Here is the true story of a JW aunt that disowned her niece and nephew over a charge of Apostasy. The names have been changed to protect the privacy of the hurt and injured. We have permission to publish the email correspondence. This exchange of emails occurred in September of 2013.
First is the CONDEMNING CORRESPONDENCE FROM AUNT KATHY.
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Dear Mike and Julie,
It saddens me to hear the things I am hearing from family members and they are the same thoughts I have had for over a year now, and it has come time for me to get back to you from our last correspondence. The enclosed article says it better than I can. Jehovah means what he says. I won’t EVEN give Satan the satisfaction of conversing with you the subject matter as I know now for a certainty, with all my heart, what has happened to you. I am so sad. Your such a lovely family. Satan must be very proud of himself. I pray with all my heart that the enclosed article touches your senses, or reasoning on the event that has overtaken your love that you had at first. WHY? WHY? Cause you got weak in the moves from across the country and you were an easy target. Oh, to be sure you will prosper. You’ll be happy. Life couldn’t be better. Satan is a mimic, he’s been observing Jehovah and his heavenly origination for thousands of years and he knows exactly what to do. He is good at it. Apostates focus only on those who serve Jehovah. As if that’s their only enemy. Well guess what? They are right. THE TRUTH is only through one channel, and all that you have forgotten Jehovah will bless others with it, too bad. But your CHOICE. I had hoped I was wrong, but the more I see Jehovah’s Organization on the move and its channel of reaching people in over 600 languages, who else could be behind it. What religion in all the world will bother to print in 600 languages and distributed without charge. Out of the multitudes of religions, who else is fulfilling Bible prophecy, even the need to write this letter. Who out there have you disassociated yourself with?
Well, for the loyalty I have for Jehovah, and the brotherhood, I MUST not and WILL not associate with you, NOR, will I stand by and let my grand dtr go without notice and to protect the integrity of Jehovah’s suggestions , I don’t want my great grand dtrs , growing up and being influenced by the same teachings you are teaching your dear sweet children. So therefore copies of this will be forwarded to all family members known by me to be in the brotherhood, so they will know or be aware of the danger they may be exposed too. (I don’t know why or what I did to change this print) its not intentional, truly. I am just not computer literate. Or I would change it.
Guess what I found it by accident. Don’t know what I did once again. But this print is softer, (smile). Please Mike, Read every word of that article and tell me it wasn’t written to you. Please, have Julie read it. Hopefully its not to late. Jehovah’s love and arm is far reaching. If your heart is right with HIM, this will have served its purpose. Either way, I feel it serves its purpose. Your not dumb Mike, blinded maybe, but not dumb. Eve was blinded, but Adam was willing to go along for the sake of her, I hope Julie is not following you the same way. But if she is, she is allowed to make her choice. I did research on your questions and everything took me to “apostasy” references. Subtle questions to put doubt in your mind. It worked on you. But, I am smart enough to FOLLOW EVERY WORD as close as I can and listen to what Jehovah has taught me and he says red flag on this, and I am not taking any chances and going any further. To bad, cause we really love you and Julie, kids, they are story book children. May you be as happy as you can possibly be and read this over as well as the enclosed article with sincere heart (which I know right now is sincerely wrong). But then when the pagans offered their children up for sacrifices they were, too, sincere, how much more sincere does it get, right, Possibly I am right. Jehovah Witnesses do have the truth. Are you as 100% your right and we are wrong? What you are doing Mike is apostate, pure and simple even a blind man can tell.
Be well, safe and all that you can be. You truly do have only one life.
With all the sincerity I can muster up,
Kathy
Click below for the Watchtower article that aunt Kathy attached to her email.
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BELOW IS THE RESPONSE FROM MIKE, THE NEPHEW.
Subject Line: EXTREMELY UPSET AND HURT
Hi Aunt Kathy,
Thank You for your email although I must say I’m in shock, Julie and I are so upset I can’t even put it into words. At least you came to us first unlike some who talk behind our backs not bothered to even ask just Judge, although you didn’t meet the requirements of MATTHEW 18:15.
I want to say that yourself , Bill & Lisa have no idea why I have chosen to stop associating with Jehovah’s Witnesses. You’re calling me apostate and yet myself and Julie are the ones being attacked and judged by you, Bill & Lisa. I have never ever tried to persuade you, Lisa , Bill or Sandy away from being a Jehovah’s witnesses, not once.
Now if you are saying that my asking questions about scriptures makes me an apostate, then I am guilty, but we both know that’s not what Jehovah meant. The issue I see here is my questions unsettles the average Jehovah’s witnesses because the scriptures I show and talk about are not in agreement with the teachings of the watchtower society, but the truth of the matter is only the Bible is inspired and if the teachings of a religion are not in accord with it, I will not follow them. I follow my God Jehovah and my brother Jesus Christ.
Jehovah’s witnesses are trained to have a mindset that if one leaves the Organization they are leaving God. I have news for you, you do not own God almighty. He will show mercy to whomever he pleases ROMANS 9 v 15-16. His origination is a heavenly one not an earthly one. It is not an organization we should be following, because Jesus Christ he alone is the way the truth and the life John 14 v 6.
I agree with you that there is only one channel that truth is coming from. HEBREWS 1 v 2-3 will give you that answer. I hope me using my father’s word is not unsettling you. I pray you read the scriptures I am quoting without you first thinking you don’t need to read them because your right and I’m wrong, because that would be being blind to the truth of scripture.
In your email you asked me WHY? WHY? I will give you a few reasons why I left a religion (NOT GOD). The first thing that really stood out to me was ROMANS 11 especially ROMANS 11 v 25-29. I would stay up to all hours in the morning reading it over and over again, a lot of the time with my dad on the phone 6,000 miles away. I looked at the WT explanation of those verses and compared it with the Bible Students, the old light I guess you would call it. and the more I read it and cross referencing it with other scriptures there was no possible way Jehovah’s Witnesses are right. I could go in to this subject in great detail. I take my relationship with God very seriously, but you are already convinced in your heart and mind that I am an apostate. Do you even know how much that hurts ???.
One of my other reasons is I believe the great crowd are a heavenly group, while I see the 144,000 the same way as Jehovah’s witnesses. In short the 144,000 are the kings and priest while the great crowd represent the Levites who did temple duties and assisted the priest. Here are my reasons for believing this, the Greek word in revelation 7 v15 for temple is “Naos.” In the Greek scriptures there are two words for temple “hieron” & “naos.” Only the Greek word “naos” is used in the book of Revelation and only refers to Gods heavenly sanctuary where only those of priestly decent could enter. At this point ask yourself how does a non Israelite Great Crowd member enter Gods sanctuary ? Other scriptures connecting to this subject are EZEKIEL 44 V 10-15, PSALMS 45 V 13-15, REVELATION 19 V 1, REVELATION 19 V 6-9. When you do a search in the WT library on Ezekiel 44 v 10-15 you will find that there has only been one article on these verses in about 80 years. EZEKIEL 44 v 13-14 shows a group of Levites who will not become priest, which eliminates them from the 1440,000. Yet they still serve in Gods sanctuary (NAOS). Then verse 15 shows a group who never went astray, the 144,000. Keep in mind Ezekiel’s temple vision is a vision of the millennium temple and its future with two groups in the temple sanctuary.
Now to PSALMS 45 v 13-15 this is a picture of the marriage of the lamb notice that there are two groups the bride and her virgin companions who both enter the temple sanctuary “naos.” They are both in the same location and yet the WT cannot agree with it — why? In REVELATION 19 v 6, look who is present at the marriage of the lamb. It is the Great Crowd; the reason being that they are guests at the wedding — they are bridesmaids. In the Revelation Grand Climax book, on page 124, paragraph 14, the WT says that the Greek word NAOS coveys the whole of Jehovah’s temple, including the court yard. Yet, if this were the case then there would not be an issue on my part at all, but it is the Greek word HIERON that conveys the whole of the temple, not naos. So I ask the question, why is it that a religion who is capable of translating the Bible does not know what these Greek words mean? If they do know what they mean, why has it not been corrected in the new revised Revelation Grand Climax book?
I believe 100% that the time we live in is for gathering the kings and priest — the bride of Christ. This did not end in 1935. The Great Crowd of Jehovah’s Witnesses are said to be the nations from ISAIAH 2. The problem is when you take all the scriptures together concerning the nations who receive GOD’S blessings, it doesn’t happen until after the battle of Armageddon; not before. I could show my reasons for believing this, but I think I have said enough at this point.
If you choose to believe I am apostate, then you are free to believe that. However, let’s get one thing straight. That’s your opinion not GODS. GOD and Christ are my judge — no one else. You can be sure of two things. When I return with my savior Jesus Christ, I will see you in the kingdom and I will accept your apology with open arms, along with everyone who is condemning us and judging us. I will love you all as worshipers of the only True God. I hope it doesn’t take for us to die and come back for this to be realized. If you ever choose to speak to me in this life, I give you my word I will never discuss spiritual things and make you feel uneasy. I mean every word I have said in this email sincerely and I pray that you don’t just delete it thinking I am just a man who doesn’t love GOD.
I hope you can see I am a man who truly loves God and tests everything. Keep in mind 1 CORINTHIANS 2 v 14-15. I still feel I have more to say because my worry is that after this email I may never see you again until the kingdom. So I will touch on one more point. This has to do with the sheep and goats judgment. In MATTHEW 19 v 27-28 when Jesus sits on his glorious throne it is after the battle of Armageddon in the re creation or new world, not before revelation 20 v 11. All the scriptures that Jehovah’s Witnesses use to show people dying an everlasting death at Armageddon are referring to the final judgment in the kingdom (second death) MATTHEW 25 v 45-46; 2 THESSOLIONIANS 1 v 6-10; ISAIAH 66 v 24; REVELATION 21 v 7-8. When you read 2 THESSOLIONANS please keep in mind who Paul is speaking to the first century Christians, and he is telling them that on judgment day (1000 years), those who persecute the first century Christians will go to everlasting destruction if they do not obey the Gospel. So before believing this is talking about Armageddon, ask yourself, how can the people who persecuted the first century Christians go to everlasting destruction at Armageddon if they are not brought back to life until the kingdom.
All I can say is test everything never get comfortable being in a religion. The only security a person can have is being in Christ — He is the way and the truth and the life. I know at this point you are probably thinking to yourself that Jehovah’s Witnesses must have GODS backing now that they are over 7 million strong and are all united in thought throughout the world. Every other religion also feels the same way — Seventh Day Adventist are over 14 million strong. Do they have a better method of preaching? Catholics are over 1 billion strong. I am not claiming Seventh Day Adventist are right or even Catholics for that matter. I think there both wrong. I think any religion is wrong. It’s not about being part of a religion. It’s about being part of the body of Christ. GODS true sons have not yet been revealed to the world – Romans 8 v 19-23. I agree GOD’S worshipers should be united in thought, but this does not mean they are robots. We should have freedom in Christ and if I see a scripture in a slightly different way, then that is my GOD given freedom – Romans 14 v 1-12. I agree that all Jehovah’s Witnesses think the same and act the same and treat people the same, but that is not very difficult when there is only 10 men doing all the thinking for 7 million people.
We love you Kathy. We also love Bill & Lisa. You have disowned us on the grounds of apostasy and yet not once did Bill or Lisa do as Matthew 18 v 15-17 tells us (you will not understand what the love of GOD is until you come away from the slavery of man and their doctrines that constantly change what is truth.
This year the truth will most likely change again at the next convention, and every Jehovah’s Witnesses will welcome it with open arms like it has been divinely given by GOD; without even thinking, well did GOD have it wrong the first time??? It’s guess work at best. For over 100 years the Bible Students have discerned from scripture that the bride of Christ will be with Christ and return with him at Armageddon. Jehovah’s Witnesses have only just recently received this light. Why is that? Why did they go back to the old teachings? I will stop here.
I am only scratching the surface for my reasons for leaving, but I feel this is enough. I feel this scripture is appropriate. Isa 29:13 And the Lord said: “Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment taught by men. Sending this to you with all our Christian heart. xoxoxoxo
PS…..Julie would like to say a bit
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BELOW IS THE RESPONSE FROM JULIE, THE NIECE.
Aunt Kathy,
I’m not sure where to start, but I will say this first. Mike’s comment are very well put and wise. I would like to make it clear to you that I will only follow Jesus & Jehovah. I do not follow Mike, NOR Man. So I want to make it known this is MY CHOICE. Mike has mentioned to me a couple of times that if I thought the Witnesses where right, he would want me to stay a JW. However, I have read the Scriptures for myself and it has become clearer then I have ever thought. I can honestly say that I was following man for all these years and now I follow only Jesus. I only wish I could be as wise, disciplined and Respectful as Mike can be and read the Bible with the understanding he has. You may not believe everything that we do, but we can Back our belief’s up with only the Bible. Can YOU?
I’m trying so hard to be as nice as Mike was in his comments, but really, I’m just so upset that I think you need to hear how upset I am. If only you could Feel the pain and betrayal that I feel with all of this. Your letter left a very bad taste in my mouth. You are a lovely women Kathy. Don’t get me wrong, but your words are as sharp as a Sword and makes me think real hard who I want close to my family. For me, I want people who are loving, caring, encouraging, inspiring, nonjudgmental, respectful & patient. I did NOT see these qualities in your letter. All I saw was Judgmental, Condemning, Non Loving, and Disrespect. I am very upset with it all and let alone it being family members to hurt us like this. Especially when you bring Becky and Her Girls into this, as they are the closest things I have in the family. Becky is not only my Cousin, she is my sister and my best friend and I love her so very much and would miss her Dearly if she chooses to disown me.
I have NEVER talked bad about JWs and I will NEVER discourage them in anyway. I want them to love Jehovah and Jesus as much as you and I. But how can you talk down to us like we left GOD and make us feel like we have Leprosy or we’re deceased and not worthily of your association. Please, PLEASE, tell me when did Jesus ever take someone that loved GOD very much with all their heart, and He Disowned them? Or when did he Treat his brothers like pigs, and not associate with them and made people turn their backs on them? Jesus NEVER did, NEVER!!!! He was Loving, Caring, Encouraging, Inspiring, Non Judgmental, Respectful & Patient.
Sorry if you thought your letter was “Helping” or “loving” Quite the opposite more like a slap in the face or spit in my eye. Please tell me why do you treat us so horribly if you portray yourselves to be Jehovah’s “Only Loving” People? We love GOD just as must as you do. You can’t put GOD in a box and hide him away form the rest. What gives you that right? Calling my husband that awful, Disgusting word “Apostate” really takes the cake Kathy. So Please, tell me again how you can Now read hearts??? Or that you can now see how much or how little We Love GOD? Really?? Shame on you Kathy. You should Really know better. However, saying all that, I still want you to know We love you. We would NEVER treat you like you are treating us.
In my eyes you are not being a loving Christian. That goes for all JW’s and formal Family members. You are not following how Jesus told us to be like. You are following man and what man has told you to think and act like, Not Jesus. You can “Advise” all the JW’s you want, but at the end of the day my love and concern is with Jehovah GOD and my Christian brother Jesus Christ. To my Family or formal Family I should say (and the JW’s) they will make their own decisions individually. If Becky chooses to disown me, then I will respect her and her choices and will wait for her on the other side with open arms. That goes for all of YOU. One day in the future we will all SEE the truth and if “GOD” sees favor in us; we will all live in a perfect world together. I do Pray for you Kathy, just as much as you say you do for me. I pray that GOD does not judge you as you do judge others, and that he softens your heart and gives you a sense of peace for GOD’S people. Sending this letter with all My Christian Love and My Last, GoodByes – Farewell ,
Julie xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox
There one similar question I really ask and does this make one apostate? Will there be a physically new earth and heaven? Revelation 21:1-5. The answer to this one question looks like it is a yes. In one way you might agree that the earth we live on today will be restored. But that one question: Is there going to be a new earth physically?
Ashley here is the link I talked about. Revelation is a book of symbols and Rev. 12 actually has nothing to do with the year 1914. That is the year the Gentile times ended for the Jews. 2,500 years was up and the Balfour declaration set the Jews free after WWI. WWII the Jews had the right to be a NATION again and this has never happened in history that a nation of people were dominated and lived all over the globe came back together in one small land and are still not mixed with other nations. So the 2 world wars set them free. Read this link to get another outlook on what Rev. 12 chapter is talking about.
https://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2014/03/01/war-in-heaven-michael-the-archangel-verses-the-dragon/
I feel for those that the JW organization (like some other religions) does not teach the truth about God’s/Jehovah’s Holy Spirit, or the heavenly spiritual body of Jesus Christ. His died for the salvation of the individual, not religions. We are to worship God/Jehovah thru Jesus Christ in Spirit and Truth in our individual bodies, as well as fellowship with each others as HE tells us. I pray these people who leave the JWs keep praising, praying, thanking and seeking HIM, and not get snared by the many deceitful satanic groups and religions present these days. God/Jehovah have mercy on us all!
Hi Faith, thank you so much for commenting. That is some great counsel for believers in Christ. On here we try to encourage each other. Discussing the Word of God is what gives us strength and hope as here we can disagree, think and express what we think a scripture is saying. Some that leave high control religions lose faith but we are “keeping faith alive”. Take care and feel free to comment on other articles or ask questions. Jacqueline
Jacqueline,
I have never gagged people by how much they know the Bible. Many years ago in London there the was a man, who for a few coins quoted any scripture from the KJ you asked of him. He was right on, word, for word. He was not a Christian, nor did he believe in the Bible…plus, he had no idea what most of the scriptures were about.
It may not be clear to us today why God has allowed something. It doesn’t have to be…it is clear to him, and that is all that matters.
God left his people to wonder, and die in the wilderness for forty years…I’m sure they did not like that, and I’m sure they asked why? He did not tell them. Today we know what they did not. They left Egypt as slaves. Their thinking was as ex-slaves. People like that could never go into a country, and conquer its people. That is why God allowed only those twenty, and under to invade the promised land. It had to be people who did not think as slaves think. The older ones had to die off. Their off springs were still Gods people.
Me I’m one who always ask our Father, “Father, why is the sky blue? Father, do you hear me?”
I seek the ones who search out Gods truth. The ones who test it to see if it originated with God. These are the ones I learn from. Our time in the wilderness was for a reason. I would like to know why…I do find joy that God allowed it, and so long as he knows why, I know it had to be for a good reason, and that makes it a good thing. He made me a part of something he was doing.
Domenic notice I said they could quotes scripture and a many times they had it right, I the witness had it wrong, ie The Jewish nation and Jesus dying for all. I just stated a fact that they could quote scriptures but I as a witness wasn’t a Christian as I was taught to follow the org instead of or in place of Jesus. The good old days, the leeks and garlic or in our society when children died from the mumps and measles. We can disagree and that is okay. I have nothing to be proud of as a witness now that I look back on how I accepted, associated with persons distorting God’s word about armageddon being judgement day and the destruction of billions because they didn’t join an organization. I might have an experience with a heart attack or get severe burns all over my body but I would wish or rather such a negative experience didn’t happen.
The Israelites sinned against Jehovah, that is why they were not allowed to enter the promise land. It took courage to go thru the red sea and to leave egypt, so they didn’t think as slaves. A slave will fight if he is free. I agree, one shouldn’t question divine providence nor always think everything is divine providence for “time and unforeseen occurences befall us all” also.
I like you attitude and wording for you seen to be one that studies the scriptures and you are a joy to have on this site. You seem sincere as you share with us your thoughts on matters it rounds us out to hear others.
Please forgive me if I am not ready to cut the governing body any slack yet. I wish them well, no harm but I will warn anybody I see not to go under their control unless they check them out and decide that’s what they want to do.
I used to find it strange…knowing the JW’s are a false religion, yet most of us came to know our father, and his son, our Lord Jesus from them. I do not view the years I spent with them as wasted. Before I was a JW, I did not even know Gods name. I knew nothing. God allowed me to be there, as he allowed Joseph to be sold as a slave, and be in prison for seven years. I have heard many say, “I wasted 25 years with the JW’s.” God allowed it, and he never allows anything for a bad reason. Look at us, we are still his servants, and the truth has made us free.
Domenic I agree that God permits everything to happen by not stopping it. I learned a lot of lies about God and basically nothing about Jesus. I had to unravel so much in my brain that it was a handicap. But I do admit I know freedom because I was a slave to this organization for over 60 years. I benefited by now, fighting, the ability of anyone enslaving my mind again. So they taught me that. I could have learned about God from the bees and if I was allowed to talk and listen to other religions. I know lots of people who have never been witnesses that will run a ring around me on the Bible. The Bible Students can use the Bible in a way that put me to shame and I know Baptist and Methodists that can quote some Bible. I learned lies about my God from Jehovah witnesses and could have done without the experience. But God knows best and I submit to his allowance of the test. If you can survive JW, you can survive anything.
As a pastor I find this completely appalling, how can any group of people who claim to be followers of Christ teach and enforce such hate. While I understand the affects of brainwashing, how it works and the genius of this disgusting practice I still can’t understand people who carry this kind of dogmatic hate and the systematic spreading of this foul doctrine. I pray for those in the trap of JW teaching, preaching and judgmental damning of those who disagree with them. I have often invited JW’s into my home to pray with them and try to show them the true love of Christ but most are too entrapped by the satanic teachings of leadership to see beyond the darkness of their blindness.
I wish we had a “Like” button here like facebook. Mr. Hamilton I have a male child that I birthed following these people in shunning me and his father. I didn’t just take it however without letting him know what God loves! It has been four years and he is coming around on his own as I honored his request. Two of my other sons repented in sackcloth on the night they came in my face with this decision to not speak to me as I peacefully just walked out of the religion after 61 years of trying to understand the craziness of it all. They their wives and my grandchildren came to their senses within 24 hrs or less.
I was brainwashed but with both parents being disfellowshipped from this religion IT NEVER CROSSED MY MIND TO NOT SPEAK TO MY MOTHER OR FATHER OR SAY ANYTHING FOR THAT MATTER.
You know I am telling the truth because I am still alive. Take Care Mr. Hamilton
Pastor Jim Hamilton – I would like to point out that not all JWs are alike. Although, in my opinion, the organization exercises too strong a control over it’s members, some JWs are of a more friendly and kind to other members with differences of opinion. However, if you will permit me, let me kindly turn the tables on you and ask about your congregation. Do members in your Church have the Chrisitian liberty to express a different opinion in Bible Studies? What if a member wanted to discuss the pros and cons of whether or not the Trinity were a true doctrine?
Jacqueline, my prayers are with you and pray you continue in the loving peace of Christ.
Peter, the Mission Statement for my congregation is quite simple, “Making new and better disciples for Christ”. The only way to learn is to have the freedom to question. I worked with youth for more than 25 years, mostly senior high, and if you have ever worked with youth you can’t help but know the number and level of questions they have. I learned early on the best way to teach was to allow them to express their opinions and disagreements and I have carried that lesson throughout my ministry.
I do not tell people what to think, I don’t condemn them for ideas, thought or beliefs I may not agree with or find Biblical support for. They must reach conclusions within themselves, not by someone else dictating what they should think or believe. The truth of the matter is I welcome their questions and greatly enjoy open, non-threatening or condemning discussions. I promote these discussions and the Bible study in my home is not just from my congregation or denomination and includes Muslim converts, Messianic Jews, Catholics and others, believe me, there are some great discussions that come from this group, we often open discussions with the quote “Those who believe they believe in God but without passion in the heart, without anguish of mind, without uncertainty, without doubt, and even at times without despair, believe only in the idea of God, and not in God himself.”
Nothing is left off the table; the trinity, abortion, homosexuality, judgmental attitudes, the Law…any and everything is open for discussion and I NEVER tell someone else what to think or believe, as I said, they must come to a relationship with Christ of their own commitment, not by the dictatorial laws, dogma and doctrine. I teach, I preach but I do not dictate.
Jim, thank you that means a lot.
Jim – Thanks for answering my question. I wish all the Christian Pastors had an attitude like yours. God bless your ministry. Glad to have you here.
Now you have me curious. Do you think it important to find the most accurate truth in doctrine and prophecy that we are able to find or do you feel it doesn’t matter what view we have? For example, Hell torment – no problem?
God’s Word provides us with prophesy, history, result of prophesy and a path to salvation. It also carries law. None of these should be ignored, without the entirety of God’s Word our faith is incomplete and without without substantive support. Our study and reflection of the Bible should be constant and inclusive of complete context; meaning is we want a clearer understanding of the Bible we also need to explore other writings as history and gain a glimpse into the society in which it was written.
So to answer your question, yes, I believe it very important that we come to the clearest understanding we can of these issues. The important thing to keep in mind is these issues help to bolster our faith and understanding while remembering that out salvation is based on our acceptance of the offer of salvation and obedience to Christ, it isn’t, or at least shouldn’t be based or dependent on doctrine or man.
As to the question of hell. Most Christians base their vision of hell on a fictional writing, “Dante’s Inferno”. We are only given glimpses of hell in the Bible and there is great discussion as to whether these descriptions are physically accurate, symbolic or visionary. I have a very simple definition of hell, separation from God, for me that is pain enough. I deplore preachers and leaders who use hell as a scare tactic.
Jim – Thanks. I like you. From what I hear from you, I think your congregation is lucky to have you. Not that my opinion is worth a hill of beans.
Let me just add this. In John 17:17, Jesus said, “”Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.” I think that the Truth of the Bible, including doctrine and prophecy, ultimately gives us a deeper insight into God’s character, thereby helping to sancitify us, make us more holy, more like him. So in this regard, in the Dark Ages, religious leaders did not have such a problem torturing so called heritics since they thought it was in God’s character to do the same.
Thanks Jim for joining us here and contributing.
Jim – I am not sure if you are still a contributor to the site or not, but a too am fond of your spiritual perception based on your current understanding of scripture. It is through persons like you that God is directing others toward Him. May Jehovah God bless your church through our Lord Christ Jesus. Hope to hear your insight.
Agape in Christ,
Cazenovi
It was such a heart-rending set of messages. Mike’s reply, though, was such a mature and wise way to reply. If given the opportunity we should keep it in mind.
Recently, some family members among the Witnesses have tried to make trouble for me. The thing is I faded out ten years ago and began associating myself with some of the brethren through the internet. So there wasn’t a formal severance though more than enough time has passed and my public activities are such that the local elders are not obliged to do anything and seem from what I hear second hand disinclined to do anything official. Yet that doesn’t seem to satisfy those who are stirring the pot.
So Far I’ve just ignored them since my affiliation with the Bible Students is now a matter of record on the net in my real name. Should things changed and I am approached my position will be that under the vows I took my allegiance is to Jehovah God and his son and my promised one, Jesus Christ and so the Witnesses hold no authority over me, period. I didn’t leave my God and my savior, instead I followed them where they led me.
I am fortunate, except for my wife, I am pretty much estranged from those in my family among the Witnesses for other reasons which had their origin before I left and they were already shunning me before I left. So even if the elders did something on their own initiative or at the Watchtower’s behest nothing will really change.
Since I am involved with several ministries which reach out to the Witnesses I do keep up with some key changes in teachings and policies as I can, but that’s about it. The witnesses did produce one really good reference work over the years, though one still has to be careful where it discussed issues of doctrine. That was the “Aid To Bible Understanding” mentioned by Sister Jaqcueline. It was an honest effort by Raymond Franz to put together an excellent reference work and only really falls short in the places where hid uncle Frederic Franz and the then president Knorr stepped in and order changes to conform with then JW teachings they didn’t want undermined. I have a copy and know of at least one Brother who never had anything to do with the Witnesses who keeps a copy handy as well.
As far as I’m concerned as long as I am reaching out to Jehovah’s Witnesses who are looking for freedom I’ll need to be familiar with their beliefs in part because I’ll have to be prepared to deal with the apologists they have online who are sent out to muddy the waters.
Dupin
I would like to just say concerning the email received from the aunt she is typical of mostly the self righteous pioneers in the organization. I don’t know for sure but she sounds like one. How unloving but typical of witnesses.
The reply by the wife, We are speechless because you said it all and so tactfully but with the spirit that you would expect from a mother protecting her family. I don’t think the aunt factored in this mother protection that is hardwired in the woman.
I hope in a few years that all is revealed and families can get back together.
This organization with it’s governingbody acts just like satan, breaking up families, of men. He tried to destroy the relationship between God and his first two earthly children.
They are just like him.
I totally disagree with the disassociation between the servants of Jehovah’s Witnesses, in my view this implies and even encourages one to go against all that is wrong because after practicing as everything is wrong and then show a regret such a person is readimitida again, this is very strange because it becomes a vicious cycle like: ‘I’m practicing what is bad and then show a regret and am readimitido again, I am at peace with the congregation’ I believe there are other forms that need corrective and can be applied to those who practice something wrong in the congregation.
I am sincerely sorry that this happened. Myself a more than 25 year former JW who left the organization quietly by disassociation – which came as a shock to all because it was unexpected, fully understands the feelings one goes through when disfellowshipped, disassociated, or accused of being an “apostate.”
But here the thing: Why allow the WTBTS or any religious organization define who or what you are? If you allow it to define you as an apostate, then you are still in captivity and a slave to that organization! You are to be a slave of Christ, not any religious organization.
You are not an “apostate” because the WTBTS (or any religious organization) says you are! No person or organization has authority to decide for itself who and who is not “anything.”
Sadly, many STILL consult Watch Tower publications as if they are an authority. This shows that those persons – who think they are free – are not.
No religious organization made a sacrifice in behalf of all of mankind so as to take ownership of it. The Apostle Paul teaches us at 1 Cor 11:3 that mankind has only one “Head, Master and Lord.” That Head is Christ, not a religious organization.
Thus, it is the Head of mankind who made the sacrifice for us and therefore owns us. We are his slaves.
If a religious organization arrogates itself to decide who among the Masters “property” is worthless, then that religious organization has acted like a thief. It has taken what is not theirs to take and what it did not pay for with blood.
Today, the Masters household (all persons) are under the control of a thief (religious organizations).
Only the Master of the slaves can decide who are and who are not his. And because a persons views are not in alignment with a religious organization does not mean a person is not under the ownership of Christ.
In fact, it is the religious organization who is the Apostate in relation to God and Christ. They all teach what Christ has not.
So take courage and hold your head up high, Christ has not dismissed you. Did he condemn that adulterous woman? No he did not!
Count it has a blessing when you are falsely accused. Remember that your Master was falsely accused to.
Get as far away from all religious organization as you can because Christ is not within them, he is “without” of them. Read Hebrews 13:11-14 and notice where our Master is. He is not “within” organization (a camp), he is outside of it and we are to “GO OUT” to where he is” outside established things. Notice carefully that Hebrews 13:14 tells us that: “for we do not have here a city that continues, but we are earnestly seeking the one to come.”
Many are not seeing this: There exist today no religious organization by any name “that continues” that Christs disciples can go into. None!
We are to “earnestly” seek “the one to come.”
Those of you within religious organization and have adopted THEIR names upon yourselves (JW, International Bible Students, Mormons, Catholics, Seventh Day Adventist, etc), you are inside of camps neither God or Christ established.
Neither did Christ tell any of you to be known by those titles. Neither did he tell you to be known as Christians! You told yourselves.
No where does Christ refer to himself as a Christian (he never used the expression), NEVER does Christ refer to his disciples as Christians. NEVER did his disciples address each other as Christians either.
Christ simply told us to be his “Disciples.” That’s it. And to make more “Disciples.” All of these fancy titles come out of the “camps” that God and Christ did not establish.
So when one is accused of being an apostate, pay it no attention. No human or human entity has the authority to judge another.
Worry about how God and Christ view you, not how a religious organization does.
Ron Harris, I agree that no one should let another person put a label or define who they are, such as an apostate. Thank you for bringing this out.
Many do I admit consult the watchtower org as if they are the touchstone of truth.
Often I will post from the watchtower.org as I have to be up to date on what is going on. Many here need you to know what they are hearing so runners of websites consult all sorts of other sites. Since we have grown to maturity we can read material to determine what is happening like a newspaper but not believe or accept it as authority. Once we were told to read nothing but what the society wrote, bad advice, knowledge increases your faith and helps you to understand where others are coming from when you keep updated.
“Worry about how God and Christ view you, not how a religious organization does”, What a truthful statement!
The aunt sent the letter to all relatives in the JW brotherhood. My son has done the same so his father and I renamed him SAUL OF TARSUS. Often this aunt and other Sauls will change in a big way. Hopefully she will just make her decision and not control the other members in her family, how unloving. Saul became Paul, hopefully this helps this dear family.
In the 3/15/86 watchtower, I noticed it cited the scriptures….2Tim.2:25-26….which encourages gentle correction to oppenents(“Jw apostates”)that they may come to their senses.The Jw’s apply these scriptures to the ones they consider “apostates”(i.e.from their teachings)but when you read the entire chapter of 2Tim chapter two,especially vs 16,18 and 23,it becomes clear that Paul is warning about..”Profane and foolish teaching”(vs 16)…”Saying the resurrection has already occured”(vs 18)…”Keep away from foolish and ignorant arguments(vs 23) The Jw’s turn this into ANYTHING spoken bad about their religion is considered apostasy.
“Aid to Bible Understanding” book pg 90,Apostasy:means literally “a standing away from”(greek verb aphistemi) but has the sense of abandonment or rebellion. Apostasy from Christianity: lack of faith (Heb 3:12) lack of endurance in face of persecution (Heb.10:32-39), abandonment of right moral standards (2Pet. 2:15-22) and the list goes on in the Aid book. But nowhere does the bible indicate that questioning misleading teaching (blood doctrine, shunning) counterfeit words(pedophilia issue actions said to be from 2 witness rule under the law code) 2Pet 2 and 2Tim 2 actually says the opposite. Substituting a Governingbody in place of Christ.
So Jesus and especially Mary would be an apostate, all of the apostles stood away from the Judaism of their day. In fact Jesus started something brand new and stood it away from Judaism that was once right but had become corrupted.
So we are in good company of Great Apostates that stood away from an organization that says it rules already as the earthly manifestation of Christ kingdom.
I embrace my apostasy.
BTW; the governingbody in the July 15th,2013 study issue of watchtower with one sentence did away with the “Evil Slave Class” and said these are ones right among them as individuals. So at any given time this organization changes it’s own long held doctrine, so, why should I follow them down this ever changing path normally fueled by whether or not they can lose money on the teaching. If so abandom it with a pen stroke.
Right Jacqueline.I could never trust the organization again,in fact, when you keep reading the NT over and over again you begin to realize the Jw religion and all others like it(cathlics,mormons,7th day advt,etc)don’t resemble the early christianity of the Bible!