed?  Sadly, we are getting reports from Anointed JWs, indicating they are being disrespected, ridiculed and made fun of.  They tell us that they are even being discouraged from partaking of the memorial.  Is it true that the elders and others just don’t believe that those who claim they are anointed really are?  That they do not respect insights of those claiming to be anointed?  Are the anointed who express a different point of view labeled an Apostate?  Is what we are hearing true?  Is this the norm or just unusual examples coming our way?

Why doesn’t the Governing Body consult the anointed?  Why aren’t they interested in their opinion?  Why is the Watchtower writing department adding more writers that are not anointed?  Are the Anointed a perceived threat to the power structure that must be diminished?  After all, shouldn’t JWs being looking to the anointed for spiritual guidance as opposed to Elders, Circuit Overseers and District Overseers?  Is the JW power structure trying to minimize and belittle their influence?  Is this really all just about power and who is in control?

We are not trying to incite the Anointed to rise up and rebel and fight the system.  The Lord’s anointed are a humble and meek people.  Yet we understand that if anyone expresses a difference of opinion, whether anointed or not, they are in danger of being labeled an apostate.   So, how then can the anointed be in any position to provide spiritual insights.  If it is only to tell everyone else to follow the organization, then couldn’t any JW member do that?  So then of what value are the anointed in the JW Organization?  It only seems to make sense that elders and leaders in the JW organization would desire, in humility, to look to the anointed for spiritual guidance.

What do you think?  What is really going on.  Let us know what you think.  This is a place to talk.  We want to hear from everyone, but especially from the anointed ones, whether presently JWs or whether you have been driven out of the organization.  Please enlighten us and tell us the truth of what is happening.  Here you can talk to each other and help each other out.

Full quote:  “Daniel 12:4 states: “As for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” Much of what Daniel wrote was made secret and sealed up to human understanding for centuries. But what about today?

6 In this time of the end, many faithful Christians have ‘roved about’ in the pages of God’s Word, the Bible. The result? With Jehovah’s blessing on their efforts, true knowledge has become abundant. For instance, anointed Witnesses of Jehovah have been blessed with insight, enabling them to understand that Jesus Christ became heavenly King in the year 1914. In keeping with the apostle’s words recorded at 2 Peter 1:19-21, such anointed ones and their loyal companions are ‘paying attention to the prophetic word’ and are absolutely certain that this is the time of the end.” – “The Watchtower, 5/15/00, p. 11.

549 comments to Anointed Talk

  • Brandi

    Hello Fellow Brothers and Sisters,

    I am not quite sure how this chat stuff works, to be honest. So bare with me as I try to figure it out. I thank you all for your kindness, understanding, and patience. I am just here to throw out ideas that manifest from Now Where. I like to think that all the disciples were examples of the various nations (by which I mean the main major sects of ancient religion and the split of them to separate the “wheat” from the “weeds”) of today. Meaning of each sect there were found earnest ones seeking that continue to seek the truth in love and humility separated from the wicked at heart ones seeking to exploit for their own selfish gain forsakening love and consideration for their brother. Then there are ones caught in the middle, lost, and confused by all chaos stirred by betrayl and lies, but still despite all the pain that comes with that these ones keep trying their best to be good at heart (at the core of their very being) and strive to exercise the fruitages of the spirit.

  • Brandi

    You are all very well educated. We can all agree on that. Another thing I think we can all agree on is that the only thing we are commissioned to do as disciples of Christ is to follow his steps closely and imitate him. The only real key to salvation as well as the only way to teach others; by example and our works. No one knows who will die and who will survive. Leaning upon our own understanding causes divisions and strife. Leaning upon our own understanding creates pride and a haughty disposition. Truly no one has a the full scope of what is accurately known as Truth. Only our King, Jesus knows. Why are we trying to prove points, when we are only commissioned to lead lives that mimic Jesus’s works as well as His personality? There will be those you never imagined falling to your left and to your right, so who are we to state what is correct and incorrect in a debate against each other? At the end of the day, what we are speculating almost seems foolish to be speculating, when our focus should be aligning ourselves (our thoughts and disposition) to be imitators of Jesus. After doing so, we will be more equipped to help other do the same by being approachable just as Jesus was. Helping them come to the true knowledge of Jesus and Jehovah, which is what we should want for all humans to live forever in true happiness and love.

    • Ted R.

      Hi Brandi
      I agree with you that we are all to follow in the footsteps of Lord Jesus to the best of our ability. We never want to be so dogmatic as to think that we have the only way to salvation or that we have the complete truth. This is why I like the Bible Students. There is room for disagreement and respect for those with opposing views. Any organization that claims to be Gods only avenue of salvation shows the ultimate prideful and haughty attitude! Any organization that promotes the shunning of family members for simply disagreeing with that organization shows the ultimate lack of the love that Christ promoted. Not even the Pharisees who Christ condemned went that far. This is my problem with the JW organization. Doctrines and prophetic understandings to me are secondary to the love and unity we find in Christ. The Bible, not the Watchtower or Governing Body, should be our guide. The scriptures point out not to put our trust in mortal man. Unfortunately the organization is made up of mortal men, capable of making mistakes. That’s OK. I don’t feel that anyone has the complete and only truth. When an organization starts legislating and dictating to others what they should believe and encouraging its members to shun those who disagree, that is a problem. I have been a JW for 50 years. I have seen the changes and complete reversals of doctrine. I remember people dying for not accepting an organ transplant or blood fractions that today are accepted. Christian freedom is based on a personal understanding of scripture and the development of Christian conscience based on scripture, not the enforcement of the conscience and understanding of a Governing Body or self proclaimed organization chosen by God. We all stand and fall on our own merits and relationship with Christ. Jehovah and Christ are our judges and lawgivers, not the Governing Body or religious leaders of ANY organization. Jesus is the only mediator between God and men, not an organization. As far as prophetic understanding, that will be revealed in Gods due time. True and complete understanding of Gods requirements will come after Satan has been abyssed and Gods Kingdom is ruling without hindrance. Christ gave his life as a ransom for ALL. The judgment of most of will come during the millennial reign of Christ. Developing our love for Christ now will make it much easier when that time comes. This is the primary disagreement, I believe, between the Bible Students and JW’s. Shunning, especially family members is wrong and scriptural. Only in very extreme cases should anyone be cut off, and that should be a personal decision of the persons involved, not a dogmatic organizational decision based on Talmudic rules and laws.

    • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

      Hi Brandi and welcome,
      Yes Truth is from God alone (John 17:17) Even Jesus when on earth admitted to not knowing ALL,(speaking of that day and hour) but only the Father in heaven. Many groups claim to be the truth, NONE are the truth. Bible students have a better understanding of truth as found in Gods word than everyone I have seen including Jw’s as they have discarded and changed the truth they once had for lies and personal interpretations to mislead. I think if we stick to scripture, let the bible interpret itself and restrain from interpolations, calculations or speculations, and allow ourselves to be guided by the spirit as opposed to trying to be a guide, we will do well. Most importantly as you have pointed out, imitating Jesus, being a follower of him is what we should strive to do daily. No man or group can tell us or interfere with our personal relationship, it is up to NO group to decide our standing with Jehovah, and NO group can validate nor can they decide wether our baptism and dedication is worthy of our being called brother or sister. Forgive me for ranting, I must share one last thought in response to your comment, as I can say we know at least this from Jesus words, (John 5:28) that ALL in the graves shall hear his voice” because in (1 Tim 2:6) Jesus is a “ransom for ALL” because (1 Cor.15:22) as in Adam ALL die but in Christ ALL are made alive” This word ALL is a favorite of mine and I love plain scriptural statements that are quite impossible to change or interpret any way besides what they say, though some like the JW’s have certainly tried to do just that. Thank you.
      Brandon

    • Anon CJ

      Brandi
      When the Bible Says not to lean on our own understanding it means lean on God’s understanding and not our own. It means I should follow his guidance and not my own. For example when the churches today say that “well I was born this way therefore God created me gay” Then they allow them to marry in the churches. They leaned on their own understanding. They ignore what the Bible says about it. It does not mean “Lean on the Watchtower understanding.”

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        AnonCJ hello. I believe there are a lot of medical issues that we aren’t aware of. Some life experiences especially before sexual definition takes place (before about 3years) that can make us a certain way by other humans. My extended family has a metabolic issue brought on by medicine their mom had to take to keep from miscarriaging boy babies. If she had a girl baby within 2 years of taking this medicine the girl babies would be sterile with some other sexual abnormalities. They found all three of her girls had the problem not just in the first 2 years. Suppose I was not alive and knew about this to tell them? (parents are dead now) So we all have things to cope with and God help those of us with daily struggles that are a part of our physical bodies.
        New international Bible Matt. 19:12
        “For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others–and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

        • Anon CJ

          Oh I don’t deny that. I’m saying many will say they are born this way therefore God made us this way and will lean on that instead of looking as to what God says about it.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Greetings Brandi.

      I’m actually replying to your introduction that Jacqueline posted on the Testimony page wherein you said, “It is frustrating and infuriating and depressing.” I hear you loud and clear. Sadly, your situation is not unique. But that also means: Happily, you’re not alone. 🙂

      So perhaps you will permit to also say “WELCOME!” It’s truly a pleasure to make your acquaintance and to read your sincere expressions.

      You are among friends here. We don’t need to know about your past. You need not seek our forgiveness. It is sufficient joy for us to see that despite all you’ve been going through, you are still determined to work continuously and progressively at imitating Christ Jesus.

      Please accept our warm greetings and hands of friendship. Feel free to ask as many questions as you can dream up. I speak from my own experience when I try to assure you that your questions will be as welcome here as you are. I can also say that there have been several times when Jacqueline has given comforting words to me that have teleported me back to times on my great-grandma’s lap when I was very young and very much hurting and my grandma would be there to console me. I am confident you will find that kind of caring from Jacqueline and others here.

      If you are willing and able, feel free to join us on one of the Testimony Meetings this weekend. We’d love to hear your voice and any expressions you’d like to share. You can find the times and links on the main page of this site.

      Warmly,
      -greg

  • traveler

    The term “teacher” keeps coming up. I thought I’d say this in answer. I speak and think pretty much the way you see it on paper. My wife, an educated person, edits it, she says to make it easier for people to understand. I think it’s because I’m a horrible speller. We wish to share and learn, our only point. If you personally find our style of expression lacking you are not alone. There have only been a few times when, either forced by circumstance (elders) or because of similar frame of mind we have been able to carry on a complete consideration with others. I would say that people have very different ideas of simple. I met and cultivated a friend and Bible student who was writing his dissertation in for his PhD in philosophy at Duquesne University. He began our relationship by explaining that he was very busy, but if I would let him explain himself in a short statement, waiting until he had finished to rebut and then do so point for point in the right order, he would entertain my question and the idea of a relationship. His short statement lasted three and one half hours; I answered. This was one of the most enjoyable meetings of my life, but probably not one you would call your cup of tea. If you have the gift to simplify please exercise it on my behalf and translate. I am not trying to overwhelm you with information or impress anybody on any level. I will try, but take my wife’s word for it, my spelling skills probably are a lost cause.

    *** Bible Citations ***
    (James 3:1) Not many of YOU should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment.

    • Anon CJ

      I am a teacher. I have my degree in mathematics and I am no way lacking in comprehension of what you’re saying. To effectively reach someone you have to bread it down. Placing a page of info overload does not hold the attention of us. Several of us have stated that we don’t read all you say. However, unless you have the Holy Spirit you cannot see the truth. Much of what you say I used to say as well I used to go online and search out people and find them to try and refute. I would go into trinity debates and just refute. We see the errors in your posts because we have the truth and have found much of what you say to be in error. God does not have an organization and he is not going to destroy people who are wicked today. Only the anointed can go into second death in this age. Not the world of mankind. I suggest you read the Divine Plan of the Ages and see the truth.

      • traveler

        Hi Anon, I’m sorry to hear that you had truth to offer but have stopped putting it out there. The nature of presenting the truth or logic in relation to the Bible is that the Bible tells you it’s a forgone conclusion that it will be rejected by all but a “few” and if the time was not cut short no one would listen.
        As far as the “Divine Plan of the Ages and see the truth” I have read it. It won’t give you the answers you need, just a direction to go.

      • traveler

        Hi Anon, as a brother I appreciate that you’ve gone on sites like the trinity sites and tried to refute their “theory”. I’m sure you must have found, as I did, that there was understanding of a great many disconnected facts. I too used an approach. I just showed them that they had no overview that allowed for a truly loving God. I found that it does not matter to most whether it’s right or logically related to the Bible’s overview. Most just want to be comfortable with what they have been taught by those they are sure must have more insight, those that formed the “new” religious direction they now have a standing in.

        I appreciate also that you state openly that you’ve gone through “stands” for other points of view and have changed as your insight has grown. This is why I find your statement that “we’re wrong on so many levels” encouraging.I have seen this thought stated many, many, times by others. I have the advantage of knowing in advance the range of your understanding, given the basic format where Russell left off his pursuit. While every teacher, Russell included, hopes to learn new things “along side of” those he educates, having educated other minds to the level of insight he has, I believe the temptation to take as “personal power” the insights shared by the teacher (I am of the school of Michelangelo) or God is great. Those “blindly” following become the majority, as they did even in Jesus’ day. These blind followers will form a new sect “within the Christian congregation” as they claim, based on the now “written in stone inspired doctrine”.

        This happen to Russell; it happened when a Pope was elected as the “inspired channel”; it happened when Rutherford separated Jehovah’s witnesses as the “anointed of God”; it’s happening now with the Witness organization stating that the ruling body is “the channel of God”.

        Yes a long way of saying, “I get where you are at, and it makes me optimistic for you”.

        One more thing you might like to calculate into your thoughts. Fifteen to twenty years ago the U.S. government put out a study that stated that six out of ten children in the era of the “baby boomers” had been sexually or mentally abused, or both. Six out of ten or breaking it down three out of five. The reason I’m bring this up is that these kids, now adults, have some interesting side effects from their experiences:
        1. Trust issues. Their trust, broken at varying levels depending on how close the person committing the abuse, causes them to have trust issues.
        2. Sexually aggressive. Having their identity of significance established around sexuality at a young age, they are sexually aggressive, although not being able to handle intimacy because of their trust issues.
        3. Dysfunctional. As a result of these experiences and the resulting issues, these individuals are dysfunctional, and it has been documented they raise dysfunctional children.
        4. Control issues. Having those in authority be the ones who committed the abuse, these children, now grown, have become highly educated so that they can control those around them. Now the authority themselves these “survivors” are not open to any agreement.

        The list goes on but the point is they are the “majority” during the “time of the end”. So three out of five fit this scenario. These “survivors” being sexually aggressive and it is known that humanity has a general weakness in this area, it is reasonable to assume that most of the couples out there are married to one of these “survivors”.

        Why have I risked yet one more long post? Well in the pursuit of truth, one needs to think about the fact that if the majority around you is agreeing with you, you may want to take a harder look at the “normal” train of thought that they are putting forward as logical. So the Bible states accurately, “few” will find the path.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      traveler,

      I concur with Anon CJ’s reply. Arguing about how short or how long the posts are does not address the many glaring and basic flaws I see in both the content and circular logic used in your posts.

      -greg

      • Anon CJ

        This is what I stated to him earlier.

        “As a teacher we learn to adapt do our students. If my students tell me I’m moving too fast then I need to slow down. Or if one says can you say that in fewer words I adjust. But by you’re response basically summed up “well the problem is not me it’s your attention span and that’s not a problem with me but with the Bible.” This is incorrect. The Bible says at

        Proverbs 17:27
        “A truly wise person uses few words…..”

        I believe some work on humility would be good for you. I used to be a JW and I had that same problem you do. I thought I was in the right when people didn’t listen that it was them not me. Now I see that it was me not them. Have a great day.”

      • traveler

        Ok simple: Jesus was resurrected to the earth through the promises made to Abraham to inherit the earth, and given back his original form, one which could take on human form. All of this took place before he finished his work on earth.

        (John 20:17) . . .Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. But be on your way to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”

        Then those in the memorial tombs, or tombs if you wish, who hear Christ, receive the out- resurrection or first resurrection if you wish, to earth to stand along with the living. They all are changed “twinkling” and then the “sons of Israel”, true “Jews”, according to the covenant made with them hear the call to meet Jesus in the air.

        (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17) 16 because the Lord himself will DESCEND from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air;. . .

        (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) 50 However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

        So no matter what your thoughts on the “sons of Israel” or true Jews and the covenant made with them by Jesus for 144000 to rule over earth, they resurrected to the earth, to inherit a kingdom interest only over the earth. Their citizenship was reserved for them in the heavens from the day that Jesus ascended to his father, because he was to be ruler over the kingdom on earth, our God-given natural dwelling place.

        I suppose I could just post all the comments of all the witnesses and all the people who believe in the “theory of the trinity” who we’ve gone down this train of thought with, at the very least it is a many thousand page book. In every case it starts and ends in “why you?”; this has happened hundreds of times, always, when the individual has to accept the conclusion that this is, in fact, the only possibility presented in the Bible. This question, “Why you?” is not a valid question. When faced with a rational conclusion reached by you or any person, it is the responsibility of all to present ourselves with our power of reason. That is the sacred service we give to God. None of us are “THE one”, he has already come.

        (Romans 12:1, 2) 12 Consequently I entreat YOU by the compassions of God, brothers, to present YOUR bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with YOUR power of reason. 2 And quit being fashioned after this system of things, but be transformed by making YOUR mind over, that YOU may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

        (1 Timothy 4:15, 16) . . .Ponder over these things; be absorbed in them, that your advancement may be manifest to all [persons]. 16 Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you. . .

        • Anon CJ

          Your comments are all over the place. I’m going to leave you to your errors and believe what you want. So many errors can’t even begin. But you’re free to believe whatever you want.

        • Anon CJ

          By the way your reply has nothing to do with that I stated. You’re trying to show off knowledge of “exanastasis” which your concept of is incorrect. So I’ll leave you to your errors.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Traveller, Twitter has a word limit because sometimes we want to preach and teach without allowance for back and forth. A blog is the best way but not a website where there are definite subjects.
      For instance since we have been discussing the contact form for this site have people asking, what are the main differences between Bible students and the witnesses. I am doing a slow fade? He nor most of those coming here are interested in these new thoughts. They are trying to escape a cult and this site is for that. It has a target market.
      Traveller if you are reading you will notice your comments defeats this purpose. You have thoughts that should be said but you need a blog and the two of you can run it and debate with those that have escaped already and are doing okay.
      It just isn’t fair if you are doing okay to cast your thoughts on those that are basic and need some support. Those persons don’t want yet another thought or teachings to deal with.
      I hope you understand we are not saying you can’t post here but discuss the topic that you are clicking on, then allow comment. Remember you are helping not debating on here. Hopefully this is taken in the spirit I intend. I can be too blunt sometimes, but not intended. Jacqueline

      This is an example of a blog site: https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/115238/my-censured-open-letter-governing-body
      They have topics but no articles at all, they just talk on that topic then move on to another one.
      They don’t try to teach each other by long lectures and you know what their subject is. Yours are for private study and comprehension. Take care

      • traveler

        Hi Jacqueline, I see that you feel a need to protect those who have questions that you feel you can help them with borrowing from progress brother Russell made and from what you’ve learned along the way. I believe this section of your site was set up for “anointed talk” and have made posts based on this. I admit I’ve just found the reply button:) I would like to say I am not one of Jehovah’s witnesses, their overview of what the Bible says is no more workable than those who believe in the “theory of the trinity” or brother Russell or brother Franz. A God of infinite power with no beginning and no end who would create this reality we are experiencing, where millions upon millions are experiencing the horrors of torture, starvation and sickness would be a God that no sane person would follow with hope.

        It is the language behind the words of the Bible that is inspired. This is why the Bible says not to argue about words. Language is the conceptual image and the Bible’s writers all use the same language when expressing the true nature of reality. This is why translation does not lose the original meaning. I have no wish to do more than share, I’m not trying to show off as Anon suggests. I’m just trying to point out the insights that with God’s spirit I’ve been able to learn. This question, “why you” is asked no matter what old established group is approached, no matter who brings in new thoughts. The Bible points out quite clearly that only a small number through time will go in through the “narrow gate”, having found the truth. So the idea that a large orthodox following has the “right” answers is out of the realm of possibility in the first place. By the nature of what’s happening, a large group will only have “facts”, always learning but not coming to any overall understanding. The “remnant of mankind” that the Bible says will exercise the possibility, the “hope”, Jesus held out to “all mankind” to be saved, was termed “remnant” and “few” for a reason. I personally know of no translation of the Bible that has not kept this statement intact. I’m sorry again if it seems I tried to over whelm the site. My intent was to save time showing an overview that would allow for the fastest progress. I drew on this approach having had the experience, “why you” many, many, times.

        I do not wish to put anything in a “way” that would discourage any brother or sister, no matter what level their understanding, either above or below where we’re at. As I’ve said before, I believe we learn when we gain “understanding of overview” along with our facts, “beside” one another. I will try to offer constructive insight on a broader range of topics in “small” doses, hoping that the brothers and sisters will either help me to arrive at a new “logical” “overview” to use the facts they can share, or the other “way” around as I share.

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Traveller I really do appreciate what you are saying and I have understood you all along. You have something to share. Websites have themes and target markets.
          This one is to show differences between Bible students and the J witnesses to see if they can get on their feet from the error of doctrine taught by the witnesses. Most coming here are really NOT concerned with other thoughts on other views. They are running and wobbling, we try to help them get on their feet without giving them something else to consider. They need a break.
          Now you come on with something entirely different.
          So I offer to you the opportunity to start your own blogspot. They are free. Put your link here and the people interested in debate and love to
          go thru all the talk on every subject can do so. There is nothing wrong with that. Different strokes for different folks.
          We have to maintain some sort of decorum here.
          The organization sometimes plant people on a site to disrupt with this free for all. When we ask them to open a blog to go for it and post the link here, they find no one follows them from this site on the blog but they do get debaters. Because this is not your target market.
          That is what you want is your debaters and there are many out there who will debate all night.
          You say “anointed talk”, I personally don’t believe in such a thing but some do on this site, so we put this topic. But this site has a theme.

          You are not even a witness, so now I see why you can’t grasp what is going on here. Open your blog. Give us the link here and let them follow you over to it. Thanks and I wish you well as you spread your knowledge and hopefully someone has the time to debate you.

          • traveler

            Hi Jacqueline, I understand what you want. I was a witness for 45 years. The ideas I’ve put forward are for the most part already printed present truth within the organization, and they have already confirmed that, while not known by the general congregation, these ideas are true. As I have said, they use the same line of reason as you that the congregation is weak and cannot handle the truth. And I would reply in the same manner to you: if you are not going to teach something that is logical (the truth), why bother teaching them at all. I appreciate that it takes a great deal of effort to work with the congregation. In all of the approximately 43 years I dealt with committees and elders and writing the organization at their request, I never raised these ideas in the congregation. I had hoped that once I pointed out the truth about resurrection and they agreed, they would take the lead and follow the path from there. Of course that did not happen. The organization would always send a request to the local elders to help with this question and the local elders would always say, “write back to the organization, they are not getting the full extent of the ramifications of this”. Of course, even while waiting on the organization things opened up, once we knew the basic “hope of THE resurrection”, and the letters became longer and longer. Finally we wrote our last letter that took one year of daily writing. This letter was 265 pages long and we put everything in order according to the Bible. We sent this letter off and asked to be disassociated from the organization. We also pointed out that only one member in each congregation was appointed as a member of the organization, but if they felt one of us was it, to disassociate both of us, we had not joined. We made it clear we were not asking to be disassociated from the congregation. Jesus told the nation of Israel they were not God’s people now that they had rejected him. Paul pointed out that the nation of Israel as a whole, were not even Jews. These Biblical facts were somewhat like what you are telling those who claim to be anointed, “you are not”.

            I see that you appear to see no problem with this revelation for those who are weak . But it is your site, I assume, or at least it seems you are a major voice here. From now on I will only offer short, one paragraph or shorter answers with appropriate scriptural reference on any given topic. Even so, I think you’ll soon see that either using your line of reason based on Russell or on the organization, the Bible is quite clear about what God has in store, and both Russell and the JW organization have only started “UP” the path. I thank you for your patience and assure you I am just as interested in the weak as you are. I hope that they too will find a firm foundation to build on rather than getting caught in the endless cycle of learning and learning, but never coming to an accurate understanding. One that shows them as individuals how to make progress “UP” the Path, how to move from milk to meat, and how to become “taught ones” themselves. I acknowledge what you and Anon have said about keeping it simple, as needed. I hope at some point, however, that your site will have a section for more advanced Bible Students.
            Your brother and sister, the travelers.

            • Anon CJ

              You think too highly of yourself. For example, many people hold degrees from religious institution that know more about the Bible than I do for a historical point of views yet are incorrect in their theology. Your thoughts however are incorrect. You believe what you believe and you seek to down others that don’t agree with you as not knowing or caring to know YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF TRUTH. You basically called yourself an “advanced Bible Student” yet seem to be totally unique in your views and then down us in sublte undercuts because we don’t agree with your You may have some knowledge but you have no humility which is a characteristic of having Christlike disposition. Like when I told you I was a teacher and you posted that scripture that not all should be teachers. Think I didn’t see that? By the way your attitude is still just like the JWs.
              And by the way if you were as “Advanced” as you claim you are then you are totally blinded to the fact that Israel is still God’s people. Jehovah offered the earthly hope to Israel. Then when Jesus came and offered them the kingdom of the heavens many of them rejected. However they were not cast off forever because the Bible is full of scriptures that show Israel is still the inheritors of the earthly kingdom and will be the “ancient Worthies”. Amos 9:14,15 shows Israel will be brought back to their land. This was not fulfilled at any other time because they were uprooted again in 70-73AD. Read Romans 11. God has not completely cast them off. Please educate yourself before you insult us any further.

            • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

              Traveller hello, you seem to be hung up on who has “control” on this site or say so. You still have an organization mentality with a one person or organization. Well let me inform you.
              AnonCJ runs a huge facebook page with tons of comments every day. All of the other commenters on here are Bible students and Kent is one of the moderators for a worldwide program.
              Yes I am one of the admin for this site. The elders running this site sees everything you say and all of us and will pop on if we are not knowing precisely what to say. GREAT OVERSEERS! They don’t micro manage and that bothers you that I am a woman.
              I am reading right thru your comments and keeping it short. Please get over it. We have our ministries and we are going to do it, so stop trying to establish an organization here.
              You have so much knowledge that is important it seems but you refuse to hit your target market, hmmm have you tried and no one listened? AnonCJ read part of what you wrote to me and I stopped him as I was driving and wondered to him why you want to push your “New Light” on me. The watchtower org wasn’t interested but you can be confident within yourself that this is true.
              Why you feel you have to share with me. I have a lot of thoughts but not everyone needs me to shove it down their throat.
              Get please your blogspot, post the link here and let ones wanting to debate and listen to you do so.
              I am not wearing myself out getting on your banner.
              I help persons that are by their own decision decide to leave the Jehovah witness organization and it’s governingbody and have question or need help steading themselves. Who want to know what was originally taught by the Bible students.
              I can’t jump all over the place with you respectively. I will not reply to you again. This makes no sense, you are wasting time deliberately. You have been doing this for weeks. Get over who comments here it is not your blogspot.

              PS: To the audience reading here, I think I know who this is and it is personal but he is not slick enough.

  • traveler

    Anon CJ
    And by the way. You’re preaching to the choir about the name Jehovah. Then you also know that you cannot say “Jesus, Jeremiah, Joseph, Job, John., Jezebel, Jacob”. So be consistent when showing we cannot say YHWH ——-> JHVH.

    Hi Anon CJ,
    I think this is what you want, to stand for truth in the format you are accustomed to. Brother Russell’s answers and format of choice However, came more often in the form of books.

    Short answer, historically provable and most important Biblically provable.

    You have missed the point, the names Jesus, Jeremiah, Joseph, Job, John, Jezebel, and Jacob are all “English” words as is “Yahweh”.

    “Jehovah” is not an English word, but a representation of the sounds of a mispronounced word of Latin origin.

    If finding truth is a matter of life and death, as it is, then we suggest that do as you do when reading the Bible. Read to find truth, accept what you can see, and think about the rest. No one sets down to read and make sense of the Bible in it’s entirety in one setting. You ask for answers put simply, but some answers have longer explanations than others, even when put simply.

    Using the most accurate statement of God’s name is an excellent test of your stand before God.

    (John 17:3) . . .This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. . .

    (2 Corinthians 13:5) 5 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are.. . .

    We accept truth and stand for it, or chose not to, simple.

    • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

      Hello,
      A question about the out resurrection or the Ekanastasis mentioned by Paul in Phillipians i think… I have heard this and have looked over it before, there are many christian groups who speak of it yet I must ask what is it that the rest of those who do not obtain the Ekanastasis are to receive according to how you read the scriptures?
      Lee

      • traveler

        Lee Anthony (Brandon)
        October 3, 2017 at 1:05 pm • Reply
        Hello,
        A question about the out resurrection or the Ekanastasis mentioned by Paul in Phillipians i think… I have heard this and have looked over it before, there are many christian groups who speak of it yet I must ask what is it that the rest of those who do not obtain the Ekanastasis are to receive according to how you read the scriptures?
        Lee
        Hi Lee, well the message of the Bible is clear to all in this regard, I think, that it means Life to those who “call” on the God of truth. If you are a son of man, of Adam, you have always been dead legally to God. your inheritance is the life span given through that line.

        The term “resurrection” as mentioned means to stand before God and receive the reward for your actions. We each have a stand before God from birth. This is legally dead under the headship of our house. When we reach adulthood we then take our own stand, as a responsible adult. The Bible says that we each “sin in our turn”, meaning we come under the judgment of the law and remain dead. So you see standing before God is a thing we’ve already done. Our actions though are a different matter if we are still conscious. While we have existence we can start to “make our minds over”. This is first done by exercising the realization that God exists and he has sent his son to reveal a way out of the condition of “dead to God” . If you do this you will cross from death (legally dead) to life (alive to God legally). We as well as God himself are bound by these laws. This is why Jesus as a child was legally dead to God even though he was perfect and without sin. However, unlike us he did not “sin in HIS turn” and thus fulfilled the law, winning a way out for us all legally, the ability to “call on God” using the truth he is revealing through his son.

        So longer story made shorter, those who pursue, or in other words “call on God”, by exercising these understandings become God’s sons by adoption and come under his headship and promises to mankind to “save the world of mankind” through the truth. Mankind is destroying the world along with their chances of survival. God will save the earth by removing those destroying it and with the purchased remnant of mankind, repopulate it . This remnant are those in the memorial tombs, those in God’s memory as his sons along with those “alive legally” at Armageddon. As a result of resurrection or being weighed, forgiven of sin, they receive from their Father a return to consciousness as humans to exist on the earth or live on through Armageddon never seeing death(again) (out- resurrection) . Those who did not call on God just remain dead, in the grave as a result of their resurrection before God and receive only the reward that their gods can give . Now the grave (no memorial tombs left in it ) and those dead in it are turned over into the keeping of Jesus to await the coming destruction. The reason that these unconscious dead are kept by Jesus is that legally Yahweh is bound to allow the completion of the asking of the question before he can destroy any being within the question . At the completion of the question he is no longer responsible in anyway for those in the grave. He is legally free to let them have the final reward, destruction in the lake of fire, as a result of the direction taken. There is one thing unique about the test at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ over the earth. Those in the “sea of perfect humanity” who choose to believe Satan will become legally dead, no longer a part of the house of God. Along with Satan and those he has mislead they will experience the second death.

        While love hopes all things it does not make all things possible for mankind or God.

        • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

          Traveler,
          Thank you for your reply. I am one to study things and decide what the truth is based on the scriptures. I consider things from many different viewpoints however as my background is not a simple one. I was into pagan religion (nature worship, witchcraft), Taoism, numerous denominations of christendom, and Jehovah’s witnesses as well. All have different points on life and death and other matters, none scriptural as a whole when it comes to black and white, what does it say in the bible. A couple things I don’t remember seeing is somethings you mentioned… What is the “Asking of the question”? And Are not all things possible with God? Is he not from everlasting to everlasting, one without beginning, who knows the beginning from the end? Some of these things you have mentioned in your post and others I have never heard and would like to see the scriptural references for the thoughts that I have seen you post as truth revealed from holy spirit. Though I am a Bible student, I do not believe that any group on earth today has all truth nor any one person, the devil has mislead the ENTIRE inhabited earth… This means ALL, just like the scripture that says the ransom is for ALL. All means ALL. So just for all to note, holy spirit or not we are in no position to be able to say that truth is absolute truth outside of clear scripture, even those who feel they are begotten and for that reason could not possibly be wrong on some point or another. So this is not just for you my brother, but for anyone reading this post, I see this a lot on many sites and from many groups. Too many feel that theirs is the only one and that God blesses only a certain few. Perhaps this was true in the past and it could be today, who am I to know the mind of the ALMIGHTY, but it seems that even the anointed are still just human and as a result also imperfect and as has happened for thousands of years and likely will happen for a few more, certain men or groups or religions etc will always feel they are divinely inspired and could not possibly be wrong because of their holy books and dreams and divine inspiration… All this leads to in this imperfect world is argument, contention, hatred, murder, or just plain lack of love which leads to any number of things. That being said, I apologize to anyone who takes offence at anything written. I must rest here, I try and be humble and show love to all yet it is hard when I see it little from others to do so. I pray that the Almighty and his Son Jesus will not be as unjust and unloving as many portray them to be using their own words. May we all do our best to simply show love…. mercy…. and if possible be as was Jesus.

          • traveler

            Thank you Lee for your response. “All” in the case of humanity does not mean everyone. Satan tries to mislead “all”. You believe some get saved, right. Even during the thousand years when Satan is released to go misleading the entire inhabited earth, we know he will not win everyone over.

            The “question” is of God’s sovereignty. This was what Satan and Eve by their actions and consideration asked, could God be wrong about something? They of course knew a question was possible because they knew that God does not know his beginning. So there is the possibility of an unknown. There are things that God does not know and things he cannot do. God cannot lie for example. We call this being God, but remember God is a descriptive title, Yahweh is a “being” with characteristics.
            I agree with you the “way” mankind has pursued within religion after the apostles died is the main reason for many wars and the dislike by general humanity. This also was expected by the apostles because of Satan and mankind gaining control of the general population of those left trying to follow Jesus’ revealed “way”.

            • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

              Traveller now you are blogging and I understand what you are saying. Thanks, more can benefit now.

            • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

              Yes some will be saved. I believe however the scriptures are clear that satan misleads all, though he may not deceive all. With the prevalence of sin and the influence over thousands of years from evil that mankind as a whole in one way or another, however small is influenced. As for the thought that “God” does not know his begining, it seems then that he is in fact not “Almighty”. This is a concept I have never heard and am curious as to its origins. Are not all things possible with God? I should rather like to see a scriptural reference for this thought. If the creator was in fact created or simply came into being one day, big bang or whatever.. then who do we really seek to know and serve? If even he, knows not the answer, then it seems the reality we all know based on our understanding of scripture places us in the very same situation as all of mankind…. And apparently Yahweh as well… Uncertainty. Ignorance.. Mislead… I’ve a lack of words to even describe the idea.
              Lee

            • Anon CJ

              All means all. Not most of. The problem with JW theology is they have placed people that are not spirit begotten into the second death. Like Sodom. Everyone will be resurrected. 1 Cor 15:22. I doubt one all means all and the other all means “not all”. JWs have changed their bible from “All” to “all sorts of”. They have taken the ransom for all and turned it into “all that obey the watchtower.” Everyone will be reaurrected as per “1 Cor 15:22”. Jesus ransom guanatees a resurrection for all. Even Adam Those who obey now and are counted as more than overcomers will be of the 144,000. Those who are not following now will be brought back to life for 1,000 years to learn the truth. . Rutherford changed this into those who are wicked now won’t be resurrected. All means all. Which is why the JWs have changed it to “all sorts of”. Once a religion teaches that only their member will survive then that is a cult.

        • Anon CJ

          Incorrect on so many levels. You stated
          “Mankind is destroying the world along with their chances of survival. God will save the earth by removing those destroying it and with the purchased remnant of mankind, repopulate it . This remnant are those in the memorial tombs, those in God’s memory as his sons along with those “alive legally” at Armageddon.”

          Your belief reflects the belief of Christendom in that we have to be saved now. The Bible teaches me that ALL will come forth from the graves (1 Cor 15:22, John 5:22,23). Your error comes from the NWT which translate “grave” as “memorial tomb” and then inserts the belief that those in “God’s Memory” will be resurrected. The NWT has translated “Ransom for ALL “ into “all Sorts of” JWs deny the ransom for all and saying that if they don’t join an organization they will die in Armageddon and not be resurrected. Sorry. This is incorrect and is the teaching of a cult.

  • traveler

    Sorry folks, I believe what you are objecting to is the length of attention span. When it comes to the Bible it is an exercise that strengthens the mind’s ability to focus for longer periods involving deepening considerations. Peter seems to have no problem on this site nor does Jacqueline. This I believe is because they are viewed as authorities and are preaching to a congregation who is willing to follow. This is not necessarily bad. But if your goal is to find truth in the Bible, you may find your depth needs to be increased beyond the basic ideas that you’ve entertained. We’ve been writing for some time on a site exjwwitnesses.com where more in-depth considerations are the norm, and the habit of expressing on this level only seems to be our problem now that we are writing here.

    I believe you would not be more favorable to short answers on the scriptures once you realize that they also will show that what you believe, in most cases, won’t stand up to a logical consideration. We’re sure it will come as no surprise to you that when we approached the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses, they too had problems with our writings. They did, although, admit that what we had presented was true according to the Bible. However, they stated that it was too deep for the general congregation. Their opinion is that the average witness cannot handle a deeper understanding of the truth given the level they are at. These deeper considerations are reserved for the anointed. Brother Franz had a problem with the organization’s opinions on this subject also. The organization believes this is the main reason for the congregation’s need for “shepherding”. We pointed out that if you are shepherds, then why will you not take a stand for truth.

    (John 8:46, 47) . . .If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me? 47 He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God.”

    Before you get upset, there is a distinct difference between “followers” and “shepherds”.

    If this is the “Christian congregation” why would we need to go elsewhere with the truth.

    We will try to be short rather than brief in the future. Thank you for your patience and brotherly love.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Traveler so are you saying xjwwitnesses is where your website is and you want people to go over and post there. BTW I am not an authority figure. The order is Jehovah, Jesus, Bible there your have the authority figures. Concise and short.

    • Anon CJ

      As a teacher we learn to adapt do our students. If my students tell me I’m moving too fast then I need to slow down. Or if one says can you say that in fewer words I adjust. But by you’re response basically summed up “well the problem is not me it’s your attention span and that’s not a problem with me but with the Bible.” This is incorrect. The Bible says at

      Proverbs 17:27
      “A truly wise person uses few words…..”

      I believe some work on humility would be good for you. I used to be a JW and I had that same problem you do. I thought I was in the right when people didn’t listen that it was them not me. Now I see that it was me not them. Have a great day.

  • Anon CJ

    And by the way. You’re preaching to the choir about the name Jehovah. Then you also know that you cannot say “Jesus, Jeremiah, Joseph, Job, John., Jezebel, Jacob”. So be consistent when showing we cannot say YHWH ——-> JHVH.

  • traveler

    P.S. Just a short thought.

    (Matthew 5:15) . . .People light a lamp and set it, not under the measuring basket, but upon the lampstand, and it shines upon all those in the house. . .

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Traveler could you perhaps open a website, put your inf then post the link to your site. Then persons interested can dialogue back and forth.
      This way you are reaching your target market. Here no one is responding and you are just continuing to long post. I have to admit there might be valid points made but I have not read thru all the info only skim it. We will wait for your link. Thank you

    • Anon CJ

      There’s a difference between a light that people are drawn to you and a flashlight being shone in your face.

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        AnonCJ what I see is Traveler has a lot he feels has been revealed to him by God or the Holy Spirit. But this site bounces off the articles posted here.
        He (she) is creating a website but not in the right format. They need to break those post down to articles and focus so the audience can comment.
        Right now you say to yourself, am I expected to read all this? Each post is not about ONE thing but a lot of things in one post. Scriptures just quoted in mass without a stop and let us talk on this one thought.
        Traveler’s comments are articles and should have their own website because the ideas are different not necessarily wrong but different.
        If they leave the link to their site many will see it and go over.

        • TedR

          I agree. When a post is too long no one wants to read all of it. Traveler needs to keep his posts shorter and to the point. If he wants to write lengthy posts it needs to be in a blog or website.

  • traveler

    So what makes you believe what what you believe is truth? You seem unique in many of your views and do you think God has given this knowledge only to you? You’re overwhelming the page which pages of information. No a very good Witness are you? You shine light little at a time in the morning. Not flip a switch on.

    Hi Anon CJ,

    Looking at this site I assumed a great level of understanding of the information in the Bible, and expected that if we just laid it out in brief statements the contributors on the site would be able to follow the lines of reason easily, adding scriptures and conceptual realizations from their own studies. We see volumes laid out here on this site that we have been reading through. We assure you the answers we’ve offered have been brief. It cannot be just our truth if what we are saying is in the Bible, expressed in depth, which it is. You can prove this for yourself by following the “steps of reason”. This process is called being a “footstep follower”.

    As far as unique understandings, the understandings we’ve expressed are not our own, but can be found in the Bible for all to reason through with the help of God, just as we have. If you think we are in the time of the end as we believe those on this site do, you must be aware that if the “time had not been cut short no flesh could be saved”. In other words, no one could find God. This would obviously be because they would no longer believe in God or be able to understand the insights of the Bible. So the light grows brighter for the few that are on the path, but for those who speak the lie, God allows them to believe it, as it is said in the Bible. Through the insights shared through Jesus and understood using the “token” of holy spirit given each person in a relationship with God, we are able to learn beside our brothers, Jesus included, all being under Yahweh.

    For exsample an understanding that is not just “our understanding”,we posted a simple explanation of why it is not “reasonable” to go on using “Jehovah” to identify the God of truth. The reasoning is a matter of recorded history. So why people go on using Jehovah we could not tell you.

    Jehovah is not an English word, look it up. Jehovah is an English “representation” of a mispronunciation (by the Roman Catholic church) of a transliterated word from Hebrew to Latin, for the tetragrammaton. Yahweh is the transliterated word for the tetragrammaton into English, our English word. In this way the original known sounds for the name of the God of truth, are retained. The same sounds are kept in Hebrew, Greek, Latin and English in this way, all pronounced Yahweh.

    Why don’t most people know this? Well, Satan is the “God of the air” and he has disgorged a flood of water to hide these things. We believe this is why we have the “information age” or misinformation age as we would call it.

    (Revelation 12:15-17) . . .And the serpent disgorged water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. 16 But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon disgorged from its mouth. 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus. . .

    Just an idea of course. We are here to share. There is no way to know where those we are talking to are on the path. We may be putting it too simply for some, and too complex for others. We hope this helps you understand that we are here to learn those things that can be learned, doing this by examination and reflection on the Bible as a shared experience. The best way is to put ego aside and lay it out to be examined by our brothers and sisters. We can learn the truth with Yahweh’s help. Brother Russell held this as his main working guide, to get rid of old doctrine and hold onto that which makes “sense”, is “reasonable”. This would lead us forward to draw closer to Yahweh, learning side by side. “Side by side” is the way the original language puts it even when learning from Jesus. We hope this helps. Thank you for your reply.

    • Anon CJ

      Again you are overwhelming the site with extremely long responses. Just a witnessing tip you may not know.

      1. The Longer the response the less likely we are to read it. This is equalibaken to a person that won’t stop talking.

      If you’re trying to teach us something new Cazenovi it’s not going to work.

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