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Has the Heavenly Call Ended? Or is it Still Wide Open? Jan 14 WEBCAST

You can now view this webcast by clicking here:

Does the Bible teach that you should be pursuing a earthly hope today, to be a part of the Great Crowd on earth?  Or does it teach that the Christian should be pursuing a heavenly hope, to be a part of the bride of Christ?   On January 14, we recorded our webcast.  Former JW and Bible Student elder David Stein interviewed a panel of Bible students (some Ex-JWs) to investigate and discuss this topic.  They answered the questions– What does the Bible teach about the Little Flock, the Great Crowd, the Other Sheep and the Heavenly Call?  The Webcast was on January 14, 2011 at 7:00 p.m. CST.

53 comments to Has the Heavenly Call Ended? Or is it Still Wide Open? Jan 14 WEBCAST

  • ian j howat

    i am near london in UK..

  • ian j howat

    im still unclear .the 12 tribes mentioned are different in names to the origional 12 .also im not clear on how they are out of the 12 tribes ifthey are gentiles that make up the 144000 .just toconfuse the issue even more i believe that pastorrussel taught that thejews would not have to become christians ie take advantage of ransom because theyare allready in a covenant with God..

    • ZionsHerald

      It’s very interesting because Pastor Russell taught that in order to take advantage of the Ransom you just need to be born. It didn’t matter what your spiritual condition was, or is, every man woman and child who has born will have an opportunity in the Millennium. That would of course include the Jews.

      It was Rutherford that changed this concept in the 1920s-1930s. He changed the teaching of the WT society stating that if you were not a Jehovah’s Witness you would die in Armageddon with no chance of a resurrection.

      • Chris Johns

        Zion’s Herald,
        Correct. It was in the Oct 15, 1923 WT that the article “The Parable of the Sheep and Goats” that Rutherford shifted the parable from Millenial Age to Gospel Age. So this would mean that many living today would be judged as goats and be everlastingly cut off before the millennium or a further chance. In was in the 1930’s book “Salvation” that Rutherford said that the ransom didn’t apply to Adam. I’ve studied both of these in depth and would love to provide a link to these.

      • just Stay Sweet and Good

        It never made sense to me that people who were not JW’s would die at armagedon because the scripture says “seek meekness and seek mildness, it may be you will be hid…” I knew many people in this catagory that were not JW’s. So……I cornered a Circuit Servant, who had just given a talk about this and asked him point blank: “So you are saying that purity of doctrine is NOT the criteria for survival but the Christian Personality is…Is this correct?” and he said yes. Well this just threw my inner light back to the ransom for ALL. That the only judgement PERHAPS at armagedon is a judgement of violation of the rainbow covenant and the sanctity of life issues. That I could live with. As far as Adam was concerned, JW’s always said: “Adam doesn’t deserve a resurection” well, that applies to ALL of Adams brats. We do not deserve anything, it is ALL grace aka underserved kindness that is extended to those who are lost and thats ALL of us. It’s grace, grace and more grace and it surely amazing

        • ian j howat

          yes totaly agree .i also had a though about the remark in revelation re the 144000 they being virgins .if they were all jewish they would be ina spiritual sense as they were in true worship before becoming christians so were neveradulterated with false doctrine. but that would not fit inwith the explanation that we already agreed on.its a way of explaining though…i get the comments about Rutherfords teaching .i have some of his books. in the harp it seems to make sense.but later on he changes the basic teachings ..thanks for reply..do you have any comment or opinio on Robert kings on u tube.his ideas i find very confusing.seems he supports jws. but not the GB..

          • ian j howat

            to add i find typing commentsdificult as this site is so small not mobile friendly..

          • Chris Johns


            Thanks for your response. I’ve heard the the twelve tribes are Jews. This doesn’t seem right. I heard many times that the twelve tribes names each have a meaning. For example after Judah was born it was stated “Now I will praise Jehovah” (Genesis 29:35) . When Reuben was bored it was stated “Surely Jehovah has looked upon my affliction.” (Gen 29:32). And so on. If you take each of the names meanings in the order they are given in Revelation you get

            “ Now I will praise Jehovah for he has looked on me and granted good fortune. I am happy because of my wrestling, God is making me to forget. God hears me and is joined to me. He has purchased me a dwelling and will add to me, the Son of His right hand.”

            Perfect depiction of Jesus and his bride.

    • just Stay Sweet and Good

      If you look at the end of Ezekiel you will notice that all of the 12 tribes are back in their original order. Brother Russell made the comment that this shows that satan can never permanently thwart Jehovah God’s original purpose to have these twelve be the leaders of the earthly phase of the kingdom as soon as their own redemption and cleansing is complete. As for the Revelation roll call, it only mentions those tribes that remained relatively loyal and we not totally corrupted, plus Joseph’s two sons got the double portion of the firstborn because Joseph was especially faithful. This obviously is a spiritual roll call of the congregation of the first born, who will join their messiah in the heavenly realm to oversee the millennium from that special vantage point.

  • ian j howat

    thanks for reply yes you have reminded me of what i read in divine plan of the ages .i have the book kindly sent for one dollar from bible students in USA .it does make a lot of sense..so basicaly im right in my assumpsion that all christians are spirit born ..heavenly life subject of course to the lords acceptance ..the ranso m is then available to all..i am getting used to the new application of new testament to all christians not just 144000 as we were taught .being denied a relatiinship with jesus has been my problem for years

  • ian j howat

    i believe that there are true christians in many church groups and some who do not belong to any church group..after much thought it makes no sense to me that over 2000 years there have been only 144000 christians..and there is no indication in the new testament that there are two classes of christians. since i woke up from WT mind control i have becone so close to jesus that i feel totaly different to how i felt in 50 years as a jw ..we were never alowed to have a relationship with jesus..many jws waking up feel the same.there is no way christians can be limited to only 144000 .in the book of acts we are told tgat 3000 were added in just one day! so over 2000 years it must equate to millions.

    • ZionsHerald

      Thank you Ian for a very open and honest perspective of the Jehovah’s Witness interpretation that only 144,000 individuals being given a heavenly reward. I completely agree with you that there will be more than 144,000 with a heavenly reward.

      Thankfully there are many Scriptures which Illustrate that this reward is in store for an uncountable group of people.

      Revelation 19 speaks of a great crowd in heaven. Rev. 19:1 specifically states that this group is in heaven itself. This is a group that is invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb but is not the bride herself. They sing praises regarding the Father who reigns and the bride who made herself ready.

      Revelation 19:6-7
      6 Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.
      The marriage of the Lamb
      7 “Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.”

      While Scripture defines more than 144,000 with a heavenly reward, as can be seen, not all who receive that reward will be the Bride of Christ.

      The Bride of Christ are the ones who will reign with Christ over the masses of mankind and teaching them righteousness when God’s judgments will be in the earth.

      Revelation 20:4-5
      4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

      “For when the earth experiences Your judgments The inhabitants of the world learn righteousness.” Isaiah 26:9

    • There are WT glitches you can find from the Bible text. For example, in Revelation 7 the “144000” are “out of” the 12 tribes. The GB error-masters do not fix the glitch, that in their teaching the 144,000 are spiritual Israel. The “12 tribes” would have to be included for the 144,000 are “out of” that greater “nation”.

      But the GB are experts at avoiding glitches by simply ignoring them and teaching stumbling error as policy instead. They call it “doctrinal unity” but it is actually doctrinal disintegration.

  • kevin davis

    I think God is in control and his son today controls who has puts on love and follow the lamb that has learned how to have that love in there lives they are not greedy or ever thing about self and they never lie or try to mislead people., As the world does., That;s who makes the first cut and they do not believe false religion things they believe.,bible truth they are not know it all people as some of the world try to be they do there best to help people learn bible truth;s The calling may still be today.,They choose God,. and he chooses them,. thru Christ.,

  • Terry

    much appreciated.

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