The Great Crowd – Who Are They?

 

Bible Student Elder, David Stein, discusses the doctrine of the Great Crowd (Great Company).  Who are they?  What does the Bible say about the Great Crowd?  Where are they mentioned in the Bible besides Revelation 7.  What do the other scriptures in the Bible have to say about this group and how does this help us to understand Revelation 7.

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37 comments to The Great Crowd – Who Are They?

  • Cazenovi (Bible Student & JW)

    Revelation is indeed a tough book to study not intended to be a ‘start’, for it is the last book of the Bible – and for good reason! I am aware that the foundation of Revelation culminates much of the prophetic writings of old.

    I anticipate studying this topic more when I get to Revelation in my study projects.

  • Stan

    Revelation 14:1 One Lamb is literal plain and simple. When someone starts saying it is symbolic there are several lambs, all the saints are lambs. You are then not even close to being a chosen Bible Student.

    Revelation 7 has a numbered and a unnumbered amount of people mentioned. To say the numbered is symbolic makes the unnumbered group ridicules.

    Who would I see a person going hard and strong for the prize? Those who have been using the studies, including all six. Or, those who know very little about the studies and disagree a lot with the studies.

    Consider the reward. Rulers with Christ as a member of the Bride. Or a part of the heavenly underachievers who serve the bride in heaven. Or a failed underachiever.

  • ZionsHerald

    Hi Rick and Ken!

    This is one of my favorite subjects as we’ve devoted our Friday evenings for the past couple of years to study the book of Revelation. I personally have taken extra time to research hundreds of commentaries on each section of Revelation to get a good grasp of the different ideas that have been out there, in each of the respective interpretative schools of the Apocalypse such as Historicism, Preterism, Futurism, and the Allegorical approach. The idea that this is one group is somewhat new and based (I believe) upon more of a futurist perspective where the thought is that the 144,000 are literal Jews. Some who have that view see this as Christians in a symbolic sense, but still somehow make them the same group.

    As for Chilton, I’ve got his book at home and it doesn’t appear to me that all of the ideas Chilton uses quite fit with what he is trying to prove. The example he describes from Revelation chapter 6 shows two different groups, the creatures, and those to whom the creatures are speaking to. He heard a creature say “come” and then the horse from the seal makes its appearance. I am not at home at the moment, but I do have Chilton’s book and I can take a look to see if there is something more to his explanation of what he is referencing. Perhaps I am missing something.

    My personal view is more of a contextual view within the book of Revelation. In order to identify if this is one or two groups we must determine this from the book itself.

    From the context of Revelatoin 7 there are some descriptive differences between these two groups. One is a group that has been sealed on their foreheads and the other is not. One group is wearing white robes, and the other needs to wash their robes. One comes through the great tribulation and the other doesn’t. One is chaste (Revelation 14) and one is not (needing to wash the robes).

    I believe that both groups are described in Revelation 19 as being in heaven. The Great company is identified with the same exact words and they are invited to the marriage supper of the lamb with the Bride in heaven. The other group, the 144,000 are the bride. She is wearing the white linen of the righteousness of the saints, the pure robes, and has made herself ready. The great company is not the bride of Christ. The 144,000 are as the same description is used in Revelatoin 19 with the 144,000 of 7 and 14.

    There are more distinctions I could make between these two groups, but for sure both groups are associated as being located in heaven very directly and very clearly in heaven in Revelation 19:1.

    Jeff

  • Rick Vanderhoven

    I believe that the 144,000 and the “Great Crowd” are really the same group being described from two different perspectives, divine and human? ie John heard the (perfect) number; then he sees the actual group. This “hearing” then “seeing” sequencing is actually a literary device that Saint John uses frequently in Revelation to display his images from different viewpoints. David Chilton clearly demonstrates this pattern of hearing and seeing in Days of Vengeance:

    For example, in 1:10-13, St. John hears a Voice, then turns
    to see the Lord; in 5:5-6, he hears the Lion of Judah, then
    sees the Lamb; in 6:1-8, he hears a living creature say “Come!”
    – then sees the object of the creatures command. The same
    pattern appears in this chapter: St. John tells us, I heard the
    number of those who were sealed (v.4); then, after these things
    – after hearing the number of the redeemed – I looked, and behold
    a Great Multitude (v.9).

    • Ken(B.S.)

      Rick I agree……..the 144,000 is a symbolic number NOT literal as some people believe!

      • Peter K. (admin)

        Ken – I suggest that it is best to be consistent in interpreting symbols and numbers. In Revelation, numbers are generally found to be literal, even if what they apply to are symbolic. For example, there are literally seven churches, seals and trumpets. Even though the churches, trumpets and seals are symbolic, the fact that there are seven of them is literal.same with 1260 days. Although days represent years, there are literally 1260 of them.

        If we don’t insist on consistency, we can make Revelation say anything we want it to say.

        • Ken(B.S.)

          Ken(B.S.)

          April 17, 2016 at 11:03 pm · Reply

          Hi Bro. Peter, if numbers in the book of Revelation are always literal then how do you explain Rev. 10:15, are there literally 4 angels holding back the 4 winds?
          And what about Rev. 10:16 Where it says the number of mounted troops(NIV) was twice ten thousand times ten thousand, should that be literal also?

          • Cazenovi (Bible Student & JW)

            Also the 12,000 from 12 tribes are said and accepted to be symbolic, so how is the full number 144,000 literal?

            • Peter K. (admin)

              Cazenovi – Thanks for commenting.

              What do you mean ” 12 tribes are said and accepted to be symbolic?” Accepted by whom?

              What do you believe the word “tribes” represent here?

              What do you believe the number “12,000” represents here?

              What do you believe the number “144,000” represents here?

          • Peter K. (admin)

            Thanks Br. Ken for some great questions. I can only share my thoughts and each one has the Christian liberty to decide for themself.

            Whatever the “angels” represent and whatever the “winds” represent in Rev 7:1, can we agree that there are four of each? If so, then “four” must be the literal number four here.

            If there are not literally four angels and four winds, then how many angels and winds are there?

            In Rev 9:16, if not literal, what would 200 million be symbolic of?

            The New Albany Bible Students Revelation notes has this suggestion: “Rev 9:16 — Suddenly, out of nowhere, we have mentioned armies of horsemen numbering 200,000,000. The context just about demands that this verse be connected with the previous verse. These “armies”
            are, apparently, the third of mankind which have become Protestant. They are horsemen because they are being carried foreword by their new and exciting doctrines. This verse says that the John class “heard the number of them.” This statement is true as witnessed by the chart in THE DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES, page 16. This chart, published by the London Missionary Society, shows us that at the beginning of the Laodicean period, the world numbers approximately 116 million Protestants. Adding the number since the days of Luther, 200 million of them during the Philadelphia period is a reasonable estimate — still vastly outnumbered by Catholics, but definitely a vast number.”

            As best as I can tell, numbers in Revelation are literal, but what those numbers apply to is symbolic.

            • Cazenovi (Bible Student & JW)

              This comment resonates with me, I meant that I accepted that the 12 tribes were symbolic, I am not sure what I believe regarding the literal. But I agree with you that: “As best as I can tell, numbers in Revelation are literal, but what those numbers apply to is symbolic”.

              I anticipate studying this topic more when I get to Revelation in my study projects.

              • Peter K. (admin)

                Cazenovi – Revelation is a tough book and not the starting point. The rest of the Bible, including Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. lay the groundwork for interpreting Revelation.

                I will suggest that the 144,000 on Mount Zion are spiritual Israel. Divided into 12 tribes shows 12 basic personality types. In other words, there will be sympathetic priests in the kingdom from every personality type that have gone through similiar experiences as people from mankind with the same personality type and can relate to and help them best.

            • Ken(B.S.)

              Hi Bro. Peter, that’s one of the things I like about this group of Bible students; you can voice your own opinion about a scripture/teaching without fear of being shunned or called an apostate or being disfellowshipped!

  • Fire Fox

    What is meant by Matthew 7:21?
    I was born and raised JW, but recently, I’ve began to question whether or not we were the only group that had a chance of everlasting life.
    I thought it would be wise to seek an outside opinion, as the general answer I hear from most brothers and sisters is that it is proof that only we and those that join us would be saved from destruction at armageddon.

    • Anonymous

      Fire fox, Matt. 7:21 means just what it says…”He that DOES the will of my Father is the one who’ll be saved”, in other words,no matter what religion you confess to be in….being in that religion isn’t going to save you. So if you’re a Jw and the end comes and you’re not doing Gods will then you won’t be saved,on the other hand,if you’re not a Jw but are doing Gods will then you WILL be saved.There’s no way this scripture can be twisted any other way!

    • Sharon

      (1Tim 2:6) who gave himself a corresponding ransom for ALL what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.

      (Matthew 20:28) Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for MANY.”

      (Mark 10:45) For even the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for MANY.”

      (Colossians 1:14) by means of whom (Jesus Christ) we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.

      Dear Firefox,
      There is a resurrection of ALL That means EVERYONE disfellowshipped JWs, JWs, Baptist, Muslims, murderers, dictators, Christians. Many does not mean “many” JWs or “many” Baptists, etc. It means ALL.

      I hope that answers your question as to who will be destroyed at Armageddon.

    • Jacqueline

      Firefox, hello and thank you for commenting. Let’s see what the scriptures says. Does it mention Armageddon? No, because Armageddon is not judgment day. I will come back later after everyone weigh in to tell you an experience.

    • Sharon

      Fire Fox, go to the following link to find all kinds of articles on “WHO WILL SURVIVE ARMAGEDDON”:

      http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/category/armageddon-2/

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Fire Fox -Jesus’ followers get a special salvation today, however those who reject the message will have a future opporrinity to be saved.

      1 John 2:2 – “He is an atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. – Weymouth

      1 Tim 4:10 – God…is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.   NKJV

      Rev 22:17 – “the bride say, “Come!”… Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.   NKJV[An invitation to unbelieving mankind on Paradise Earth.]

      Rom 8:19,21 – “the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God… also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God  NKJV

      1 Peter 2:12 – “Gentiles… they may, by your good works… glorify God in the day of visitation.”  NKJV

      2 Thess 1:10 – He comes to be glorified in His saints & admired among all those who believe   NKJV

      2 Cor 5:19 – God reconciling the world to Himself & committed to us the word of reconciliation. NKJV

      Acts 15:16-17 – I will rebuild tabernacle of David, So that the rest of mankind may seek LORD,  NKJV

      Rom 11:30 – through mercy shown you [Gentile Christians], they [Jews] also may obtain mercy  NKJV

      Find more here:  http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2011/03/19/two-salvations-a-ransom-for-all/

  • Joseph Zarola

    Thank you Brother Jerome Harris. Thank you for the clarity of this wonderful future paradise provision you have helped reveal…may they actually read your post, and come out of the false religions.

    Blessings.

    Joseph

  • Joseph Zarola

    Simply put, no man shall see God the Father until the 1000 years of purification in New Jerusalem are completed, then all of the inhabitants of that City will descend to the earth, and the great confrontation will take place.

    All of those slain for their belief in Jesus, and who were beheaded, came out of the Great tribulation, and they all, a number which no man can number, stood before the Throne of God, and the Lamb. All of the over-comers will be in New Jerusalem for the 1000 years to be purified by their King, Jesus, and at the end of those 1000 years, they will descend to the earth in New Jerusalem and be witness to their King devouring satan, his angels, the false prophet, and all those who were a part of the second resurrection, into the lake of fire.

    That is when the paradise will begin, with this “New Creation” of perfected mankind, walking the earth with incorruptible bodies, able to eat, and drink, and live life with an joy never known to mankind. They will not procreate, for they will be as eunuchs, and they will never die, nor thirst, nor pain, nor have tears again.

    So ask yourself, who IS that false prophet that will be thrown into the lake of fire with the original dragon, and all of the armies from the West, North, South, and East, who are annihilated from off the face of the earth by the breath of our Lord?

    The 1000 years the Watchtower speaks of, is their time on this earth, exposed as the great false prophet, and the hoards of followers are the unrighteous resurrected prepared for the day of their second death with the wicked one.

    Why would they claim the earth for themselves, unless their leader Satan was misleading them into believing that they are God’s chosen ones?

    There are uncounted billions of humans who will descend from New Jerusalem, to find their exquisite delight in the peace from the Ancient of Days, and His Glorious Son, Jesus.

  • On the basis of all Christian Websites, comments, scholarly treatises, blogs and commentaries one is lead to the inescapable conclusion that God must be an idiot without the slightest clue of what He is doing.
    They seem to forget that He shall always complete what He set out to accomplish come what may. Jehovah is the ultimate and most perfectly accomplished keeper of promises made directly or implied.
    In Genesis 1:26-28 Jehovah clearly stated His entire purpose for creating a fleshly image of Himself. That was a promise absolute He made to Himself in the hearing of others and enshrined in the above verses as documentary evidence for humanity.
    They were to live on earth and nowhere else. Many other assurances of the trueness of these promises and others made later to better facilitate their implementation, have been communicated by Jehovah to His human children.
    Chief of these must be His unwavering intention to have His purpose carried out through to the end, here conveyed to us from a translation that managed to better capture the meaning of James 1:17: Every gift which is good, and every perfect boon, is from above, and comes down from the Father, who is the source of all Light. In Him there is no variation nor the slightest suggestion of change. Weymouth NT 1912
    What caused James to say this with such obvious confidence? Inspiration? Perhaps. But let it be understood that James was familiar with the OT which, in the context of James’ words, had this to say in Isaiah 55:10-11 where Jehovah reassured Israel of their future place:
    10 “For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth, And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 So shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. NAS
    As an aside, I noted someone here say that Jesus never used
    the term Christian. Really? WOW ;-)! It just means anointed,
    that’s all and does not identify a follower of anyone be that
    the Anointed (Christ) Jesus or any other creature,
    because Jehovah simply DOES NOT allow creature worship.

    Now with all that in mind, why are Christian people ever so eager to go to heaven? Ah, yes, to get away from the mess and all the badness that religions, especially Christianity have wrought on earth. Good, commendable reason I’m sure, but not in keeping with Jehovah’s purpose.
    To fix things and to get Humanity back on track to complete the original Genesis promise reinforced through His sworn promise to Abraham, Jehovah selected a little flock of anointed Israelites drawn from all genders and ethnicities numbering NO MORE than 144000 be given the Kingdom to administer the completion of that original Genesis project.
    That is only a temporary measure lasting until the handover to Jehovah at the end of the 1000 year kingdom 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.
    No I have not forgotten the Great Crowd of Revelation 7, but needed to provide a setting of purpose.
    Here a mini-version of the page ‘The Stranger’ on my website under the Jesus Christ menu button:

    Once upon a time a stranger rode into town on an unbroken young donkey amid welcoming cheers from the populace.
    (John 12:12-13) 12 The next day* the great crowd** that had come to the festival, on hearing that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 took the branches of palm trees and went out to meet him. And they began to shout: “Save, we pray you! Blessed is he that comes in Jehovah’s*** name, even the king of Israel!” NWT
    *The day after he arrived at the home of Lazarus
    **Some read great multitude, large crowd, much people or other.
    ***Most OLB Bibles read Lord, except the NKJV, NLT, while the NAS
    deviously hides that by capitalizing quotes from the OT in
    their entirety.

    Jesus anointed (Christ) to be King and High Priest rides into Jerusalem to claim the throne amid jubilant crowds cheering their welcome.
    That ride was sadly, and purposefully, interrupted by the gallows of his execution.
    While much of the nation he was to be king over, lay sleeping in their graves, only those still alive at the time were able to welcome him.
    Alas, after the heavenly Only Begotten Son of Jehovah had inherited all that Jesus had become and accomplished, that ride continues even as we speak to reach its crescendo, in just a little while longer into the future, where once again a great crowd will welcome him as he rides into heavenly Jerusalem to finally receive the throne and begin his rule for the 1000 years:
    It is all happening at the one time: The ride, the building of the royal city, the calling of the constituent elements of that city dead and alive to the consummation with their bridegroom rider as he fashions the Bride into the kingdom for the 1000 years to undo all the damage rebellion had wrought upon heaven and earth.
    As he rides into that yet to be completed town, a Great Crowd of the anointed Kingdom heirs still alive in the flesh welcome him in anticipation of what awaits them – Revelation 7:9: After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd*, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. NWT
    * Just as when Jesus rode into town some 2000 years earlier,
    we see a large group of people unknown size holding palm branches.

    Just like the much larger crowd of Israel under the Mosaic Law resting in the sleep of death when Jesus arrived in town, the greater portion of the chosen little flock of 144000 are likewise still in their graves* at the imminence of Christ’s Heavenly Kingdom when the original only begotten heavenly son and archangel Michael rides into the heavenly city of his making.
    * –At the opening of the sixth Scroll Revelation 6:9-11

    While the anointed dead had already been given a white robe pass at the opening of the 5th seal in Revelation 6, Verses 14 15 of Revelation 7 sees the Great Crowd of their brothers still alive welcoming their King, almost instantly no longer on earth, but in the heavenly Temple precinct itself upon being granted entry into the heavenly city after completing the washing of their robes into an acceptable whiteness –Revelation 22:14.
    The entire congregation of christs i.e. individual anointed ones of the little flock making up the Bride of Christ all dressed in white, will finally enter the heavenly city they collectively are the very moment they are gathered from the grave and from those still alive to become that city. -get the message?
    All shall wear white garments/robes because that is the only identifier that allows them to enter the city they become as they enter it.
    It just so happens in the chronological stream of events, that some of the chosen saints will still be alive in the flesh at the time of the call of their gathering – Matthew 24:29-31:
    29 Immediately after the tribulations of those days, shall the sun be darkeneth: and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall move. 30 And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven. And then shall all the kindreds of the earth mourn, and they shall see the son of man come in the clouds of heaven with power and great majesty: 31 And he shall send his angels with the great voice of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, and from the one end of the world to the other. Tyndale (Rogers, Coverdale) 1535

    Just as those saints gone before were given a white robe at the opening of the 5th seal, along with a kind word for them to be patient just a little while longer until those still alive, still busy washing theirs into an acceptable whiteness, can join them as they together and at the same time meet their lord in the air when he comes to take them home to himself, as promised, to be the Kingdom for the 1000 years.

    17 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together* with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 NKJV
    * or at the same time
    51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed–– 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 NKJV

    Again here the plural personal pronouns are absolutely essential to establish identity of those in the focus of Paul’s epistles.
    It behoves all students of the Bible seeking an accurate understanding of Jehovah’s purpose, to first read the introductory verses of every epistle to determine who were the target audience of the apostles; not humanity in general, but just a small segment thereof destined to be of profound benefit to all.

    Much more necessary detail on my website, but in summary:
    The great crowd out of all nations and tribes and peoples which no man was able to number* from Revelation 7:9 are those of anointed Israel still on earth at the commencement of the Kingdom’s birth. They cannot be numbered because no one, not even God, can tell who will remain faithful to the end and how many will die before in order to rest a little while longer to join those who will be changed in the twinkling of an eye for them altogether at the same time rising to meet their Lord in the ‘air’ at the beginning of their 1000-year rule as the Kingdom of the Heavens.
    * does not mean too numerous to count. It is just a metaphor to express an unknown quantity like sand and stars.
    Did Jehovah lie when He promised Israel impossible-to-achieve star- or sand-like numbers?
    No! Because He did not know how many would come out of Jacob’s loins and, even more importantly, how many would finally qualify.
    Enjoy and be edified.
    Dieter

  • humbleman

    R. Jerome Harris i am struggling to under stand your logic are you saying we should not refer to the bible as Gods written word ? of course the bible does not take the place of God and Christ but he has given us the bible to help us understand his personality and his divine plan for mankind. There is only one WORD OF GOD the lord Jesus Christ. but please dont think for a minute that the people on this site do not under stand that Bro humbleman

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Humbleman – Yes, if I understand Jerome correctly, he only considers Jesus’ words an authority, not the rest of the Bible, even if Jesus often quoted the Bible as an inspired authority. Here is a quote from Jerome in a recent comment, he says, “Notice how what becomes important is what “The Bible” says and NOT what The Christ says about it. Are persons students of the Bible (disciples of the Bible) or students of Christ (disciples of Christ). Both cannot be “The Word of God.””

      My answer to Jerome is yes, both can be the Word of God, since God inspired the Bible. Notice that Jesus referred to the teachings of Moses as the Word of God when he criticized the religious teachers in Mark 7:13 (NASV), “thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

  • How many JWs who are members of the Great Company are there? For the sake of argument, let’s say 200 million collectively throughout all time periods. (Of course this is way too liberal a figure. I just want to make a point)

    Yet, Revelation 7:9 says:

    “After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.”

    Notice that this Great Crowd would be a number – no man would be able to number – that come out of ALL nations and tribes and peoples and tongues.

    Too, notice that this Great Crowd is under the rule of “The Lamb.” That is, “standing before his throne.” In other words, this Great Crowd is seen within Christs “definite” 1000 year kingdom.

    Why are they there and where to they come from? They are the products of the First and Second resurrection. Both resurrections resulting in the promised resurrection of ALL in their graves. (John 5:28-29)

    This Great Crowd that no man will be able to number will be persons returned to life again since Adam – to INCLUDE Adam. That will be a lot a people no man can number. Their numbers are “like the sands of the sea” and they are seen AFTER Christs 1000 year kingdom ends. (Rev 20:8)

    Some of you think it is “only” members of particular religious organizations. That makes no sense. Adam and all who have “died” since Adam will be in Christs 1000 year kingdom and after it ends (and when Satan is released from the Abyss and misleads them all) will have the Good News of the Kingdom preached to them by the angel. (Rev 14:6, Rev 20:7-8)

    The only way persons who lived and died before Christ first appeared on the earthly scene can ever again everlasting life beyond the future 1000 years is if they are resurrected to life again, become subjects of Christs 1000 year kingdom and have the Good News (afterwards) preached to them.

    This Great Crowd makes up ALL persons born since Adam to include Adam himself. Recall that Adam DID NOT PERISH, he died. Therefore, he will be called up from the dead in due season.

    1 Cor 11:3 identifies who is the Head of mankind. Notice I said “mankind,” not members of particular religious organizations. The Apostle Paul says:

    “But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.”

    Jesus’ death “purchased” the entire human family. Christ owns us. He is our Master.

    Whether or not one wants him as their Head is irrelevant. Whether they chose or reject him is irrelevant. Whether one lived thousands of years ago or born at this moment is irrelevant, this Son of God died and purchase ALL OF MANKIND. He is ALL of mankinds Head.

    That is why he promised a resurrection for ALL in their graves. (John 5:28-29) He promised this to a robber, remember? Whay would ANY person be any different from this robber? Jesus asked forgiveness for those who persecuted him and eventually put him to death. Remember? Why would any – past or present – be any different from those persons.

    What is this message about the Great Crowd (Company) that you are teaching? This is not of God and Christ. It is of men.

    Sadly, you like the people on the Plain of Shinar long ago, seek to make a name for yourselves by preaching and teaching “organizational” teachings (of men).

    This Christ you teach is a false Christ and the “Great Company” teaching you present does not even come close to resembling the teachings or the patterns of the teachings of the true Master and Christ.

    You do not have the truth. You deify the teachings of men (such a Russell), organizations, and a book called by men, The Bible, RATHER THAN, listening to Jesus [the] Christ himself as Jehovah as directed us to at Luke 9:35.

    In this audio talk, I hear more references to “The Bible” saying this or saying that rather than ascribing the things said to God or Christ.

    For example, if Jesus says something, the speaker ascribes the thing said to “The Bible” saying it. Even the introduction of this thread states, “Who are they? What does the Bible say about the Great Crowd?”

    Notice how what becomes important is what “The Bible” says and NOT what The Christ says about it.

    Are persons students of the Bible (disciples of the Bible) or students of Christ (disciples of Christ).

    Both cannot be “The Word of God.”

    This shows how deeply-rooted the deception has become where “a book” (and even religious organizations and men) are deified and sit in a holy place where they do not belong.

    The picture shown on this thread from a Watch Tower publication depicting the Great Company is false and misleading. People will not be standing around like this idly wandering around; and neither will there be a throne upon a mountaintop. One can “count” the numbers of people depicted here. Because they can be “counted” implicates the “organizational” teaching of a relative few out of the human family who will be members of this Great Company.

    There is ONLY ONE Word of God and it is NOT a book. It is The Son of God and we are to listen ONLY to him. (Rev 19:13; Luke 9:35)

    True to what the Master says: “We do not know what we are doing.”

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