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IS THE GOVERNING BODY THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE?

Find more discussion about the Governing Body by clicking here:

Recently, the Governing Body has modified the definition of the Faithful and Discreet Slave to exclusively apply to themselves and to not include the thousands of other anointed.

In the past, Jehovah’s Witnesses have believed that The Faithful and Discreet Slave is the collective body of “anointed” Christians alive on earth and that they exercise teaching authority in all matters pertaining to doctrine and articles of faith.  This belief is based on an interpretation of Matthew 24:45-47.

Watch Tower Society publications teach that Jesus uses this group exclusively “to publish information on the fulfillment of Bible prophecies and to give timely direction on the application of Bible principles in daily life as the only means of communicating God’s messages to people.  Hence, it is referred to as God’s “prophet and “channel”.

Appointments to positions of responsibility and decisions on doctrines, activities and oversight of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide are made by the members of the Governing Body, who are said to serve as representatives of the “slave class”.  However no global network of anointed Witnesses exists to reveal new spiritual truths, and the remainder of the “slave class” are not consulted when making decisions.

Recently, some members of the anointed class wrote the Governing Body disagreeing with the way they were treating God’s household and questioning some of the teachings.  The Governing Body has permanently resolved this problem of dissent by cutting the other anointed out of the Faithful and Discreet Slave class, thereby completely consolidating their power and eliminating all opposition.

Do you believe the Faithful and Discreet Slave class of Matt 24:45-47 is:

* The Governing Body
* All “Anointed” JWs
* All “Anointed” Christians, even if not JWs
* C.T. Russell
* Not sure of the answer
* Other (Explain by posting a comment)

How would you apply the verses in Matt 24:45-47?

We would love to hear your thoughts.

————————————————————

UPDATE

“Reports are emerging of an announcement at the 128th Annual Meeting of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania that the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses now considers itself to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class of Matthew 24:45 in its entirety.”

“Suspicions were raised in the minds of many thinking Witnesses after reading articles such as the Questions From Readers of the August 15th 2011 Watchtower, where it was admitted that the Governing Body has no actual communication with memorial partakers (the “anointed”) and even feels that some of these ones may be mentally imbalanced. (see w11 8/15 p. 22)”

Find the source of this information here:

I am not totally satisfied that this new change is well documented, so if anyone has additional concrete information or support, please share it with us.

 

226 comments to IS THE GOVERNING BODY THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE?

  • Daz

    Hi everyone, hope you are all well. The was a reference made to Romans 5:18 (Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people) with regards to this you will see the word for “humans” in Greek is “anthropos”, there are two words in Greek which means “man”, “anēr”, which refers to a male individual of the human race, and anthrōpos meaning “man” or “mankind”. By translating it “human”, “person” or “people” the reader can distinguish anthropos from the Greek words for man or woman. So the scripture at Romans 5:18 does not read, “all people” but actually reads, all “mankind”. The same word is used for “man” of lawlessness as is used for “humans” in Romans 5:18, so here you can see it there is a double edged meaning & it isn’t until once we look up the greek reference that we can see this. As we know there are many references to particular words throughout the sciptures that are used in a different context to what you may initiaaly read in English. going back to Romans 5:18 we need to to establish/recognize who it actually is that God Almighty considers “mankind” to be.
    There are consequences if we do not accept Christ & His instruction, He came here to show us that He is the way, that that there is the opportunity to gain life through Him, so we (sinners) must obey His teachings & warnings.
    Romans 5:21 says, “so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Matthew 16:26,27, Revelation 3:11, James 1:12, 1 Corinthians 9:25, 2 Timothy 2:5 & 4:7,8) Do not the “goats” go off to eternal destruction (Matthew 25:46), as well as the “many”? (Matthew 7:13,14, Romans 2:8, Isaiah 1:28)
    Christ’s ransom will be applied to the entire world (1 John 2:2)not because the entire world will benefit from it (1 John 2:17, Proverbs 2:22) but because all are offered the “opportunity” to have life.
    What is the point of all Jesus’ instructions & examples if we were not supposed to follow them, we are to do as He teaches & try to walk in His ways so as to gain life, this is made clear throughout the scriptures.

    Warm & loving regards,
    Daz

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Daz, hello. Most of the world is not aware of that scripture and never will be it seems until judgement day starts. In fact a very small part of the earth’s population are Christian or have been Christian. Yet Christ died for them.
      Not many who know these words however are at this time willing or want to attain to this righteous state. That is why I believe these are millennium scriptures for most but the Church is and are under obligation to obey or not attain their calling to be in heaven with Jesus.
      I do believe it will make this a better world if people followed these words now and their life would be so much better following these rules of conduct.
      But we have to face it many are called but few will be chosen and the vast majority of Christian Church goers only go so far, they get baptized but don’t really consecrate or dedicate their lives to God.
      They ar good people however and apply a lot of these principles. Some non Christian religions also apply some of these principles.
      During Judgement Day it will be mandatory on everyone to obey what is set before us then as we will be perfect and can. Not all can now. Some are mentally disabled and other circumstances. I have come to realize for myself that a lot of the scriptures I was taught about really will see fulfillment in the Millennium. Like Daniel he was ahead of his time.

      • Daz

        Hi there Jacqueline, I hope you are well. I certainly understand where you are coming from with what you have explained here & you are right in saying that there are many that do not know Christ or unable to know Christ due to mental disabilities etc. But these ones will not be condemened because they are ignorant through no faut of their own, no these ones will certainly get a chance to know the Father & the Son, those that have no means of learning about Jehovah God & Christ will be treated justly & lovingly. What I refer to are those that do know or could know if the effort was made but chose not to get to know Christ, those who do have a chance but are just not willing to embrace Him into their lives, also those that deny Him, those that willingly & knowinly teach untruths with regards to His teaching, those who are wicked, all of these will be judged by their deeds. I know good people but sadly they do not believe in God or Christ but they are not evil people, in fact they do good to people, these will also be judged accordingly to their deeds.
        Ecclesiastes 3:17, “I said to myself, “God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man,” for a time for every matter and for every deed is there.”
        Psalms 119:155, “Salvation is far from the wicked, For they do not seek Your statutes”.
        2 Peter 3:7, “But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.”
        Matthew 12:36, “But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.”
        Revelation 20:12, “And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.”

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Daz, may I ask what time period do you see Matt 12:36 being fulfilled? I think judgement day spoken of here is 1,00 0years.
          What aboutEcclesiates3:17, What age? I see this as in the little season when God will judge after Christ turn over man to him. All judgment until that time is being done by Jesus to my knowledge and he have the keys to hell and Hades to let people out but not to put in Gehenna after the Millennium.
          Rev. 20:12 what age do you see this fulfillment? I see it also in millennium as they will be perfect and their deeds will not be because Adam”s inheritance made them do it but because they had deeds according to understanding fully the scrolls.
          There are a lot of things against man now, for instance many might not be retarded but are confused and give up because religions tell different stories. One might argue it is best I be born with retardation because we get a free pass. Or in a bad circumstance, say Muslim. But no, I believe judgement day for all not running for the upward call is 1,000 year, judgement day.
          Daz, the witnesses have to keep disfellowshipping people because they try to make regular people follow what the Church has sworn to do or uphold. It just makes sense for ALL to be judged equally in the Millennium.
          The knowledge of Jehovah will be to all’s ability to do and know. We don’t have to now pick out certain people that can’t and some that have this and that situation. That seems complex to me but simple if all are restored and finally given a chance.

  • Abydos

    They are part of the “elite” Illuminati or Rothschild/Rockefeller, Jehova(godofruin)/Jesus(GodZeus) are Just codenames for Satan, they will be SLAVES. And Im Sure they have some more VERY DARK Plans for those poor “Jehova Drones” in the NWO-System, the new “WARWICK” will probably not be a nice place. Hope I can reveal it to my father soon enough.
    JHWH bless you

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Abydos, hello and thank you for expressing your thoughts. The term ” governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses evokes some of the strongest emotions I have ever seen.
      So, I understand the spirit of your comment. They are a powerful group of men indeed. It will take Jesus to bring them down along with the rest of the religious system theses men will have to “Kiss the SON”!
      I wonder if Warwick will be built?
      Will the pedophile cases deplete their money? Only time Will tell.
      Your father and others are held fast by the indoctrination methods of this giant corporation. But he and all our telsyivez will experience “freedom in Christ”, It went be long, hold on.
      Take Care.

      Right now the government is the only one able to deal successfully with them.
      http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/jehovahs-witnesses-body-again-told-cannot-appeal-opening-statutory-inquiry/governance/article/1342175

  • sherry

    Then Jan their is no discreet slave, correct? No preaching, just plant organic food?

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Sherry to properly understand our brother Jan Hoekstra here is the website that sort of explain their Biblical views if I might be so bold. We have posted it before so I think it is okay.
      http://www.condit-energy.org/

      PS: Sherry we have found out we need to let our posters know that not everyone commenting on the site is a Bible Student, We allow all to comment, most are ex-witnesses and some are just associating with the witnesses and some have never been a witness. One time it got confusing so I thought I need to say something. Bible Students will have it posted after their name.

      • QNA ...

        Jacqueline, I think I said this before but I’m glad you clarified that not all who comment on this site are bible students, and those who are have it clearly marked after their names. Saves a lot of confusion. After all, we both know how misunderstandings can cause controversy and craziness… 😉

        • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

          Yes QNA, we learned to make it clear. However, we all enjoyed talking to you on a conference call. We gained a dear friend. You think and will stay with a conversation. I am passionate but will retreat.
          I am following your conversation with Jan (John I believe is how we pronounce it). I am at the convention in Miami Valley.
          On the site if you hit convention, then scroll down to other convention, click and it makes you to the calendar. Click on Miami Valley and it will give you Adobe connect info. Are you still at your parents? How are they? I have almost 2 months more to babysit grands, it had been a blessing and has cemented many in our family to love each other and see each other through difficulties as family and not let religious differences tear us apart.And an 18 month old and 3 other young ones will keep you humble.
          Take care
          PS: Also on your line of reasoning Rev: 3:20,21 is definitely talking to the Church down thru the ages and they are offer a place on the throne. I will look with interest for Jan’s response.

          • QNA...

            Hi Jacqueline, I am back home now. My father is stable but unfortunately he will never get better. I was glad to be able to visit and also be able to help my mom, who even at 89 years of age, still thinks she is able to do it all, lol. Also, giving my brother a breather was important. He is the primary caregiver to them both despite the fact that he is paralyzed from a misdiagnosed spinal injury. Thank you for asking.

            Whenever I come on here I scan comments, but for the most I try to focus only on the one comment I am curious about. However this time, I have the feeling that at one point I will also have to retreat from my conversation with Jan. It’s funny that you say you are following mine and his conversation because today I read yours and Daz’s and am waiting to hear his response to you too. lol I believe we touched on that subject before and I have to agree with his view on it. I also see that there is an interesting dialog going on with Barry Ward. I of course see his points and am interested to read more when and if I get the chance.

            I agree that Rev 3 seems to be talking about the ones who are being called to join Jesus but only if they are faithful to the end.

            While you have been babysitting your grandchildren, now for a while, I have not been babysitting at all. 🙁 I think it’s a blessing to be around them and it’s nice to hear that it is going so well. I miss mine!

            That conversation with qna was a little awkward but yes, it did work out in the end. 🙂 I appreciate coming on here every now and again while still continuing with my studies, using only the bible. That was something we decided based on my many questions.

            Until the next time, take care.

            • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

              Wow, QNA, to have your parents both alive is a blessing. Longevity in your family means you better take care of your body because you live long.
              Jan is in another country yet have some of the same concerns, I found that interesting. He has been on our site for a long time. We are all in this together and there is a lot more people talking this out about God. It is a good thing.
              Glad you are using the bible to study, that is always a good thing. I know it is sharpening your conductor. I used to have studies like yours with bible only and it benefited us both.
              Going home this weekend for 2 days.looking forward to getting back to my lifestyle. I am normally a loner, miss that. Lol Take care of yourself. Agape

              • QNA...

                I find what he says to be different , which is why I am curious about what his point of view is. As long as it is bible based, I think it’s good sharing and trying to understand how and why people believe what they believe. Whether I end up accepting it or not, it helps me to open my mind. In the end though, I trust that the scriptures will guide me to it’s true interpretation through constant prayer.
                Alone time is good for the soul, lol. Hope you get your much needed peace and relaxation while at home.

                • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                  QNA going to his website will help to understand about agriculture methods that they present at conventions. I love just being able to meet, hear and discuss others views without being labeled an apostate. Jan had mentioned to talk to him is easier by email.

            • Peter K. (admin)

              QNA – I find that there tend to be two types of conversations on our website.

              1) All parties honestly consider what the other is saying and even if they can’t agree, there is some level of respect for the scriptural evidence presented.

              2) One or more parties come with an inflexible point of view. Whatever evidence the other party provides is of no interest or consequence. This is NOT a two-way converstation.

              I much prefer #1.

    • Jan Hoekstra

      When you think that Jesus means that the discreet slave are a class than it is your conclusion. Jesus mention was in a parable or illustration.Am only saying that the today claimed The Faithfull and Discreet class of 8 people of the WTS are a claim of false. There are no any anointed and heaven going people on earth, and never come even. Without farming issues the earthly christians are lost. Noah was at his time the key farmer.

  • Jan Hoekstra

    Do you believe the faitful and discreet slave “class”in Math 24 : 45-47 is :
    * The governing body ? NO
    * All änointed JWs”? NO
    * All “anointed christians”, even if not JWs? NO
    * C.T. Russel ? NO

    Jesus not mention any “governing body”so even not mention a “class”. The illustration(parable) took place by his return inspection, that is never done till today.

  • sherry

    Hi Jan

    What is your group where you all plan on living on earth. Never heard of them.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Sherry if Jan doesn’t answer by tomorrow, I will get in touch with her and let her know she has two commenters asking her questions.
      You will find her group to be quite different. I have visited another members website. I will try to get in touch. She is not in the U S A.

      PS: Sherry I went on and sent the request for Jan to come back on. She is not a Bible Student from the friends site but you might find her group informative. Hopefully you and she will converse on this site so we can learn more about them also. Thank you.

  • baidoo

    they are liars claiming reps of God

    • jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Baidoo, welcome, would you tell us your story please? Or just jump in and comment my brother. How did you find the site? How long were you a witness?

  • Rita

    I am one of those jw’s who has woken up. I realised last July that it wasn’t “the truth”. I just discovered your website today. I’m finding it very informative. It’s really good. I enjoyed the explanation on celebrations like Christmas. It made perfect sense. What I always thought. Wish the rest of my family would wake up. Wish I realised sooner. It would’ve been easier on my children.

    • Daz

      Hi Rita, nice to meet you! The main thing is that you have woken up to the deceptions that are being taught, the veil has been lifted from your eyes & you have allowed yourself to see!
      Once you truly accept this then things fall into place, I would encourage you now to take time out & study freely, without the thoughts or influences of the Watchtower doctrine & perceptions, the scriptures will open up to you like never before, keep knocking, keep seeking, keep asking. Pray to your Father in heaven for understanding.

      Warm & loving regards,
      Daz

    • jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Rita hello and welcome to the site. We are here to help you. Perhaps you could tellu s of your journey. Ask questions or just comment on any of the articles. I awaken after 62 years held captive and my children are dealing With this also. We are in the meeting right now, but we will see your comments and respond. We will look for your story only if you are ready to tell it. In Christian Love, Jacqueline.

    • Bret (AKA Brettstone)

      Rita..
      Im an ex-witness 20yrs. Look closely at the articles about the “Ransom for all”. Once you find the true teaching about the Ransom that Russell taught you will really be set free. The JW’s teach a ransom that contradicts what the Watchtower taught in the beginning. I hope all goes well with you and may Jehovah bless you as your eyes are open to the true freedom in christ

  • The Problem is not the Watchtower organisation which started from the founder C.T. Russel. The problem is the Governing Body.They should drop down.
    They cannot claim : 01) The faithfully slave as 8-12 persons 02)They are anointed.
    Between 33-100/120 C.E. all 144.000 was taken in the covenant.In that time properly more than 1 million Christians took the symbols.The earthly class was always there(John 10:16). Am surprised why everybody claim a heaven hope? So when we are The earthly Christians with a earthly hope, how can the Governing Body claim “heaven hope”? Am not speaking about all other groups who claim even heaven hope.No any other Group have ever shown me a more clear picture. We have only a earthly hope, nothing else can be !

    • QNA ...

      Why do you think that the 144,000 were all chosen by the year 120 CE? What scriptures do you base it on? I’m just curious.

      • Jan Hoekstra

        Our email is peoplefp@gmail.com We come to this conclusion after we understood this based on Daniel 12:4,9 and Mathew 11:25. No doubt that no any religion can claim heaven hope. It cleans all kind worthless discussions

        • QNA ...

          So Jan, what you are saying is that God revealed it to the early Christians only, the ones who walked with Jesus. In turn, these apostles brought in the remainder of the disciples with the heavenly hope, and that was enough to fill that number of 144,000 by 120 CE. Everyone else since then are only of the early class. Is that correct?

          • QNA ...

            Jan, I just read your response to Peter. I think it answered what I said in my response back to you just now. If not, feel free to correct or add to it.

          • Jan Hoekstra

            Yes you say it

            • QNA...

              Jan, how do you explain Rev 7: 1-3 which speaks of the time of the end? Who is it then that are being sealed? It can’t be those who live on the earth because those ones, I believe, can’t be that numbered. Rev 7:9
              Do you also believe, as the bible student do, that all will be given a chance during the 1000 year reign? Not just those from the memorial tomb, whom will be resurrected, but even all who will see the tribulation.
              I ask because I saw your page and your perspective on what the scriptures say is completely different from any I’ve ever seen before.

              • Can i ask you why somebody claim to have a heaven anointed hope? When our aim is only earth, why we should be priest and Kings in heaven to be part of the Government to reign later over 1000 years earthly living for me? Armegedon come to protect the righteous and meek people on earth, a few only. Math 7:14. Logical?

                • Bret

                  Jan
                  If you read Revelation 16 you will notice all who are gathered to Armegeddon or the war of the great day Almighty

                  Re 16:14 They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and they perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.
                  Re 16:16 And they gathered them together into the place which is called in Hebrew Har-magedon.

                  Notice next in Revelation 19 who goes into second death i.e. Lake of Fire

                  Re 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat upon the horse, and against his army.
                  Re 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought the signs in his sight, wherewith he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast and them that worshipped his image: they two were cast alive into the lake of fire that burneth with brimstone:
                  Re 19:21 and the rest were killed with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, even the sword which came forth out of his mouth: and all the birds were filled with their flesh.

                  Notice only the Wild Beast and False Prophet were cast into lake of fire, while the rest i.e. Kings and their military were killed of by the long sword.
                  Revelation 20 confirms this.

                  Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the “beast and the false prophet”; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

                  So only the beast and false prophet are cast into lake of fire which second death these are evil systems not humans. The kings and military are under sin and Adamic death and they do not come under the judgement of second death until after the Judgment Day which is 1,000 yrs long.

                  The scriptures say all men will be “saved” and that is saved from sin and death in Adam by means of a resurrection, to be put on trial for life:

                  American Standard Version 1Ti 2:4-6 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times;

                  Ro 5:18 So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life

                • QNA...

                  I believe that the thought behind the belief that there are still anointed on the earth, (those who will rule with Jesus in heaven) is because that number is not yet sealed. I understand that you believe that it was, since the year 120, but again Rev 7:3 to me doesn’t seem to indicate that. Otherwise, why is it saying to hold back until that number is sealed? Isn’t Revelations written for the time of the end?

                  Also, with all due respect, the arrangement to have kings and priest taken from amongst mankind to rule with Jesus comes from the creator of this universe, Jehovah God. The fact that you say or question, why should we want to be kings and priest just to come back during the 1000 years as part of that government to reign over mankind when earth is where we belong in the first place, is crossing over a line you have no authority going over. It is by God’s word that we know that there will be 144,000 men and women who will be called to join his son Jesus, as kings and priests. You believe that number has already been sealed, if you are correct then yes, all we would have is the earthly hope, but can you prove your statement with complete accuracy? Not that I believe or am thinking of a heavenly hope for myself, but the bible doesn’t seem to align with what you’re saying. At least not to me.

                  Yes, Armegeddon will protect the righteous and the meek. Is Matt 7:14 logical when it says that narrow is the gate and cramp is the road leading off into life and few are the ones finding it…. absolutely. I believe it is clear that not all will be on that road.

                  I don’t want to be presumptuous but if you don’t mind, could you please explain why farming is vital? Maybe I’m misunderstanding your point….

        • Chuck (Bible Student)

          Jan,
          I respect highly what you are trying to do for the earthly kingdom. Your dedication to our Father is obvious and wonderful. I do have a question/comment on your statement:
          ” It cleans all kind worthless discussions ”
          It would seem to me that this is the same attitude the nominal “christians” use in their beliefs. Like, “the matter is settled and we do not need to waste time talking about it”. I personally find this very arrogant on their behalf. It is as if they do not want to hear any truth other than their own and really can’t provide an honest discussion so they use this “go to” answer. They will pick out a few verses to prove their point and refuse to acknowledge any other verses that seem to contradict their interpretation.
          Sincerely,
          In Christ,
          Chuck

          • Thanks for the reply.It seems that no one come with facts and logical conclusions. For example in the WT Study of 15 March 2015 you find the defend of the Governing Body in 4 studies.The changings, claims…..that is for me a worthless discussion because they claim something what is not there……they are responsibility and not the ordinary christian who daily struggle. Somebody need to Stand Up, not by stories but with faith to help others who love God and true. Jesus is our leader, so we should ask him to lead us and not the claims of the board of directors who show a drifting ship.Millions of JWs are in cliff hanging,the same i was, but i need to help now others

            • Chuck (Bible Student)

              Jan,
              Thank you for the response. I can completely understand where you are coming from. I personally have never been a Jehovahs Witness and do not totally understand their worship of the governing body. From what I do know, I pray for them. This Governing Body concept is, in my opinion, VERY wrong.
              I guess what I meant in my previous comment was that, as honest truth seeking followers of Christ, we should be open to discussion and not write off anyones opinion. When I was in the nominal church I was told many times that the questions I had were settled and there was no reason for any discussion. That frustrated me. Why did one church believe different than the other? It was not to be discussed and I was told just to ignore the differences because we were all Christians! Besides, we know we were right and not the other denomination!
              I truly love to listen to discussions of Scripture that come at it from different points of view. I can then afterwards, through further study, come to a conclusion. I find this method to be the standard amongst the true Bible Students.
              In Christ,
              Chuck

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Jan Hoekstra,

      Thanks for commenting on our website. What evidence do you have that 144,000 (the bride of Christ) was complete by 120 C.E.? Are you saying the marriage of the Lamb and His wife (Jesus and the 144,000) took place nearly 2,000 years ago? I am really confused as to what you mean.

      The Bible clearly speaks about a heavenly hope for the Holy Spirit Anointed.

      2 Corinthians 5:1-2 (NWT) “1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. 2 For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven,”

      1 Corinthians 15:42-45 So also is the resurrection of the dead… It is sown a natural body [death]; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [Jesus] was made a quickening spirit. (KJV)

      Now do you believe Jesus is a SPIRIT being? If so, than the scriptures below indicate we will be like him (a spirit being).

      John 14:2-3 (NWT) “2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for YOU, I am coming again and will receive YOU home to myself, that where I am YOU also may be.”

      1 John 3:2 (NKJV) “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.”

      • Jan Hoekstra

        Why you are confused? Acts 3 : 42 “teaching of the apostles”..
        People never have any heaven hope even when they was anointed in the past by God.The only period that the master, Jesus of Nazareth,promises his close relatives a heaven life, was at his life and after his dead. One generation.The finishing was around the dead of the last Apostle. More than 1 million Christians ever baptized in that period.The 144.000 was taken away and the covenant was closed after.All your Bible text has to do of the first century situation.From the second century(properly after 120CE)nobody are with “Holy Spirit Anointed”, so even not Charles Taze Russel, he gone back to the soil.The only Christian Class today is the Earthly Class, our hope.Logical for you?

        • Peter K. (admin)

          Jan Hoekstra – I still do not understand why you feel the door to the heavenly call closed after 120 C.E. Nor do I know how you arrived at a million baptized in the first century. However, hypothetically if even 100 million had been baptized over the past 2,000 years, Jehovah would have foreseen and selected only 144,000 whose characters were developed (Romans 12:1-2) to a point where they could join with Jesus in being earth’s future judges, priests and kings. If the heavenly call ended in 120 C.E. then the New Testament would have been primarily applicable to the Saints of that period and not for the rest of us during the past 1,900 years, except to prepare us to be better citizens of the future earthly kingdom. The New Testament only hold’s out the ONE hope of our calling (Ephesians 4:4 ), a heavenly hope (click here).

          You said, “the covenant was closed after” 120 C.E. The Bible teaches that “drinking the cup” of the “New Covenant” means being part of the joint sacrifice with Jesus that ratifies that covenant. The New Covenant cannot be ratified and made with the Israel and then mankind until every last member of the 144,000 has been resurrected into the Bride of Christ and the marriage complete. Had the 144,000 been complete at 120 C.E., after that point the New Covenant would have been ratified and could be made with Natural Israel. However, this was too early as their double of disfavor (1845 years to 1878 C.E.) was not complete. Find out more bout how the 144,000 are joint sacrifices with Jesus in ratifying the New Covenant by clicking here.

          Jan – Thanks for being willing to have a discussion. We may not be able to agree with each other, however at least here we both have an opportunity to present the scriptural reason for our hope.

          • Jan Hoekstra

            Thanks so far. No doubt that you are not agreed now. It cost myself over years time to digger out all lies and falsehood from people and religions.Try to see the logical situation. When Jesus took his 144.000 anointed people to heaven from 33-120 CE. Why the rest should go to heaven? based on what ? Further Jesus choose first from the Jewish Christians,later from the other nations.After around 120 CE the True and Pure teaching was gone. All key players was killed or died.In the period of 120 CE around 1 million Christians where baptized. The population was around the 180.000.000 in the Roman Empire influence where was preached everywhere in one generation. We want to established a new group or remove the “governing body”from the WTS and reform completely this organisation from the founder C.T. Russel.When there are no any heaven hope claims more we can concentrate us on the living at earth.To make organic farms for our God. The founder may have many wrong but he started in his good willing to digger out the Bible. In his time he was extremely brave.So we should look to C.T. Russel with respect.When we can find more persons like Caleb and Joshua, we can enter our promising land of Milk and Honey.Hope to gave you a clear picture

  • sherry

    The first president was not Russell but Connelly. Also the Bible says , I, Jehovah, search the mind, I try the heart, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings. Jeremiah 17:10. Some Bibles say test instead of try. A form of examination for determining a persons knowledge of achievements. View it as, God having the ability to read everyone’s hard drive each day after waking up and then going to bed. No doubt Jehovah God’s people everywhere desire for all to attain salvation, and forgive everyone of their wrongs done to them. Would love to see all people who worship Jehovah God get saved. Is that not what you want? Would it not be nice if it said, follow the slave and be saved? So we would not have a man who did not claim to be, verses a group who claim to be confusion. But both groups claim belief in Jehovah God, so say good things and be forgiving. Pray, preach, study, so that in the day of salvation you may stand. Be happy. How many Christians were called Justus?

    • Daz

      Hi Sherry, even Satan believes in Jehovah God but he does not do good or make him righteous does it. Jesus warns us of those performing great works, false prophets, false teachers that will mislead us, just because someone claims they believe in Jehovah God does not make them a good person & does not mean that they worship Jehovah & follow Jesus’ examples.
      You will know them by their fruits….
      James 2:19, “You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror.”

      John 8:41-44, “You are doing the works of your own father.” “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.” Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.”

      Matthew 7:16 & 7:20 “You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”
      “Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.”

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      Hi Sherry thank you for commenting and welcome. I agree that all men will have that opportunity of worshiping Jehovah in spirit and truth.
      During the thousnd years not only Jehovah witnesses or Bible Students but all that survive the great tribulation and armageddon will get that chance. Everyone that has evere lived has been ransomed and hhave the opportunity to be saved. By the end of the Millennium we will have all forgiven each other along with the rest of mankind and attain to everlasting life.
      Our Memorial celebratin is tomorrow the 2nd of April, my family will observe the Memorial on the 3rd and it is this that unites us, Christ. I have relatives all over the United States and it brings joy that they this year can accept lover of Christ who are no longer within their organization. I think that is progress, our family is rising above judging and leaving it in the hands of Christ. As we consider tomorrow and Friday what he has done hopefully we will learn to love those that love Jesus to the glory of Jehovah God. Take Care

      • Personally never believed that somebody can claim “anointed”. It seems so poor because Jesus took his 144.000 in a covenant between 33- <120 CE. After this sealed Apostolic Era nobody can enter more the heaven.Even when i was baptized as JW i not see any future for the today Governing Body claims.There are only two options : Remove them and change the organisation in an earthly organisation of Christians who accepted The King Jesus of Nazareth.Second,to start a new organisation with a few people who believe in the "last farming"with earthly hope Christians.Any other options is "zero"here.The name "True Religion"we should drop to, we can only promote true worship to Jehovah God.Word "Religion" is always mankind, so false.Who can understand this ?

  • Daz

    Hi everyone, I hope you are all well & good . . . .
    How can the Watchtower’s governing body be the Faithful & Discreet Slave? It was not too long ago that they announced that actually Christ had not given over His belongings to them in 1918 as previously claimed & believed for many years but in fact this is now said to be a future event! This was aone of the main things I questioned! So this being the case then they really do not have the authority or right to be leading & directing Christ’s followers, surely this can only take place once Christ hands over His belongings?? Since He clearly has not handed them over to the governing body then, JW’s should be looking solely to Christ’s direction within the scriptures & seek out the TRUE Faithful & Discreet Slave.
    They are teaching untruths & leading many away from the REAL TRUTH!
    More & more JW’s seem to waking up to this deception, let’s pray that alot more awaken & will see through the veil the Watchtower has cloaked them in.

    Warm & loving regards,
    Daz

    • Daz

      Just to add, as I said in my original post, the Watchtower claimed that Christ’s belongs were handed over to the FDS in I 1919 (I think I was mistaken & quoted it was 1918), anyway but then it was announced that the GB is now the FDS & that this event is now to be a future event, but back in 1919 the Watchtower did not have a “governing body” as such, this formation of the governing body didn’t establish as a group of men until years later. Since incorporation in 1884, the Watchtower Society was led by a President and board of directors. The first three Presidents, Russell, followed by Rutherford and Knorr, had complete control over doctrine. It was not until 1976 that this power was shifted from a single individual to a group, referred to as the Governing Body.

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