Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.

Articles & Posts

Anointed Talk

Welcome all Anointed Jehovah’s Witnesses and those who would like to talk with you!

Anointed Talk is a place for the Anointed of Jehovah’s Witnesses to talk to each other and for others of us to get a chance to talk to you.  And why not?  We have been told that no one else is listening to you.  Is this true?   The The Watchtower, 5/15/00, p. 11 says, “anointed Witnesses of Jehovah have been blessed with insight, enabling them to understand…”  (See complete quote below).  Yet to what avail is this special insight?  Does the Governing Body care what the Anointed have to say?  Do they ask for the opinion and spiritual insight of the anointed?  Sadly, we are getting reports from Anointed JWs, indicating they are being disrespected, ridiculed and made fun of.  They tell us that they are even being discouraged from partaking of the memorial.  Is it true that the elders and others just don’t believe that those who claim they are anointed really are?  That they do not respect insights of those claiming to be anointed?  Are the anointed who express a different point of view labeled an Apostate?  Is what we are hearing true?  Is this the norm or just unusual examples coming our way?

Why doesn’t the Governing Body consult the anointed?  Why aren’t they interested in their opinion?  Why is the Watchtower writing department adding more writers that are not anointed?  Are the Anointed a perceived threat to the power structure that must be diminished?  After all, shouldn’t JWs being looking to the anointed for spiritual guidance as opposed to Elders, Circuit Overseers and District Overseers?  Is the JW power structure trying to minimize and belittle their influence?  Is this really all just about power and who is in control?

We are not trying to incite the Anointed to rise up and rebel and fight the system.  The Lord’s anointed are a humble and meek people.  Yet we understand that if anyone expresses a difference of opinion, whether anointed or not, they are in danger of being labeled an apostate.   So, how then can the anointed be in any position to provide spiritual insights.  If it is only to tell everyone else to follow the organization, then couldn’t any JW member do that?  So then of what value are the anointed in the JW Organization?  It only seems to make sense that elders and leaders in the JW organization would desire, in humility, to look to the anointed for spiritual guidance.

What do you think?  What is really going on.  Let us know what you think.  This is a place to talk.  We want to hear from everyone, but especially from the anointed ones, whether presently JWs or whether you have been driven out of the organization.  Please enlighten us and tell us the truth of what is happening.  Here you can talk to each other and help each other out.

Full quote:  “Daniel 12:4 states: “As for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.” Much of what Daniel wrote was made secret and sealed up to human understanding for centuries. But what about today?

6 In this time of the end, many faithful Christians have ‘roved about’ in the pages of God’s Word, the Bible. The result? With Jehovah’s blessing on their efforts, true knowledge has become abundant. For instance, anointed Witnesses of Jehovah have been blessed with insight, enabling them to understand that Jesus Christ became heavenly King in the year 1914. In keeping with the apostle’s words recorded at 2 Peter 1:19-21, such anointed ones and their loyal companions are ‘paying attention to the prophetic word’ and are absolutely certain that this is the time of the end.” – “The Watchtower, 5/15/00, p. 11.

715 comments to Anointed Talk

  • traveler

    What’s your point? You’re not teaching us anything new.

    Hi Anon CJ,
    So you understand what the beginning of the pursuit of truth is for God and us, the beginning of the “Path” or “way”? God could not be aware before he was aware, so he states at Isaiah 43:10 the conditions he found himself in, he does not KNOW his beginning. Thus we pursue that which he also pursues , truth.

    You understand that
    1) mankind does not get resurrected to Heaven? Not Jesus nor any of us?

    2)The “token” of holy spirit that we receive when we cross from death to life gives us increased intellectual capacity?”

    3)That we receive the “spirit of understanding” that gives us the ability to look into the deep things of God?

    4)The last “gift”, the spirit of understanding is to remain forever with us and the reason that the angels pay close attention to us even though they are a little higher than us.

    I’d go on about corruptible, incorruptible bodies, and the “putting on of immortality” but I think you’ve probably got my point.

    • Anon CJ

      So what makes you believe what what you believe is truth? You seem unique in many of your views and do you think God has given this knowledge only to you? You’re overwhelming the page which pages of information. No a very good Witness are you? You shine light little at a time in the morning. Not flip a switch on.

    • Henry. H (Bible student)

      Hi Traveler
      Since I was going through some of your comments I notice you seem to be sincere about the Bible and things related to it but I had a hard time reading so much material at once. I found my mind drifting. You might benefit from the words of Shakespeare. “Brevity is the soul of wit” from his play Hamlet. In other words intelligent speech and writing should aim at using as few words as possible. Be brief and concise. I will look forward to your comments in the future.

  • traveler

    Hi Jacqueline, All in the congregation are anointed by the knowledge they gain through the use of the token of holy spirit they receive when they cross from death to life.
    All hear the “heavenly call” or “upward call” to make your minds over or “up”.

    Seal of Anointing
    Seal: Something that confirms, ratifies or makes secure; guarantee, assurance; determine irrevocably or indisputably.

    *** it-2 p. 883 Seal ***
    In the sense of a mark of possession, or ownership, Abraham received circumcision as a “seal” of the righteousness that he had.

    (1 John 2:20-21) 20 And YOU have an anointing from the holy one; all of YOU have knowledge.

    All are the “sons and daughters of Israel”, the offspring of Abraham. “Sons of Israel” is not interchangeable with the “nation of Israel”.

    The Father Yahweh, made a covenant with his son, now the first born from under the legal penalty of death that the law carried, being the only one to carry it out fully and offer himself to do God’s will. The two part inheritance foreshadowed by the stipulation in the law of two parts to the first born was delivered, first as God’s son and second as man’s son. So the son received kingship of heaven through his heavenly Father and kingship over the earth as the first born of Abraham and his offspring. Abraham and his offspring were promised to inherit the earth.

    Now Jesus makes a covenant with the “sons of Israel”, again the “true Jews” that followed him, to share a one part of his inheritance, rule over the earth. The rightful dwelling place of man is his home, the earth. At Armageddon those true Jews under Jesus who is now the ruler of both the living and the dead, are called from the memorial tombs in which they “exist” unconscious, and receive an “out resurrection” to life, existence back to the earth to stand with the living true Jews. Then from among the “sons of Israel” on the earth as a whole, according to his promise or covenant, 144,000 hear the “call” to meet Jesus in the air. Jesus has DESCENDED from heaven and is here to establish the new administration over earth, the
    “New Jerusalem”, removing Satan as the “god of the air”, ruler of earth.

    I will share with you another email that explains the fleshly body and the spiritual body. I’m new here and in fact just checked this email thinking it was only to notify me of answers on site.


    traveler – Thanks for sharing on our site. It is okay for us to disagree as long as we accept the scriptures as the supreme authority and strive our best to honestly understand and accept their teaching. By sharing thoughts, perhaps I can learn from you and visa versa. I think there is lots of evidence to show that the New Creation will receive a heavenly resurrection. For example: 15:44: It is sown [we are born in] a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (NKJ) I Jn 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. (NKJ) [Since Jesus has a spirit body, then so will we since we are to be like him] John 3:6-8, 13 “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit… No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. (NKJ) 1 Cor 15:40: There are also celestial [heavenly] bodies, and bodies terrestrial [earthly]: but the glory of the celestial [heavenly] is one, and the glory of the terrestrial [earthly] is another. (KJV) 1 Cor

    Yes the Scriptures can be understood in a number of “ways” if there is no overview. The dwelling place of the angels is heaven and the dwelling place that man was to inherit was to be the earth through the promises and covenants made to Abraham and his offspring. Pay close attention and follow it step by step, those in the grave, Jesus included, are resurrected to the earth.

    Adam had a full complement of holy spirit from his Father Yahweh. Through the increased intellectual capacity it gives, he and Eve were able to under-stand their obligation to their Father. This allowed them to “put on immortality” within their relationship with their Father and to pass this inheritance (full complement of holy spirit) on to their offspring. They of course lost this inheritance when they fell.

    Now the fleshly body we have inherited lacks this full complement of holy spirit or active force and its increased intellectual capacity. Thus as Adam and Eve did, we “sin in our own turn” and die, both legally and then physically.

    Now through the ransom sent by the Father, Jesus, we have the opportunity to become reconciled to the Father by exercising our awareness of Jesus as God’s son and our messiah. This allows us to escape the condemnation of the law, and to cross from this legally dead state in relation to God and enter into a relationship of sonship with the Father. We are now considered alive to God legally while having existence/consciousness, and while we exist unconscious in the grave. The result is that we receive a “token” of our inheritance of holy spirit and with its increased mental capacity begin to follow the “path” or “way” of revealed knowledge that Jesus has shared drawing us closer (upward). By exercising these new awarenesses we enter into the process described as “make you minds over” or “up”. The process of new thought has been shown scientifically to form new “nodes” within the brain, and happy new thoughts to give health or as the Bible says, “add days to your years”. So with the “token” of spirit, you are literally making a new body, a spiritual, or spirit formed one. The old one formed by fleshly thoughts was dead legally, corrupted; the new one formed by the “token” of spirit will never die, but will put on both incorruptibleness, and in the end when we receive the full inheritance of holy spirit during the experience called the “twinkling”, put on immortality through the awarenesses gained in our relationship with our Father.

    A little over view goes a long “way” in advancing our understanding of our proper dwelling place, heavenly calling which we all hear, (“let those in the congregation who have ears hear”) and the term “heavens” (plural) (“god of the air”).

    (Proverbs 15:24) . . .The path of life is upward to one acting with insight, in order to turn away from She′ol down below. . .

    • Anon CJ

      What’s your point? You’re not teaching us anything new.

    • Just Stay Sweet And Good

      Traveler, I agree everyone will eventually be sons of God after the final test at the end of 1,000 years because they will be standing with the same status as Adam. Luke 3.34 we will all get there if we just hold hands.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      I understand anointing and what the Bible says.
      I guess i wondered why anointed Witnesses feel they have to feed or supply their brand of thinking to others of the household. Because often they just overwhelm you with so much stuff that you tune out. So I wondered why they are so driven to inpart new knowledge and understanding on others of the body.
      Thank you for your answer. Sorry to take so long to answer but I am at am immersion convention and internet intermittent. Jacqueline

      • Anon CJ

        I understand. He’s overwhelming the site with what he believes to be the truth. He has no more knowledge than the rest of us. He brings up arguements that are beaten to death. Not to sound unhumble but JWs don’t know their bibles. His talking points are superficial and lack depth. I don’t read past a few sentence because it’s so long. Some is click and pasted and other tired arguements.

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          I agree this is better put on a site of non believers in Christ. I never read past the first paragraph when I constantly see what amounts to spam. Why would I say spam? Well he is just talking for the sake of talking. So his posts will be pushed down and others posts can come up. This could just be an impolite poster or a sabotager spamming.
          Normally we ask this type of poster to open a website then post a link to their site then there is a target audience. Hopefully he can see no one is reading past a paragraph.

  • traveler

    Anointed talk

    *** it-1 pp. 520-521 Covenant ***
    An agreement between two or more persons to do or refrain from doing some act; a compact; a contract. The Hebrew word berith′, whose etymology is uncertain, appears over 280 times in the Hebrew Scriptures; more than 80 of these occurrences are in the five books of Moses. That its basic meaning is “covenant,” comparable to our modern legal word “contract,” is seen from cuneiform tablets found in 1927 at Qatna, an ancient non-Israelite city SE of Hamath. “The contents of the two tablets [of 15 found] are simple. Tablet A contains a list of names . . . Tablet B is a ration list . . . List A is thus a compact in which the men in question . . . agree to enter someone’s service or to carry out certain obligations. List B, written by the same scribe, then illustrates the nature of the compact; the men were to receive specified rations in return for their services. . . . the Israelite concept of berit, ‘covenant,’ was a central theme in Yahwist theology. Here we have the first published extra-biblical occurrence of the word from early times—not later than the first third of the fourteenth century B.C.”—Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, February 1951, p. 22.
    In some translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures the word di•a•the′ke is variously rendered “covenant,” “will,” “testament” (testamentum, Vg). However, M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia (1891) says, under “Covenant”: “There seems, however, to be no necessity for the introduction of a new word [other than “covenant”] conveying a new idea. The Sept[uagint] having rendered [berith′] (which never means will or testament, but always covenant or agreement) by [di•a•the′ke] consistently throughout the O.T., the N.T. writers, in adopting that word, may naturally be supposed to intend to convey to their readers, most of them familiar with the Greek O.T., the same idea. Moreover, in the majority of cases, the same thing which has been called a ‘covenant’ (berith′) in the O.T. is referred to in the N.T. (e.g. 2Cor. iii, 14; Heb. vii, ix; Rev. xi, 19); while in the same context the same word and thing in the Greek are in the English [in KJ] sometimes represented by ‘covenant,’ and sometimes by ‘testament’ (Heb. vii, 22; viii, 8-13; ix, 15).”—See also NW appendix, pp. 1584, 1585.
    Repeatedly in the book of Hebrews (Heb 7:22; 8:6, 8, 9, 10; 9:4, 15, 16, 17, 20) the writer uses the word di•a•the′ke with undeniable reference to a covenant in the old Hebrew sense, even quoting from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and referring to “the ark of the covenant.” In translating these verses of Jeremiah, the Greek Septuagint uses di•a•the′ke for the ancient Hebrew berith′, meaning “covenant.” Also, Hebrews 9:20 quotes from Exodus 24:6-8, where a covenant is unmistakably spoken of.
    Application of the Word. Covenants always involved two or more parties. They could be unilateral (where the party on one side was solely responsible to carry out the terms) or bilateral (where parties on both sides had terms to carry out). Besides the covenants in which God is a party, the Bible records the making of covenants between men, and between tribes, nations, or groups of persons. To break a covenant was a grievous sin.—Eze 17:11-20; Ro 1:31, 32.
    The term “covenant” is applied to a sure ordinance, such as that concerning the showbread (Le 24:8), or to God’s creation governed by his laws, as the unchangeable succession of day and night (Jer 33:20); it is also used figuratively, as in the expression “covenant with Death.” (Isa 28:18) Jehovah also speaks of a covenant in connection with the wild beasts. (Ho 2:18) The marriage compact is called a covenant. (Mal 2:14) The expression “owners (masters) of the covenant” has the sense of “confederates,” as at Genesis 14:13.
    In effect, any promise made by Jehovah is a covenant; it is certain to be carried out; it can be relied on with confidence for its fulfillment. (Heb 6:18) A covenant is in force as long as the terms of it are operative and the obligation to perform rests on one or both parties. The results or the blessings brought about by the covenant may continue, even forever.

    *** it-1 p. 524 Covenant ***
    New Covenant. Jehovah foretold the new covenant by the prophet Jeremiah in the seventh century B.C.E., stating that it would not be like the Law covenant, which Israel broke. (Jer 31:31-34) On the night before his death, Nisan 14, 33 C.E., when he established the celebration of the Lord’s Evening Meal, Jesus Christ announced the new covenant, to be validated by his sacrifice. (Lu 22:20) On the 50th day from his resurrection and 10 days after he had ascended to his Father, he poured out the holy spirit, which he had received from Jehovah, on his disciples gathered in an upper room in Jerusalem.—Ac 2:1-4, 17, 33; 2Co 3:6, 8, 9; Heb 2:3, 4.
    The parties to the new covenant are Jehovah, on one side, and “the Israel of God,” the spirit-begotten ones in union with Christ, making up his congregation or body, on the other side. (Heb 8:10; 12:22-24; Ga 6:15, 16; 3:26-28; Ro 2:28, 29) The new covenant is made operative by the shed blood (the sacrifice of the human life) of Jesus Christ, the value of which was presented to Jehovah after Jesus’ ascension to heaven.

    Basically we agree with what you’ve said Peter with the exception that the new covenant, as it is being called, was with the “sons of Israel” and was set up before any of that group were anointed. The first born from among these when “anointed” would secure Abraham’s inheritance, “the earth”. The fact that the one to do this turned out to be both God’s first born son by creation and God’s first born son through the law, meant that not only was he to inherit the kingdom of earth (kingdom meaning influence over the earth) but also the inheritance from his Heavenly Father, the kingdom of heaven, again influence over heaven. In both cases he was a king (lower case) setting on Yahweh’s throne, Yahweh being the almighty King (upper case), keeping in mind that both kingdoms are to be turned back to Yahweh as was the original state of reality.

    The problem we see is that the provision of the “next” covenant made by Jesus with his brothers, the sons of Israel is misunderstood. This was to share a one part inheritance as dictated by the format of the law from God. First born sons inherited two parts, all others inherited one part. The other “sons of Israel” is often only applied to the new administration proposed, the 144,000, rather than to the sons as a whole as it rightly should be. We can expect that just as the Angels were wrong in expecting to be able to forsake their proper dwelling place in the heavens, an act clearly pointed out as a mistake, it would likewise be a mistake for mankind to expect to do the same and leave the earth. When Yahweh calls you “stand erect” or “stand up”, it is a heavenly call or calling delivered through his son Jesus to make your minds over, “up”. It is true the 144,000 hearing Jesus’ voice go to meet him in the air, to displace and replace the “god of the air” Satan as the new administration or heavenly power over earth, but only in that the 144,000 have shared kingship with Jesus, a heavenly power over the earth as the new Jerusalem.

    The JW’s don’t understand the seal of anointing in general although Ray Franz and his writers do manage to slip in the realization that it does not apply to the 144,000 alone. Note the last statement in the “Insight on the Scriptures”, about the freedom of the sons of God.

    *** it-2 p. 999 Son(s) of God ***
    Glorious Freedom of the Children of God. The apostle speaks of “the glory that is going to be revealed in us” and also of “the eager expectation of the creation . . . waiting for the revealing of the sons of God.” (Ro 8:18, 19) Since the glory of these sons is heavenly, it is clear that such “revealing” of their glory must be preceded by their resurrection to heavenly life. (Compare Ro 8:23.) However, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10 indicates that this is not all that is involved; it speaks of “the revelation of the Lord Jesus” as bringing judicial punishment on those judged adversely by God, doing so “at the time he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones.”—See REVELATION.
    Since Paul says that “the creation” is waiting for this revealing, and will then be “set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God,” it is apparent that others aside from these heavenly “sons of God” receive benefit from their revelation in glory. (Ro 8:19-23) The Greek term rendered “creation” can refer to any creature, human or animal, or to creation in general. Paul refers to it here as being in “eager expectation,” as “waiting,” as “subjected to futility, [though] not by its own will,” as being “set free from enslavement to corruption [in order to] have the glorious freedom of the children of God,” and as “groaning together” even as the Christian “sons” groan within themselves; these expressions all point conclusively to the human creation, the human family, hence not to creation in general, including animals, vegetation, and other creations, both animate and inanimate. (Compare Col 1:23.) This must mean, then, that the revelation of the sons of God in glory opens the way for others of the human family to enter into a relationship of actual sonship with God and to enjoy the freedom that accompanies such relationship.

    As we’ve already pointed out the sons of Israel did receive the promised spirit of adoption having crossed from death to life by exercising their belief in Jesus as the messiah and Yahweh as his Father. This token of spirit had the effect of giving them increased intellectual capacity, which in turn opened up new understanding of the truth revealed within the statements of both Yahweh and Jesus. The understanding that not only was Paul right, that the larger part of the nation of Israel had not been Jews, but that the number of the twelve tribes was now going to be filled by those to be grafted in from the nations as true Jews. These Jews would be recognized by Yahweh because of this “anointing of knowledge” that they held.

    (2 Corinthians 2:14) . . .But thanks be to God who always leads us in a triumphal procession in company with the Christ and makes the odor of the knowledge of him perceptible through us in every place. . .

    The “good news” that these Jews brought was that there were to be new builders, a new administration, over a new nation and that this nation was to actually produce the promised fruit of building up the house of God. This is really one of the main things that angered the Nation of Israel.

    (Revelation 2:8, 9) . . .These are the things that he says, ‘the First and the Last,’ who became dead and came to life [again], 9 ‘I know your tribulation and poverty—but you are rich—and the blasphemy by those who say they themselves are Jews, and yet they are not but are a synagogue of Satan. . .

    In closing we’d like to express appreciation for the references you’ve used with one exception. The king James Bible is in fact really not a note worthy reference in a Bible context, being a paraphrased expression. If you can find an old copy you’ll see in the foreword by the authors that because of the time constraints imposed by king James, there was not time for a scholarly attempt. The authors simply read the original scriptures and tried to distill in their own words what these scriptures were trying to get across. The authors acknowledge that since they did not understand major parts of the scriptures, many and probably major mistakes would be made. Also since the scriptures are so important to mankind, the authors expressed that it was the responsibility to God of anyone having the insight and knowledge to correct or produce a better effort, to do so. Strong’s efforts come to our minds as it does to yours.

    • Anon CJ

      Christendom also believes that the New Covenant it with the church. You’re wrong to believe that. In Jer. 31: 31-34 we read: “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: . . . this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” Has the New Covenant been made as yet, as some Christians claim, or is this future? The New Covenant has not been made as yet. It started clearly in v. 33 that this covenant is to be made with the nation or house of Israel, which includes both the ten tribes and the two tribes (Israel and Judah, v. 31). It is to be made “after those days,” that is, after the Diaspora and after the completion of the regathering of the Jews to their homeland, Eretz Israel, which we see still progressing, in their return from Russia (“the land of the north”) and other countries (Jer. 16: 14-16). Those Christians who say the New Covenant has already been made are mistaken. The covenant made with Abraham (Gen. 12: 3; 22: 16-18), to which the Law Covenant was added 430 years later (Ex. 12: 40, 41), has continued in force (compare Gal. 3: 17; 4: 22-31).

  • traveler

    Thanks Peter, we are out of town today but will contribute on the questions you’ve just asked on another day.

    Thank you also Greg. As a brother in good standing among the witnesses I have gone though the process of one elder being sent, then two, then a committee for over forty years. During this process not one brother expressed doubt as to the soundness of the reasonings I put forward. The reason for this may be that almost all of it is already published as present truth in the organization’s writings. I point out that most of it was written by Ray Franz and his group based on brother Russell’s foundation. What we found almost without exception, is that the general population was really never trained in the present truth beyond the basics and usually by persons who did not have a very deep understanding themselves. This results in a kind of home grown mix of ideas collected after their basic training has been completed. An example would be most witnesses believe they personally can receive holy spirit when in fact the “organization’s” present truth is that only the anointed have it poured out on them. They then share the resulting insights through the Watchtower.

    We find no greater pleasure than considering the truth with an eye and ear to understanding more deeply the things now available to us that no one except those of the “time of the end” have had the opportunity to understand, doing so through the “spirit of understanding”. The is a power given us by Yahweh “forever” to look into the deeper things of God and one of the reasons Angels watch us intently.

    Again thank you and we welcome the opportunity to contribute. Sincerely, the travelers

    • just stay sweet and good

      Get a hold of the JW’s book “Holy Spirit the power behind the New Order” You will notice that it was teaching that
      the holy spirit is in force when people choose to be obedient. Which then tells me that anyone can now make that
      choice. If they have made a valid UNRESERVED consecration (see Let God be True 1946) It could very well be that book was the work of brother Ray Franz. When false shepherd’s play false to the Great Shepherd they will be disciplined. If we have supported them we will share in that discipline. If we are not disciplined thats when we have real trouble Heb 2:2

  • traveler

    “It only seems to make sense that elders and leaders in the JW organization would desire, in humility, to look to the anointed for spiritual guidance.
    What do you think? What is really going on. Let us know what you think. This is a place to talk. We want to hear from everyone, but especially from the anointed ones, whether presently JWs or whether you have been driven out of the organization. Please enlighten us and tell us the truth of what is happening.”

    Was the intention expressed by you in the above quote sincere?
    We’re sorry Peter, we took you at your word, having read the quote from the topic presentation “Anointed talk”. I and my wife are both anointed and the insights we shared, while maybe deeper than what you expected, are the answer to not just this topic but most of the ones you’ve discussed on this site. If you were put off by the length, we’re surprised looking around on your site. We considered this a short consideration, thus the title “a brief consideration of the nature of what is”. The paper this consideration comes from is 265 pages. As brothers we learn beside each other and beside Jesus, all being under Yahweh, so we are attempting to share.

    We hoped to introduce ourselves in the best way possible and in a way that would embrace the many different levels of mind we see here. We apologize if our approach missed the mark for your mind. We see the need for order and you are the admin of this site.
    so how’s this?

    Seal of Anointing

    Seal: Something that confirms, ratifies or makes secure; guarantee, assurance; determine irrevocably or indisputably.

    *** it-2 p. 883 Seal ***
    In the sense of a mark of possession, or ownership, Abraham received circumcision as a “seal” of the righteousness that he had.

    (1 John 2:20-21) 20 And YOU have an anointing from the holy one; all of YOU have knowledge.

    This scripture, 1 John 2:20-21 says it all. Everyone having Yahweh’s spirit is anointed, and if they continue to exercise this faith to the end they are also sealed by it, and by their stand they have added their seal to it. To have knowledge means you understand it and have exercised faith in it, meaning you have been sealed by it and sealed it by your belief.

    We believe this suggests an anointed person would not be guessing but be fully informed with at the very least a reason for all that is going on in this reality. Although given the time period we are in, one where “if the time was not cut short no flesh could be saved”, we acknowledge that there may be few minds who have ears to hear.

    Thank you for the attempt to hear us, we hope sincerely all here have ears.

    • Peter K. (admin)

      traveler – No need to apologize. I am not trying to shut you down. None of your comments have been deleted. When I see someone’s comments exceeding 25% or 50% of the recent comments, I like to try to slow that down… to have more of a mix of people commenting… and for the comments to be more interactive rather than one way teaching… where there is an honest back and forth discussion. Yes, you are not alone. Others have made longer comments. We are trying to improve.

      I know there are many who privately confess to be anointed, yet are afraid of the repercussions of making this known at the kingdom hall. We are glad to have your participation here and it is not my expectation that you must agree with my opinion. You are welcome to share what you feel the Holy Spirit has taught you.

      Now I would like to respond to your comments on “Seal of Anointing.”


      Does the fact that Jesus is a surety of the New Covenant have any bearing on whether or not the New Covenant is now operative with the Church?

      Heb. 7:22: “but by so much has Jesus become the PLEDGE of a Better Covenant.” – Wilson’s Diaglott

      The word PLEDGE here is translated SURETY in the King James and many other translations.

      Strong’s #1450: pledged (as if articulated [joined] by a member) i.e. a bondsman

      R. Milligan, New Testament Commentary, Vol. IX: the word egguos does not occur elsewhere in the New Testament; but in classic Greek it means a surety, a sponsor, or a bondsman: one who pledges his name, property, or influence that a promise SHALL BE FULFILLED, or that something else SHALL BE DONE.

      So a surety is a pledge, deposit or guarantee that some promise will be fulfilled in the future. If the New Covenant were in operation in Paul’s day, Jesus would not have been needed as a surety. Therefore the Early Church was not under the New Covenant and nor can we be.


      A covenant can go into effect, only after it has been ratified. To ratify a covenant means to confirm it or to guarantee it. Today we ratify a contract with a signature. In Old Testament times a covenant was often ratified by animal sacrifices.

      An example of ratifying a covenant is illustrated in Gen 21:22-34. Here Abraham made a covenant with Abimelech that the well at Beersheba would belong to Abraham and that Abimelech’s servants would no longer use it. The two parties sacrificed sheep and oxen to ratify the covenant.

      Gen 21:27: And Abraham took sheep and oxen, and gave them unto Abimelech; and they two made a covenant. ►

      The Hebrew word for “made” in this verse is “karath”. Strong’s gives the following definition:
      Strong’s 3772: a primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume; specifically to covenant (i.e. make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces).

      Often the sacrificed animal would be cut in parts; each half was laid on the ground with some space between them. The covenant makers would then walk between the cut parts, thereby ratifying the covenant. This was also how God ratified the Covenant with Abraham as recorded in Gen 15:9, 10, 17, 18.

      Jeremiah speaks in figurative terms of ratifying the Law Covenant:
      Jer 34:18: “… the covenant which they made before me, when they cut the calf in twain and passed between the parts thereof…”

      Again, the thought of animal sacrifices is associated with ratifying a covenant. The New Covenant too must be ratified by sacrifices.

      Hebrews 9:16, 17: “For where a Covenant exists, the Death of that which has RATIFIED it is necessary to be produced; because a Covenant is firm over dead victims, since it is never valid when that which ratifies it is alive. – Wilson’s Diaglott. (See also Rotherham and Young’s Literal Translation) ►

      The “victims” plural here are Christ and the New Creation whose joint sacrifice ratifies the New Covenant.

      So, in order for a covenant to go into effect, it must be ratified by sacrifices. In order for the New Covenant to go into effect, it must first be ratified by Christ and His body members.

      The expression “to be produced” (Hebrews 9:16) is from Strong’s 5342 and is in the present tense, according to Baker’s Analytical Greek New Testament. Present tense indicates that this sacrifice, which includes the New Creation, was in process (not complete) at the time the Apostle Paul wrote the book of Hebrews. Consequently, the New could not have gone into operation at the time of the Early Church since the sacrifice that would ratify it was still in process.

    • greg (Bible Student)


      Greetings. Perhaps you will permit me to express myself on something I perceive to be possibly causing some confusion:

      As briefly as I can put it, and I hope I won’t sound critical in saying, I see you as having very sincerely answered NOT the question. Can I explain myself a bit more?

      As I decipher it, the main focus of discussion on this particular page is: “Does the Governing Body care what the Anointed have to say?”

      Based on what I perceive to be PROMPTING you to speak here, the impetus I detect that is BEHIND your present comments, the answer is likely “No. Our experience is that the Governing Body does not care what we have to say on subjects.” Have I got that much accurate? Assuming I’m accurate so far, may I continue to speak?

      I suspect that where the confusion is entering has to do with the WHAT, the THINGS that you have tried to say to the Governing Body, the SUBJECT CONTENT of your past fruitless attempts in dealings with them.

      I’m sure that you’ve been very frustrated over the years (something like 40 years, wasn’t it you said?) with not being heard. While we would like to give you a different experience than you’ve had up until now, i.e. an opportunity to be heard, what we really wanted to hear about was, “Hes it been your experience that you are not being given a chance to be heard?”

      I’m sure that the erroneous scriptural understandings that JW’s are taught by the Governing Body and then expected to accept unquestioningly have not escaped your notice, or you wouldn’t be speaking at all. However, I’d also like to express that our own ideas and understandings, no matter how precious they are to us ourselves, no matter how much sense they make to us, no matter how long we’ve held them, no matter how hard we’ve worked to come up with them, still might fall just short of God’s views and truth on matters. And if we humbly recognize that possibility, we will always welcome having our beliefs questioned and challenged for that is how we grow and refine ourselves and make sure of our beliefs.


    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Hi traveler, I have been following the conversation. As a former witness for 63 years I understand how witnesses view “anointed”. It is viewed as Jehovah choosing certain persons and they are given special understanding and should feed the flock.
      I have never believed this. I think that Christians get the “witness of the Holy Spirit”. And they as the body of Christ have gifts to use as a body working together. Some will be chosen at death to be of the Bride class by dying faithful. When I was a witness I was confused by the exclusiveness many that were anointed claimed when as a Christian I understood scripture with the help of the Holy Spirit not those of the anointed.
      Do you feel that all Christians are running for the upward call or do you believe just certain anointed few? Instead of governing body and the other anointed within the witnesses teaching other Christians, I feel we are all of the body and of Christians 144,000 will be chosen from the vast number of those running the race. I believe it is by faith and God’s choice not works of leading or giving spiritual knowledge to others Christians or doctrine teaching to others that makes us runners for this call. In other words feeding them.
      Maybe I am wrong but I don’t understand the witness concept of certain ones being anointed.
      You seem to have a grasp of it and I would ask you to explain this teaching if you can to me. Is it the understanding of being the faithful and discreet slave maybe that Jehovah witness anointed feel they have a special commission? Maybe dialogue will help many understand this teaching. I ask this respectfully.
      I will wait for your reply after the present conversation with you is drawn to a conclusion. Thank you Jacqueline.

      PS: I am not of the anointed but I do have the “Witness of the Spirit” that my consecration and race for the upward call is accepted as an individual on a personal basis.

      • Cazenovi

        Hello Sr. Jacqueline,

        It has been a while!

        I stumbled upon this thread and I think what you said resonates with me a great deal. “I think that Christians get the ‘witness of the Holy Spirit’. And they as the body of Christ have gifts to use as a body working together.” The scriptures are loud and clear about the body edifying itself (or each other), its one of my passions and joys of the truth!

        I have always preferred scriptural descriptions of those in a covenanted relationship with the heavenly father such as spirit-begotten or having received the witness of the Holy Spirit. Whereas “anointed” is as if already received the crown of glory.

        The scriptures use the word referring to our Lord or the physical anointing of oil etc. I wonder what the Pastor had to say on this topic.

        I miss reading your thoughts Sr. Jacqueline, I hope to be here more often!

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Hello!!! I miss you also. Marvie sent me a photo of you and your Lovely wife from the General convention.
          My family situation had been so stressful leading up to the convention that it was suspected I was courting a heart attack. I took the angiogram and other expensive tests, just to be told it was extreme stress, no blocked artery or anything. I thank God for that.
          I am glad you understand what I am trying to say about my experience with the “witness of the Spirit” an invitation to accept or not, to run for the upward call of God to be with Christ in heaven.
          It is true that all who come to Christ have the opportunity to accept this way of life and devotion and walk the walk and not just talk the talk. You don’t automatically just get heaven as a reward because you are a part of an organization or association. One must consecrate his life, showing as Jesus did that he has come to do God’s will.
          Anointing to me as the witnesses put it says you have had it stamped in steel that God’s Spirit anointed you and gave you life already and you are over his people. I don’t see the scriptures that way. I have not been anointed. Others may have but not me.
          I see the household of faith being the same as the slave, just different parts of the body working together to do the Lord’s work.
          We really, really would like for you to come on this Saturday for the testimony meeting.
          Let us know which one you can make and all of us can make sure we are on that one.
          If God wills I am on all of them, but others here would love to make sure they are on when you are.
          Oh BTW, we know “traveler is not you”. Hopefully he and his wife will come back on. Some have been reading his comments and want to talk with him.

  • traveler

    “Please enlighten us and tell us the truth of what is happening”

    Sorry if this is not the right place to post this. I’m new here and haven’t figured out the order of things. But taking the quote seriously from the page above We’ll make an effort. I see that you all are working very hard to understand the Bible and God’s will for you. It seems that within the distance you’ve covered drawing closer to Yahweh you’ve come onto the path as individuals at different points and like a person standing in a valley you’re having trouble getting the lay of the land. What you need, I believe, is an “over view”. It would help to have a framework to put the information and understandings you have into order. In other words to see the path from the beginning to the end. This will allow you to see first why everything is happening and second how a question can exist in a reality that was created to serve God’s will. Before you go there, know that it had nothing to do with the tree in the Garden of Eden. The answers expressed within this framework will allow you to see how we received free will, how we have a stand to be taken, “under-stand”, and how we can truly be friends of God.


    In the beginning… well, there is no known beginning.

    What we do know is that it is a tenet of basic logic that you cannot be aware before you are aware. We see in Yahweh’s case that he made this clear at Isaiah 43:10

    (Isaiah 43:10) “YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Yahweh, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none.

    If Yahweh had known his beginning he would have to have found some thing that would reveal what that beginning was, or some being to explain his beginning. Since neither of these was the case Yahweh had recorded what he did know, the conditions he knew himself to be in: Isaiah 43:10 11 “Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. I—I am Yahweh, and besides me there is no Savior.”” Before, formed, after”, are all terms of the conditions of relationship. If these conditions had not existed they would not have been presented by God.

    We know that he began creating.

    The Bible tells us that he created or begot his only direct creation, his Son, called an angel. It says that all else was created through this only begotten Son.

    (Colossians 1:15-16) 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. . .

    (Genesis 2:3) . . .And God proceeded to bless the seventh day and make it sacred, because on it he has been resting from all his work that God has created for the purpose of making. . .

    While the Bible talks about the creative six days in Genesis we see that according to Colossians 1:15-16, “All [other] things have been created through him and for him. . .”. This means that God used the only begotten Son to accomplish this creative work, thus the statement in Genesis, “he has been resting from all his work that God has created for the purpose of making. . .” which could of course only be the Son. Thus we have the heavens, the universe with its earth, and two races, the angels and mankind (Adam and Eve). All was in order and serving Yahweh’s purpose, or as he said “good”.

    Once Yahweh had created the two races through his Son, he shares with them the one fact that can free their will: he has no beginning; he does not know how he came to be. This shows them the possibility of something outside of God, not the thing, but the possibility of something. By revealing this fact of no known beginning he sets the stage for the possibility first of a question to exist, and second for one or the other of the races or both to ask the question, “Why do you have the right to decide what is right and wrong for us, if you don’t know everything?”, and therefore for those asking to take up a side opposing him.

    The question “why” is first asked by an angel who later comes to be known as Satan. Satan introduces the question to mankind through
    the woman, Eve. Eve tests God by eating from the tree in the middle of the garden that God had said,

    (Genesis 2:15-17) . . .And Yahweh God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E′den to cultivate it and to take care of it. 16 And Yahweh God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

    The fruit on the tree represented the choice to allow God to decide good and bad for mankind. Eve then gave the fruit to her mate Adam, and he ate from it.

    When Adam took the fruit, the Bible says he was not deceived, but that he was standing against his Father and rejecting his headship. Yahweh casts him out of his household. Adam and Eve are then cast out of the Garden of Eden and do, in fact, die in that very day, or in one of what are called God’s days: one thousand years is as a day to God. Thus neither of them lives beyond one thousand years.

    (2 Peter 3:8) . . .However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Yahweh as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

    There was another consequence for Adam and Eve when they were cast out of the house of God. They no longer had a full complement of holy spirit to pass on to their offspring that allowed them to have the necessary increased mental capacity to understand the obligations of their relationship with Yahweh. The outcome of this loss of Yahweh’s spirit was that Adam and Eve and their offspring began thinking and acting out of harmony with God’s standards; they began to sin. Therefore, through Adam came sin and death, because all sin in their turn and thus they also die.

    Yahweh had foreseen this possibility and had a purpose. Since it was an angel that had caused the entire race of mankind to fall he would allow one of their race to come to earth and make it right, by becoming a human himself. This would answer the secondary question, now a part of it all: “Would any man stand on God’s side unless he felt it was in his best interest?”

    The nature of the question is such that Yahweh said to look around and see that he has created a reality that is based on truth and will lead toward continued life. Thus you must pursue that which he pursues, truth.

    (Ecclesiastes 3:15) 15 What has happened to be, it had already been, and what is to come to be has already proved to be; and the [true] God himself keeps seeking that which is pursued.

    You may have wondered why God would have to pursue anything.

    The asking of the question began the process of trial and error among angels and mankind. Every kind of path has been pursued: politics, different religions, war, governments and a combination of spirit and man, all working to find a path to life without following Yahweh.

    There are ramifications to this trial. God was bound by the moral law that he himself observed in order to allow the question to be pursued without his influence, unless the angels or man changed the basic nature of the question. For example, the angels began to take human form to breed with our best women. The progeny of this union, a hybrid race called the Nephilim, allowed Yahweh to wipe out this race since it was not part of the original nature of the question. The nature of the question requires a multi-generational answer, meaning that for it to be answered Yahweh cannot destroy any being until the process is completed. Thus we can see the need for memorial tombs where Yahweh preserves the life force of each person in an unconscious state.

    (Ecclesiastes 9:5) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, . . .

    Adam and Eve died and their offspring who were also not able to re-enter the garden, multiplied and began to travel to other parts of the world, reaching in all probability at least millions by the time the flood came. Sometime after the flood, a man named Abraham was born. Yahweh supplied this man with a promise that because he proved to be circumcised of heart and ear, or open to reason and ready to take action on a rational conclusion, the promised seed, the Christ, would come through his line of descendants but only to those considered offspring (circumcised of heart and ear). Note that Abraham’s offspring were only those who followed his example and were circumcised of heart and ear which is the condition of receiving the promises in the first place, and the condition by which we can be considered “sons of Israel”, Abraham’s offspring. This distinction shows that many who were physically connected to Abraham were not considered Abraham’s seed/offspring. It is through this same conceptual realization Paul establishes that those who were only physically connected were not offspring, nor were they sons of Israel or Jews.

    It is important to understand that only those who were circumcised of heart and ear and open to reason, fit the title “sons of Israel”. This was a distinction based on the right frame of mind, not through a physical connection Abraham or the provision of the “nation of Israel”. This becomes more clear when gentiles, or people who were not physically connected with the true Jews/sons of Israel/offspring of Abraham, were able to be grafted into the twelve tribes based on their heart condition, and receive the spirit of adoption as sons, showing that they were considered by Yahweh as true offspring of Abraham and thus Jews. Again Yahweh considered only those circumcised of heart and ear as offspring of Abraham, and thus the only true Jews. A brief look at Romans will show that Paul brought this out in his consideration of “who really is a Jew”. Note he was not considering who really WAS a Jew. In fact, although it evidently did not dawn on Paul, it showed that Paul himself had not been a true Jew until he crossed over.

    Jesus came through Mary who was herself of the lineage of Abraham, and was adopted by his stepfather Joseph who was also of the lineage of Abraham. This in itself was not enough to make them offspring of Abraham according to the promises as we already brought out. Only because Mary and Joseph were circumcised of heart and ear were they called offspring of Abraham. It seems complicated, but really it is not. All one must do to keep things straight is to remember this fact: everything is about frame of mind. The Bible tells us that all was as God made it in the beginning, “Good”, because he believed or willed it that way, frame of mind. We are trying to acquire the mind of Christ, which is at one with the mind of God, or in other words, in harmony with God’s frame of mind.

    (John 3:16-18) . . .“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

    (Philippians 2:5-8) 5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake.

    The following is a simple explanation of how the transfer of God’s Son was accomplished. The Bible says that God’s Son emptied himself and then Yahweh transferred his life force into the womb of Mary, meaning that he gave up his spiritual body with its mind’s ability to hold consciousness. Later after Jesus faced his tests on earth, he again gave up his life force by choice, since he was a perfect person and would have to do this to die. An angel or a perfect human cannot die of natural causes so he would have to give up his life force by choice.

    Knowing these steps of transfer we come to understand the description of death as a sleep-like state of the life force that lacks consciousness. This life force is kept in a memorial tomb, a place of preservation by Yahweh and is described as being preserved alive. While in the grave, Jesus stood before Yahweh and his life’s stand was weighed This is what resurrection means, to stand before Yahweh; it does not require consciousness. The outcome of this weighing process is either to be left to exist in the grave, under judgment and unconscious, or having exercised faith in the Messiah and his Father Yahweh as Jesus did, to be returned to existence/consciousness in a new body. This latter type of resurrection is called an out-resurrection (Php 3:11) in the original Greek, as seen in an interlinear translation of the Greek scriptures. One can see from this brief explanation of resurrection how it is that the Bible says,” there is to be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous”. Yahweh, from his memory, then gave back to his Son the mental frame developed by both the angel he had previously been and the man he had just been. Both were returned to the newly created spiritual body now housing the life force of the Son returned to existence from the grave or memorial tomb.

    The process is recorded in the inspired record as follows:

    (Mt 1:18) But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by Holy Spirit before they were united.

    Prior to this, Yahweh’s angelic messenger had informed the virgin girl Mary that she would “conceive in her womb” as the result of God’s Holy Spirit coming upon her and his power overshadowing her
    (Lu 1:30, 31, 34, 35). Since actual conception took place, it appears that Yahweh God caused an ovum, or egg cell, source of body in Mary’s womb, to become fertile. This was accomplished by the transfer of the life or PERSONAL LIFE FORCE/basis of identity of his firstborn Son from the spirit realm to her egg cell (Ge 4:4). The firstborn’s personal life force ( ) was then what the Bible calls tented on earth. Only in this way could the child eventually born have retained identity as the same person who had resided in heaven as God’s Son, and only in this way could he have been an actual son of Mary and hence a genuine physical descendant of her forefathers Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah and King David, and legitimate heir of the divine promises made to them. Having the right physical lineage, all he needed as a human coming of age and now a man himself, was to exercise his faith based on accurate knowledge that he was the promised messiah and that Yahweh was his father. Thus he crossed from the legally dead state he was in under law due to his stepfather’s headship, to being legally alive to God having proven he was circumcised of heart and ear.

    This is a good place to explain who Jesus was and under what condition he found himself.

    (Galatians 4:4, 5) . . .God sent forth his Son, who came to be out of a woman and who came to be under law, 5 that he might release by purchase those under law, that we, in turn, might receive the adoption as sons.

    The heavenly Father sends his Son to come under law. This law, given to Moses and through him to the Israelites, was just one of the possibilities to be tried, rule by perfect law. Yahweh said it would condemn mankind because no imperfect man could live according to law without sin. Only a perfect man could accomplish this, and he would inherit a kingdom and sit on Yahweh’s throne for a thousand years as ruler of both heaven and earth, and have power over both the living and the dead. This inheritance was according to Yahweh’s law of the two part inheritance stipulated for the firstborn son.

    Kingdom means range of influence. The earthly part was taken from the nation of Israel when the “Kingdom among you” or the true Jews accepted Jesus as their king. If you note in the scripture below, Matthew 21:43, that the kingdom of God was already among the nation of Israel and was to be given to a nation who would produce its fruits, you can begin to see that this kingdom was the remnant that was delivered and was made up of only the “sons of Israel” (true Jews, circumcised of heart and ear) that had accepted Jesus as their king, who was himself now one of the offspring of Abraham.

    (Matthew 21:42-43) . . .Jesus said to them: “Did YOU never read in the Scriptures, ‘The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone. From Yahweh this has come to be, and it is marvelous in our eyes’? 43 This is why I say to YOU, The kingdom of God will be taken from YOU and be given to a nation producing its fruits. . .

    The following is one of the most important statements Paul makes and one you need to get a sense of.

    (Romans 9:6-7) . . .However, it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who [spring] from Israel are really “Israel.” 7 Neither because they are Abraham’s seed are they all children,. . .

    Thus we have Jesus, born to Mary who is under law, who is adopted into Joseph’s household that is also under law. This means that as an under aged son he would get his stand with God legally from his stepfather, Joseph. In this case it meant that Jesus, although the physical Son of God in identity, was at the same time a son of man and as such condemned to death legally under his stepfather’s household.

    The Bible says that when Jesus found himself in slave’s form, he presented himself for baptism to do God’s will. We see that Jesus had to develop as a human, learning from the self evident truth around him as well as the scriptures, for him to constitute a corresponding ransom sacrifice. When of age, and finding himself as the only man to fulfill the obligations of the law and the only one who could be the messiah, he legally crossed from death to life by presenting himself to do God’s will. Thus he exercised faith in himself as the Son of God, to be the messiah and Yahweh as his Father, and was from that point on considered alive to God. He was the first to receive the token of the spirit of adoption back into the household of God or in other words to “cross from death to life”.

    Jesus also became a “son of Israel” and an offspring of Abraham by demonstrating that he was, in fact, circumcised of heart and ear. The Bible states that he became the firstborn of the “sons of Israel”, the first, by adoption, to re-enter the household of Yahweh from among mankind. By understanding that he was both the Son of God by physical identity and now, by the fulfillment of the legal requirements of the law, a son of Israel, we can see what is meant when God states, “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father “.

    (Psalm 2:6-8) . . .[Saying:] “I, even I, have installed my king Upon Zion, my holy mountain.” 7 Let me refer to the decree of Yahweh; He has said to me: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father. 8 Ask of me, that I may give nations as your inheritance And the ends of the earth as your own possession.

    (Psalm 89:26-27) . . .He himself calls out to me, ‘You are my Father, My God and the Rock of my salvation.’ 27 Also, I myself shall place him as firstborn, The most high of the kings of the earth.

    Jesus achieves his mission on earth. He presents himself to the provision from Yahweh, the builders, the provision of the “nation of Israel” with its priests, and the Pharisees and Sadducees, who all reject him. He then removes the “kingdom” interest from among them. In the case of the nation or organization of Israel it meant that only the true Jews who were circumcised of heart and ear, the remnant, those that Yahweh still had influence over were removed to follow Christ. It is an easy mistake to equate the title “Jew” with the physical connection to Abraham and the physical nation, a mistake even Paul made. The description “spiritual Jew” is used incorrectly to try to make a distinction between the physical Jew and those under the influence of Yahweh when in fact there was always only one group, those circumcised of heart and ear under Yahweh’s influence.

    In Romans Paul makes it clear who the Jews are. He teaches this remnant/kingdom the “Good News” that there is to be a new provision over them, “a new nation producing it’s fruit”, with a new administration that will bring them true peace and security. Jesus makes a covenant with the twelve tribes, the “sons of Israel, the offspring of Abraham, the true Jews, to allow them to share his inheritance, or as the law stipulated a one-part inheritance was promised to them so that 144,000 of them would rule with him over the earth as kings and priests. He is then put to death on a torture stake (gives up his life force into God’s keeping).

    According to the covenants and promises made to Abraham, Jesus is the first to be resurrected or stand before Yahweh and receive the wages for his stand. In this case he receives an out-resurrection. Some have called this an earlier resurrection but since it is a provision for all the sons of Israel through the covenants and promises made to Abraham and his offspring, out-resurrection from the grave to earth, the return to existence on earth, out-resurrection is more appropriate. Yes there is no provision for a resurrection to heaven, not for Jesus who we know was resurrected to earth then ascended to heaven, nor for those who are resurrected at Armageddon. Those of mankind receiving this out-resurrection, are returned to life on Earth with those still alive. Only after this and Jesus’ decent from heaven, do 144,000 hear the call go to meet him in the air to share rule over the earth. Remember that “New Jerusalem” is arriving not leaving.

    Jesus is the proven statement that Yahweh will bring us back to life or existence by preserving our lives, or preserving our life force in the memorial tomb. This is why we say we have the “hope of the resurrection”, meaning the hope gained by the physical proof supplied by Yahweh returning Jesus to life from the grave.. He remains on earth for many days in his spiritual body, materializing to many as proof that he is again alive. On ascending to heaven Yahweh gives him his inheritance: rulership over Yahweh’s kingdom interests in both, heaven and on earth, the first born’s two part inheritance.

    In the Bible book of Matthew, Jesus points to a new heavens that he would make by casting Satan out of heaven. We would see signs of this, one of which would be world war. The other signs are described in Matthew 24.

    (Mt 24: 14) And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

    Armageddon comes, and with it the end of this system as we know it. Christ descends from heaven calling out (out-resurrection) all those in the memorial tombs who can hear his voice, those who put faith in him. The righteous receive an out-resurrection resulting in return to existence on earth. The unrighteous also are resurrected or stand before Yahweh. They did not exercise faith in the Son or call on the Father, thus the result of their resurrection is to be left in the grave, now just Hades (mankind’s common grave), to await the coming destruction. They are turned over to Christ, meaning that there are now no longer any memorial tombs in Yahweh’s care. They remain judged and unconscious, and receive the wages of being sinners, death or final destruction in the lake of fire at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ and his new administration. This end is called the second death from which there is no resurrection. Remember that the first death was one condition that the unrighteous had entered into and thus we can see how they can enter into a second death or condition without ever being conscious. Thus the second death is destruction.

    All humanity still living at the time of Armageddon, along with those who have received an out-resurrection are changed by receiving the balance of their inheritance, of which they already have received a token, now giving them a full complement of holy spirit, with its resulting increased intellectual capacity. This event is described as the “Twinkling”.

    (1 Co 15:50) However, this I say, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep [in death], but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this which is corruptible must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when [this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and] this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: “Death is swallowed up forever.” 55 “Death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting?” 56 The sting producing death is sin, but the power for sin is the Law. 57 But thanks to God, for he gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

    Through the increased intellectual capacity and self control that the holy spirit or active force produces in mankind, they are now able to fulfill the requirements of their obligation of relationship with God. Also at this time the 144,000 hear the call to meet Christ in the air to take up their new role as the next provision, the new administration for the twelve tribes/ the kingdom of the earth. We can imagine it is at this point that Jesus and the 144,000 take control of the realm that to this point has been controlled by Satan, “the authority of the air”. Satan and the rest of the demons are imprisoned.

    *** it-2 p. 867 Satan ***
    The apostle Paul associates Satan with “the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places,” and he speaks of them as “the world rulers of this darkness.” (Eph 6:11, 12) As a governing force in the invisible realm immediately about the earth, Satan is “the ruler of the authority of the air.” (Eph 2:2) In Revelation he is shown to be the one “misleading the entire inhabited earth.” (Re 12:9) The apostle John said that “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.” (1Jo 5:19) He is therefore “the ruler of this world.

    (Ephesians 2:1, 2) . . .Furthermore, [it is] YOU [God made alive] though YOU were dead in YOUR trespasses and sins, 2 in which YOU at one time walked according to the system of things of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience. . .

    The new administration headed by Jesus takes control of this earthly kingdom for a thousand years. Jesus who is now called the “Amen” rather than the “Word” is ruler of Heaven and Earth and as we have seen shares the rule of this earthly kingdom with the sons of Israel.
    The twelve tribes fill the earth as death has been swallowed up forever, and the only way they can now die is by standing against Yahweh. They have received their inheritance, represented by the token of the spirit of adoption given earlier, and are now sons of God in its true sense having put on incorruptibleness and immortality through the inheritance of holy spirit and their relationship with the Son and Father. The thing hoped for has now been realized. Their minds, once corruptible, no longer remain so due to the increased mental capacity of the acquired full complement of holy spirit. This allows them to finish putting on the incorruptible apparel so that they are no longer naked before Yahweh. The tents, the mortal bodies they resided in, have become permanent dwellings, homes they will live in forever through the full complement of holy spirit. To put it simply, they have put on immortality which is life with the absence of natural death. The Bible states “puts on immortality” because only Yahweh has immortality, the rest put it on by the relationship they have with him.

    At the end of the thousand years the demons that have been kept in pits of dense darkness are released to go misleading the entire inhabited earth, now filled with the last possibility to be considered within the question, a large population of perfect humans. This may not seem likely, the misleading of a large number, but you must remember that both at the flood in Noah’s day and at Armageddon, the population of man was in the millions, possibly billions, yet only a few, eight in Noah’s day, would stand. Thus we have an idea of what few means at Armageddon. When the consideration of this group and the demons is completed without a path to life being found, Hades and the ones among the sea of humanity who have fallen and are now considered dead to Yahweh, are cast into the lake of fire.

    (Rev 20:13) . . .And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and Ha′des gave up those dead in them, and they were judged individually according to their deeds. 14 And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire.. . .

    The kingdom, the interests of God, will now be returned to Yahweh in the original order they had been when removed from him. Yahweh is again all things to everyone. There is now only one Kingdom, the Father’s.

    • Peter K. (admin)

      traveler – You have preached quite excessively on this site in a very short period of time. That is not the purpose of this website. You are not having a two way discussion. I do not find any evidence that you are listening to or responding to any specific comments from people or specific scriptural evidence presented in articles. Therefore, I will carefully examine any further comments you make. If you are not directly responding to specific points from people or articles and want to continue just preaching, I will start deleting your comments. Please take no offense. This website is a place for respectful two way communication, not one way preaching conversations.

  • Anon-Bro

    Everything that you will find in the IT Book under “Last Days”
    “the conclusion of the system of things” IS HAPPENING
    note the Apostasy that would happen from 1914 onward WITHIN the Organization
    in the parable of the weeds and the wheat, the weeds grow WITH the wheat
    The Slave asks what should we do? The Lord says NOTHING, the angels are the reapers
    If the Slave DID something all these Apostate Wolves would DF EVERY Sheep in their congregations in retaliation.
    What you do is hanker down, stay off the Radar, maintain your spirituality, effect the individuals who the HS connects you with and REMAIN LOYAL to Jehovah come what may

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Hi Anon- Bro, Welcome and thank you for commenting. Are you fading or still going to the kingdom Hall. Tell us more about your story if you will. I know some in my family that are staying under the Radar so to speak.
      Me, I just had to get away completely. There were consequences at first but as I made new friends and got deeply involved with helping others get on their feet the shunning and stuff don’t bother me anymore, in fact I have more free time without having to visit with so many witnesses.
      He actually never spoke of creating an organization, that is a manmade scheme to make money and acquire property as they stated when applying for the Warwick properties, that they buy and sell real estate. Nice to have you here. Jacqueline

      • just stay sweet and good


        Mankind has always tried to get organized so they can have an advantage over each other,
        either to hold power, hold land, to manipulate the money, intimidate their enenmies, control people, ect.
        Thats what gangs, cartels, governments, big business corporations are all about. When the sons of Israel were just governed by their righteous laws and judges they did just fine, but when they insisted on an organization aka Kingdom he told them “your not going to like it!’
        He memtioned the disadvantages that they would have to put up with. He reminded them that: “I am your King, you Lawgiver, and Judge” If they had just focused on just staying sweet and good they could avoid all that drama. Perople get into power calling themselves your servants or ministers and do the old bait and switch and you end up serving them.

    • greg (Bible Student)



      To supplement your expressions may I point to Mark 13:14, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31-35, Pages 572-574 in Volume 4 of Studies in the Scriptures, and chapter (study) 9 in Volume 2 of SitS.

      I find it interesting food for thought.

      How much longer will Jehovah and Jesus allow the JW organization to misrepresent and malign HIS good name by misleading and mistreating people?


  • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

    From the info I am getting there doesnt seem to be anything that anyone knows of. Will have to ask around a bit more. I think with translation apps it seems it would be possible to converse in some way the info?


    Merhaba, ismim Deniz-Adem.
    Hello, my name is Deniz-Adem. Have you any publications in Turkish?

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      We will get your answer today and get back with you.

    • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

      Are there any other languages that would be beneficial for you? Turkish may be one that is difficult but we will try and see if something can be done to help.

      • DENİZ

        Thank you very much. I want to share this good words with my friends.

        • Lee Anthony (Brandon)

          Here is a link to a site that has some different languages that I am aware of at the moment. Maybe one of these could help?

        • greg (Bible Student)


          I also did search around a bit trying to locate something–anything even–in Turkish. I have not yet found anything either.

          But I really want to express my deep awareness of how frustrating it might possibly be for you, and how you might experience that as very isolating. So I really want you to know that I care, that I very much wish to encourage you to never give up, to never let discouragement overcome you.

          Over the years, I’ve experienced great pain at being isolated, lonely, discouraged, frustrated, desperate, overwhelmed, and even panicked. I also well know the pain of having questions, wanting answers, wanting support, wanting fellowship, wanting and needing relief and encouragement, and feeling so powerless and bewildered as to where to even begin.

          So, please continue your Christian walk knowing that you really aren’t alone, and that God and Christ are never far off from any one us who love them. I’m confident your efforts and you determination will be richly rewarded.


  • Only God Jehovah has the right to say peace and safety and His Christ I love. Friends,.

Leave a Reply

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>