“. . . the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night . . . But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.” 1 Thess. 5:2-4
T
o many Christians, the second coming of Christ is an earth shattering event. If so, how do we explain the above text describing his return “as a thief in the night?” We suggest that the second
presence of Christ is not a cataclysmic event, but a period of time during which he accomplishes the preparation of the world for his Messianic Kingdom.
The text above indicates that the true Christian would be alert and searching for evidence of Christ’s return. When his disciples asked Jesus, “…what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world,” he did not leave them clueless, but proceeded to list many evidences which would be indications of this time. Matt. 24:3
Sorry my Second Advent Brothers, you missed the party by close to two thousand years. The Great Tribulation already happened, (Matthew 24:21-22) . . .for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 . . . What don’t people understand “no will occur again”. There is no Masonic Russell parallism. JESUS WAS NOT LYING. There can’t be a second “never has and never will event”. The Good News was preached in the entire inhabited. The the horseman of the Apocolypse rode on Jeruselem. 6,000,000 people were thrown of over the walls, the Romans did enter the Holy Place, it did happen in the Generation of those who Jesus spoke to, there were famines in Jeruselem, wars, which killed most of the inhabitants, disease as when malnurished people come incontact with the rotting dead. Jesus when gave up his life, had earned his position and all titles, he began ruling
“(Ephesians 1:20-21) . . .with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come.” There are no more names or Titles for him to have. When he recieved the Title as King – He was King in 33CE! People who die with Long Sword at the End do not get the second death, only the Korah, Cain and Balak types. Sociopaths like the Governing Body, who meet all the tests of Pharisaic Behaivor (as well as sociopathic) get the Korah judgement. The prophecies of Daniel where fullfilled in the first century. Daniel chapter 11 fits history, exactly. Read Mat 24, Revelation, Dan 11, test and see if it fits the first Century – It all works.
Brooks – Party on Dude! There is a double application. The Luke account focuses on the trouble on the nominal Jewish nation, at the end of the Jewish age. We call that the the “Jewish Harvest,” ending in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. The Matthew and Mark accounts focus on what the Jewish Harvest trouble pictured, namely the “Gospel Harvest” and the destruction of the Nominal Church Systems and earthly Governments. The expression “will not occur again” is from Matt 24:21 and is associated with great trouble at Jesus 2nd Presence.
Notice that Jesus answers to the disciples three questions, including “what will be the sign of your presence?” (Matt 24:3) continues into Matt 25 where he discusses the parables of the virgins, talents and the sheep & goats, all clearly relating to Jesus 2nd presence.
Luke 12 & 17 have references to Jesus second presence that are picked up in Matt 24 (i.e. the wise servant, those on the house top, in the fields, the days of Noah, etc. This supports that Matt 24 is speaking of Jesus 2nd Presence. Are you taking the position that there is nothing anywhere in Matt 24 that has any relation to Jesus 2nd Presence?
To a certain extent it can be said of all gospels, but Matthews is the most corrupted of the four. Thanks for the info on the DVD.
Bob, I would say the same is true for the Gospel of Mark as well.
Anyway, the documentary is interesting. There are some points where it lags because of the story that they follow and some of the side tangents they take, but it is enjoyable.
I found this on netflix under documentaries. “Eye witness to Jesus” I am going to look at it. Thanks Bob. I just saw this looking for an article about the cross.
Sorry, Jeff, I forgot to post my name on the reply.
Jeff – thanks for the info. I haven’t read the book, but I’ll rent the DVD. The fragments in question, the Magdalen Papyrus, were bought in a market in Egypt in early 1900 and originally dated about 300 CE. After further analysis they were dated around 200 CE. In 1994 Dr. Thiede, a German archeologist, re-dated them to about 60 CE, but there is considerable doubt regarding this date, that’s the subject of the book/DVD you mentioned. In any case, there is no denying that the gospel of Matthew has many discrepancies and spurious texts.
If Mark’s gospel came from Peter, and Peter was one of the four apostles to privately talk to Jesus regarding this subject, then it would be logical to assume that Mark’s account, in this case, is the most accurate. Mark doesn’t relate that the apostles asked about the end of the age, only when the destruction of Jerusalem would take place. I personally agree with many bible scholars that think Matthew was written in Hebrew and translated into Greek much later and was also the first gospel to be written. I think that in the translation is where the discrepancies occur. Different words and phrases may have been added to support the new apostate ideas of the times. That may be why his account is different than Luke or Mark. You are correct in that Matthew did not follow chronological order, that’s why his version of the Olivette discourse has much of Luke chapter 17.
Thanks Bob…I’m off on my way to work, but wanted to make a comment that scrapps of papyrus have been found of Matthew’s Gospel in Greek which to the first century. This puts it into the lifetime of John and many others who would have been firsthand witnesses to Jesus and his miracles.
A book has been written on this and a documentary has been made by TLC called “Eyewitness to Jesus” by Matthew D’Ancona.
Jeff,
No I haven’t been following your discussion on “Where is the Great Crowd” with Max. My only point in bringing up Acts 1:6 was to show that the apostles had not understood all that Jesus had been telling them. They still thought he would restore Israel at that time. That’s why they needed the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to explain everything to them. Acts chapter 2 shows that after the Holy Spirit came to them they understood the prophecies of Joel and the Psalms. The main point is the question the apostles asked at Mat 24:3. If they didn’t understand that Jesus was leaving them, why did they ask when he would return? A related issue is; why is Matthew’s gospel the only one that has that question?
This is quick. I’ve got to head to bed.
There are several stories recorded just a little differently between the Gospels. I recently did a study on Jesus’ walk to Gethsemene and some of the differences between Gospel accounts. We know that Matthew and John were first hand accounts. John’s was written latter in life, Mark’s version came from Peter, and Luke had compiled Gospel (and Acts) from multiple sources. Each Gospel is written from a slightly different perspective. John tends towards the philosophical side, and Matthew liked to group stories together that were similar instead of aiming towards a completely chronological approach.
I’m dying to hear your answer.
Bob,
Thank you for reminding us about the Apostles first question to Jesus in Acts, “Will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
Jesus did not correct them by saying, “On dear Apostles, you do not understand. You are a Spiritual Israel and the natural Israel will not be restored.”
Jesus was response was an affirmative, “It is not for you to know the times and seasons” . . . .
Have you been reading the discussions I have been having with Max on some of these points?
Hello John S. – Since the conquest of Israel by Babylon, Israel was a conquered nation. During the time of Jesus the Jews were expecting the Messiah to come and deliver them from the Roman rule. That was also the expectation of Jesus disciples (Luke 24:21). They did not understand the prophecies regarding Jesus heavenly kingdom, they thought it would be an earthly kingdom. Otherwise why would Jesus tell them, “ 25 He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken!” (Luke 24:25). Obviously they had failed to understand the prophecies of Daniel and of the Psalms, etc… Acts 1:6 relates the question asked by the disciples, “6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”” Even at this late date, after Jesus had been resurrected, the disciples could not comprehend that Jesus kingdom was not of this world. The angels had to finally tell the disciples that Jesus would return in the same manner as they saw him go. (Acts 1: 9-11) Not until after Pentecost did they realize what he had been telling them. These scriptures are the basis of my point, if Jesus disciples did not understand that he would leave and not restore Israel to its former glory, then why would they ask him when he was to return. Why did Mark and Luke not record the same account as Matthew? Only four apostles asked Jesus privately to explain what he had told them regarding the destruction of Jerusalem. Yet we have two different accounts of the same instance by three different writers.
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