Polls

Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.

Translator

English flagItalian flagKorean flagChinese (Simplified) flagChinese (Traditional) flagPortuguese flagGerman flagFrench flag
Spanish flagJapanese flagRussian flagGreek flagDutch flagBulgarian flagCzech flagCroatian flag
Danish flagFinnish flagHindi flagPolish flagRomanian flagSwedish flagNorwegian flagFilipino flag
Hebrew flagIndonesian flagLithuanian flagSerbian flagUkrainian flagTurkish flag  

Articles & Posts

Should the Governing Body be Questioned and Put to the Test?

Keefa contributed and interesting comment that we present below slightly modifed.  We do not mean to cause offense to those highly respect and regard the Jehovah’s Witness Governing Body.  However, what we do want to do is raise the question, how can any religious group know that they are in the Jehovah’s Group with Jehovah’s  appointed leaders? 

It is hard to talk to a Catholic since no matter what the Bible says, they trust the Pope and Church tradition.  It’s hard to talk to a Mormon, since the book of Mormon supersedes the Bible and since the Mormon president is God’s prophet in their eyes.  Shouldn’t there be some way that a Catholic or Mormon could discover if there is any mistake in their group or if their group is even Jehovah’s Group?  Yes, at some point, the authority of the Bible needs to supersede what these self styled Apostles claim so as to determine if they really are representatives of Jehovah.   It is circular reasoning to just accept their authority without putting it to the test, otherwise no person could ever find their way out of a false religion, since everything their authority says is correction, no matter what the Bible appears to say different.  Below is Keefa’s article

     ———————————————————–

Did you know that our organization has hidden the true meaning of Rev 2:2 right before our very eyes, its has not rendered the Greek reflexive pronoun accurately.

NWT reads (Revelation 2:2) ‘I know your deeds, and your labor and endurance, and that you cannot bear bad men, and that you put those to the test who say they are apostles, but they are not, and you found them liars.

I have used two other translations to make the point clear of how the verse should read:

NAU Revelation 2:2 ‘I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;

NJB Revelation 2:2 I know your activities, your hard work and your perseverance. I know you cannot stand wicked people, and how you put to the test those who were self-styled apostles, and found them false.

On a good note the Kingdom Interlinear  version correctly renders this verse and think you may to check the variance.

So the phrase we want to focus on is who call themselves apostles, In Greek  “heautous  is a Greek reflexive, plural pronoun.The reflexive pronoun reflects the action back to the subject, and therefore, the English translation will use such words as myself, yourself, themselves. So linguistically I propose the Watchtower society is hiding something from us here and that’s why I think it is noteworthy to check other up-to-date Bible translations and if possible purchase a lexicon and look at the meaning of some these words.

Now here is the doctrinal error.. Who does it say we should put to the test? According to the NJB translation those who were (are) self-styled apostles.  Who has claimed to be the brothers of Messiah? is not the Governing Body the ones who make special claims of having been appointed and then sent by Jesus who are the focus of what we read, in part, in Revelation 2:2.  

It seems likely, therefore, the Society has deliberately omitted any discussion of ‘putting them to the test’ when it coesm to its own claims to appointment and authority.  Instead look in the Watchtower 2012 CD ROM, I only see 5 hits of the phrase “put those to the test.”  So in 64 years no Watchtower article has ever stated that the Governing Body should be put to the test by its rank and file members.

Instead they turn this around on us rank and file members as the ones who are put to the test by them (field service hours, meeting attendance, contributions, regional building work etc.); but instead why are we not listening to the very words of our Master and Messiah Jesus.  Jesus said to put those to the test who are calling themselves as self-styled apostles if anything, this testing “require” that those ‘testing’ the Watchtower Society reject them, immediately, unless they repent (compare Revelation 2:21-23) and stop teaching things which are not true [i.e. blood transfusions, everyone who dies in Armageddon dies the second death, 1925, 1975, etc.], even requiring belief in such things for “approved association, and even if we secretly reject any teaching from the Watchtower we are still condemned. Once again, there is no application of “put those put to the test” from Revelation 2:2 to anyone in the congregations of the Watchtower, though such ‘testing’ is expressly approved by Jesus for any who make special claims of having been sent by him. As we examined Revelation 2:2, we see the Watchtower Society does not want any of its members ‘putting the Society to the test,’ though it is made up of the very ones who make the kinds of claims as self-styled apostles which we are told to “test.”

I need a good response to these questions and translation issues, can anyone help?

66 comments to Should the Governing Body be Questioned and Put to the Test?

  • Anna

    I noticed this article as I was looking on the right of the page to see recent comments.
    Should the GB be put to the test? It doesn’t look like there is a problem with any of the translations. However the scripture is miss applied. Jesus is talking to a congregation in Ephesus commending it for not tolerating false apostles perhaps those promoting the sect of Nicolaus?). This is for individual congregations and their members, making sure they do not allow apostasy.
    It is clear that it is Jesus (the master) himself who will be the one questioning the Governing Body: Matthew 24:45-51.

  • Does any one know if the watch tower benifits financialy be it tax breaks or other wise by the amount of volunteer feild service hours turned in because they sure push for those reports. Thank you

    • Jacqueline

      Hi Curious and thanks for commenting. I just heard of the letter for monetary contributions that was just read.
      Think about “the power of numbers” if every publisher drops in all the donations they get or put into the contribution box money for the mags they get to leave in the doors, that is a benefit in money. If they stop bringing in new people the numbers will fall dramatically and so will the contributions. Plus the average witness feel they earn their salvation by door to door,they are not aware “THE GIFT IS FREE, THANKS TO THE RANSOM FOR ALL”. These who work hard will stay, if they stop to do research or use that time for some serious prying and reading of the Bible, their eyes will open up. That is why they don’t encourage studying in groups. (I believe November KM 2008 or 09.) BTW, They don’t get your reports that is for your elders and the CO to gauge your spirituality.
      As far as non profit status, hmmm, I don’t know.

  • Mike

    Ernesto I find your actions personally to be extremely self serving and not reflecting any positive qualities of the bible. Your actions instead will make others support JW’s and make those may have left to seek additional truths to be lumped in with people like you. While I disagree on certain teachings of JW’s this blog and many others believe in many of the same things. However, while I might disagree with certain things and have stepped aside right now I respect their right to worship and assemble the same way I respect others. While they may not respect my right to test it’s not our right to ridicule or mock those who are sincerely trying.

    As I read the “and a lot of fun” my stomach turned and only felt pity for you since I felt so much hate in your post. I am not judge nor know your heart but your actions are not funny, actually your actions are going to make Satan and his demons very happy instead. Anyone, and I mean on this blog, online, in person other religions, etc who tear down others by mockery or slander are not ones God approves but exhibit traits of the opposite. I hope you all consider this as your actions.

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Mike – Thanks.  You have a nice spirit and stated yourself better than I could. 

      When Christians disagree, we find good general counsel in Is a 1:18 (NASV) which says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “

      • Mike

        I wish I can take credit but actually I observed another site from an elder who still serves but also has questions on material and impressed that while they question certain things he does not allow ANY to use his blog as a vicious attack board. Everyone has to keep their discourse civil and responses back by bible reasoning which I greatly admire. They can be direct but it still most be civil and without anger. If I attack someone viciously then I am no better than some who I feel do that to me. It’s a LONG ROAD for people like me but I’m trying…

        • Jacqueline

          Understood Mike, and I guess that is why Br. Peter responded rapidly. I am sort of slow, I saw the comment very early this morning but I have to think about stuff first. At first glance it seems like well whatever they want to do. But, it does not address the real problem.
          In psychology that is one of our main goals is to get the person to address the exact cause, person or thing. Anything else is like striking at the air. And I could just visualize my poor little grandchildren being afraid in such an environ.
          Also I have learned if you have to deal with the governingbody to get them off your back you have to address the only thing that they respect and that is their pocketbook or wallet in a court of law. All this other stuff does not affect them at all. They live in an Ivory Tower, these are multimillionaires with bodyguards and drivers.
          The letters written to Hitler by Rutherford got the German brothers in trouble but not the hierarchy of the society. The United States put them in jail until they recanted and stopped printing subversive info about the government in 1919. So I don’t think it is the way to go.
          Knowledge about the truth is the way to help those that find something wrong and want to get out.
          I never go after anyone and will help family get to their conventions even. Take Care. I am going out to dinner so might not see your comment for a while. Jacqueline

    • Jacqueline

      Hello Mike, first of all if you are the mike who’s Mom just died we are all looking for your number and address to send condolences. If not ignore this.
      Now on your comment. The average witness that attends the convention is doing so as a family and because they believe in Jehovah. To disrupt their meeting to me is unloving. I have Children with children that really look forward to their conventions. They have a ball.
      So I agree with you also as does Br. Peter.

      • Mike

        My mother died in 2000 but yes I did contact you about 7 months ago and talked with someone who was local to Sacramento before they kind of fell out of contact. I know my questions were many and some questions more direct which I think frustrated him a bit but my tone never was improper even if the questions were straight forward.

        I am still interested in learning more but there are MANY questions that need to be answered for me to feel comfortable. Feel free to pass on my email address to anyone who has the patience to answer a plethora of questions then rebuttal questions from the answers. lol It doesn’t have to be someone local yet as info is what I want and then afterwards it could move to the local level. Thanks

        • Jacqueline

          Thanks Mike for answering. There is a dear Mike that would come on Wednesday study when we were on Skype. He signed for his mother to get a blood transfusion although she was a witness. Her husband a witness let him do as he pleased. His Mom was young and this Mike LOVED HIS MOTHER. He did everything he could to help her. Well we heard she succumbed to Cancer last week and many of us wanted his contact info. I will check with Rick Feason and try to get it. But when we saw your name we said wow this is mike.

  • Ernesto

    Never before in the history of apostasy has there been a plan like this. Be a part of this historic event by joining ex-JWs as we stand outside of JW district conventions everywhere this year, neatly dressed and groomed pretending to be JWs, with signs directed at “worldly” passersby. These signs are going to declare actual JW beliefs and doctrine in the raw, without any sugar coating. Examples of such signs include “Blood transfusions are the work of Satan! Anybody that receives a blood transfusion will not inherit Jehovah’s Kingdom!” and “Jehovah’s day of wrath is imminent! He will kill you and the buzzards will eat your flesh unless you become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” We will also have Watchtower publications to back up these statements.
    No, we are not going to engage or argue with JWs. We are going to “be JWs” and present their horrible doctrines to the public. And if any “worldlys” get in our face about it we are going to vehemently defend JWs and the Watchtower by shouting right back at them.
    Of course the Watchtower already knows about our plans and is taking measures to hamper our efforts but if we remain diligent, this will be a success (and a lot of fun!) Be there!

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Ernesto – I think I can appreciate what you people are trying to do and I understand how you may think this would be effective, however I cannot feel good about deception, as this is the adversary’s method. 

      2 Timothy 3:13 (ESV) “While evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.”

      Ephesians 4:15(NCV) “Speaking the truth with love, we will grow up in every way into Christ, who is the head.”

      Matthew 5:44 (NASV) “I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you”

    • Jacqueline

      Ernesto, I understand where you are coming from but you are stooping to the level of the governingbody. Don’t let them do that to you. I went to court with them and these were the tactics they used against me in court. The judge however saw through it and ruled against them.
      I was devastated to see them attack me as an individual and many of the friends at the conventions will just be devastated and feel insecure even threatened. I did.
      On here we are not attack individuals. The system called the organization and the governingbody members change often. So it is not the individuals it is the system.
      The higher ups are the problem and only a mighty one can deal with that. Yes I say people should be warned if they are asking. And told if they come to us. I am not a coward in that regard. But I personally would not actively go after them because you are not hitting the Target which is the system, the hierarchy.
      The poor witnesses with their little children will feel so intimidated. But it is your choice, you have this freedom, but Br. Peter supplied great scriptural advice. In loving concern.

    • Dupin

      Ernesto:

      I do understand your desire to inform folks of the false teachings of Jehovah’s Witness and especially those which harm people in the name of God’s service. However, I’m not sure your methods do the most good.

      While I was still a Witness I heard a statement on television, which really made an impression on me in part because I did try to act in agreement with it. I think it was Dr. Phil, who made the comment in an interview that if anybody came to his door trying to get him to join them, he had to be able to see in them how their faith made them better as people and happier, more fulfilled. That really got me thinking.

      Does your method for calling attention to the problems in the Watchtower really show that your life is now better and that you try to shine light on the Darkness in that organization out of love? Or are you falling into the trap the Watchtower can use to paint you as a bitter, hateful, Apostate liar, as it does all of us “apostates” no matter what we do? Ask yourself that and whether you are truly past whatever the Watchtower leadership did to you?

      Jesus told his followers, and that includes us, too “let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to your father who is in heaven.” (Matt. 5:16) That, Ernesto, is the key to helping others and is very much in line with what Dr. Phil said. There are plenty of ways to let people know apart from standing in front of assembly sites and tickling their egos because members will see it as persecution from bitter people who hate them.

      There are forums like this one where help for those JWS who want to leave and are looking for truth and help around the internet which don’t deal in misinformation or hate. You can start a blog of your own where you can provide truth on any number of issues involving the Witnesses in a way as befits a humble man of God if you are still trying to see yourself that way. People, both Witness and non-witnes search for the truth about Jehovah’s Witnesses online. You can be a positive influence that way if you want.

      Dupin

      • Anonymous

        Amen Dupin!

      • Jacqueline

        Dupin I agree. The PEN is mightier than the sword or confrontation. I know one major website that is still up although the writer is dead. All of the comments are still there for all to see for at least 10years that the site is paid up. We know the Bible has been very effective as the Pen is powerful.

    • Frank

      Hi Ernesto,
      I can appreciate your desire to let the public “know the truth” about the Organization. However, there are various ways to get things done. Dupin put an excellent case for doing things the “right” way, backed up by the other comments.

      On the other hand, the Organization has become a master at “expediency” – they even coined a high-sounding phrase for it – “Theocratic warfare”. Strange, when you think of it. They claim to be backed by the All-powerful Creator – yet they need to resort to expediency (even cunning and trickery with words) to get things done. Is their God not as all-powerful as they claim? Or, is it perhaps that they are promoting their own methods and solutions? Go figure.

      At the deepest level, this is where most honest people find they have to part company with the WT Organization – expediency is contrary to basic Christianity.

      That being said, public displays outside conventions are exactly the tactics Rutherford advocated – placarding outside churches on Sundays. It was pure expediency – and certainly got attention – but it was not Christian. And therefore ultimately doomed to failure. The Organization is where it is today – lost, directionless, demoralized, dispirited – because of the direction it took way back then.

      As a number of posts have mentioned – real happiness (for yourself & others) comes from being positive, from doing good.
      Best wishes.

      • Jacqueline

        Frank, I emailed Ernesto and alerted him to your comment. I was one of those that wore the placards and looking back they were unkind at times. We were a pushy in your face religion. Although I was a child I still am ashamed at the many persons I aided to come to such an organization, our tactics were not Christian at all. I agree, I would just leave the organization and it’s meetings alone as the persons attending have freedom to assemble in the different countries. But I guess it has to do with your experiences with this powerful corporate organization. Take Care. Jacqueline.

Leave a Reply

  

  

  

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>