Polls

Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.

Articles & Posts

“WAR OF WORDS” – Response to Nov 15 Watchtower Article, Study Version

Religion is an extremely sensitive issue for many people — nations go to war over religious differences.  Its no surprise that  families do, too.  In a careless disregard for life the following article in addition to others have been printed, read and studied by J..Witnesses around the world.

The  November 15, 2011 Study version of the Watchtower, has this to say in an  article praising Jehu’s actions against the family of Ahab.  “The prophet  Elisha sent one of the sons of the prophets to anoint Jehu as king and to  instruct him to kill every male of the apostate house of Ahab.—2 Ki. 8:28;  9:1-10.” “Though the thought of violence is unpleasant, we should  realize that in those days, Jehovah used his servants to carry out his  judgments…. Today, no servant of Jehovah uses physical force against opponents  of pure worship. “Vengeance is mine,” God says. (Heb.10:30) But to rid the  congregation of potentially corrupting influences, Christian elders may have to  act with courage similar to that of Jehu. (1 Cor. 5:9-13) And all members of  the congregation need to be determined to avoid the company of disfellowshipped  individuals.— 2 John 9-11.” “Jehu announced that he intended to hold  “a great sacrifice” for Baal. (2 Ki. 10:18, 19) “This is a clever play on words  on the part of Jehu,” says one scholar.While the term employed here “generally  means ‘sacrifice,’ it is also used of the ‘slaughter’ of apostates.” “It  is true that Jehu spilled much blood. Yet, the Scriptures present him as a  courageous man… …..

This instance can’t be used to justify asking elders “to act with courage similar to Jehu” ‘the slaughter’ of apostates. A careful reading of the account shows these were worshipers of the false god Baal, brought in by marriage to Jezebel. Persons leaving the JW organization  have not left off worshipping Jehovah and going after another god. Most have found Jesus in the process, however, since he has mostly been replaced by the GB. Unless these are Baal worshippers and they are bringing such in the cong. the elders have no right “to act with courage similar to Jehu” ‘the slaughter’ of apostates. Even so, the order must be given by Jehovah or Jesus. If, “Today, no servant of Jehovah uses physical force”, why suggest it with buzz words fo acting like Jehu in ridding the cong. There are other scriptures that actually deal with this in the Greek scriptures.  What were they thinking? I sincerely hope no elders follow this advice and lay hand or finger on God’s people.

Quite a few of Jehovah Witnesses are consumed by “unquiet mind” and  the “performance anxiety” that comes with constantly being pushed to “earn” salvation by works, rather than accept the Ransom Sacrifice of  Jesus. The governing body teaches that if you are alive at armageddon but not in  the organization of Jehovah witnesses you will perish eternally.  So as lovers  of people,  witnesses with vigor try to preach to as many as possible, to convert the world now if possible for  salvation. The Bible teaches world conversion is in Millenium, however. See, Isa. 11:9

It  is this fear of a relative dying that causes the anxiety. It used to be the  society said this will bring them back if you shun but as noted above they are  getting sinister and suggesting to somehow do more to rid oneself of persons  that are DF’d. They have extended this to persons that just leave of their own  accord by labeling them “apostates”.

You  would think they would be like other religions and just let people go without trying to disrupt their families and suggesting “elders act similar to Jehu in the ‘slaughter’ of apostates”. What have they got to fear from the members  of their organization hearing why a family member left? Most of the time it is the  JW that trys to get the freed one to come back, not the other way around. Book  Study groups that were once said to be the place we would meet in case of  persecution, has now been brought under controll inside of the kingdom hall. At  least there, you could talk and get comfort, but elders were allowing to much  talk, so they are controlled now. Brains are beginning to atrophy from not  being used, so many websites  have come  into existence and are doing much good to awaken the brain to think. This is a new and helpful site: http://www.jwstruggle.com/ along with many others.

Websites  that exist fall into a number of categories: Those that want to help ones that have left on their own or looking for a religion that have similar views as  them……. Some want to bring the governing body and/or the watchtower  organization down…….Some want to warn other unsuspecting people, that are  not aware that they can’t leave with dignity if they join and decide it isn’t  for them. Or aren’t aware that they have to get completely out of the world,  drop family and accept Only the watchtower’s view of scripture….Others want  to help victims of the various abuses that have been inflicted, whether emotional, sexual, mental or healing from mind and behaviour control.

One  can hardly find anything wrong with most of the sites.  But take issue with the ones that want to bring the org. down. But even this type, has a role to play, it seems. Anger is at an all time high often when you exit the JW religion,  because they inflict emotional harm when they see you are awakening.  So this type of site allows the person a place to let this anger out. Many of these  sites are loving to the individuals, and it gets them back in a safe mental place. After that, the person is able to go on to yet another site or group or  just get a relationship going again with Jehovah and Jesus.  I have observed this movement.  I have learned  to identify some of these individuals even tho they change their screen names over the years. They progress to a more stable relationship with God.

I may be wrong but I think this scripture has significance for us not of natural Israel,also. Rom.2:29 says a Jew is one on the inside. I know it will be a complete saving by Jesus but due to the fact these sites have been allowed by Divine Providence of Jehovah, I think we have got a little help for those mourning and sighing over the detestable things being done by the governing body and elders inside the JW organization. (Ezekial 9 chapter.)

Ezekiel 34 – I am aware this applies to Natural Israel and is happening now, but maybe we can find some hope and comfort, for he loves us too.

1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds  of Israel; prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to you shepherds of Israel who only take care of yourselves!  Should not shepherds take care of the flock? 3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock.  4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured.  You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost.  You have ruled them harshly and brutally.  5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals.  6 My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill.  They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for
them.

7  “‘Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: 8 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for hemselves rather than for my flock, 9 therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD: 10 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.

11  “‘For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. 12 As shepherds look after their scattered flocks when they are with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness. 13 I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land.

I may be wrong also, but I see a paralel of a sort between the Jehovah witnesses and the Bible Students.  The same sort like the 10 tribe kingdom and the two tribe kingdom. Both was accepted by Jehovah.  Note the Aid to Bible Understanding Book.

“With the fall of Israel the ten northern tribes were not completely lost, however.  Some persons of these tribes evidently were left in Israel’s territory by the Assyrians.  OTHERS no doubt fled from Israel’s idolatry to JUDAH’s territory prior to 740 BCE.” (pg. 854)  Judah lasted and brought forth the promised Messiah. I think it bears considering this.

That’s the beauty of my finding the Bible Students, you can think and actually say what you are thinking without fear of being punished.

So instead of us fighting with the governing body and it’s organization.  I want to present a format of accepting the fact that Jehovah is allowing all of this. I think this hate thing is going to backfire. More Christlike persons will be looking for a way out, they know a dangerous situation when they see it.

IF YOU HAVE TO FLEE, IT’S OKAY.  Matt.3:13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and ESCAPE to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”There is no Shame in Fleeing. The Magi provided the funds so they could do so.  Jehovah saw the organization of the scribes and pharisees weren’t going to Jesus’ aid although the shepherds had reported long ago he was born.  So he caught the attention of the astronomers of that time and they went.  They heeded, not satan, but as deliverers sent by God with goods to help Joseph and Mary, they went home by another way thus protecting the young child.  So I am accepting any protection and help that God is giving me.  To Joseph he said, “Stay there until I tell you”.

Please feel free to express your views on how to cope with this war of words going on.   I hope I have not fueled the fire. I want only to start us to thinking about this fighting with words. Hateful words will wear down our spirit. I personnally will take the high road, the Christian way and let the hate be a one-way street.
https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=5v6NpUldrGw

24 comments to “WAR OF WORDS” – Response to Nov 15 Watchtower Article, Study Version

  • Frank M

    Thank you to all the contributors. When reviewing (and trying to understand) Watchtower literature, it pays to remember that it is prepared by people skilled in legalistic type thinking, and with hidden motives. There is no doubt that the recent events in the WT world have rocked the congregations. Publishers are visibly ABSENT from the streets. If getting them out on field service was difficult before – it is really difficult now. After all – who wants to be seen promoting a discredited organization, indicted for covering up abuse, money-making schemes masquerading as religion, confusing and contradictory teachings, and covering up the facts about its past?

    The leaders are well aware of the problems. Their solution is to focus on scapegoats – and who better to pick on than those who have left the Organization?

    As a last thought – earlier WT articles indicated that Jehu “represented” Jesus Christ in his role as God’s executioner. So we could read the recent article as yet another instance where Jesus is phased out – and replaced by human leaders who take it on themselves to judge and execute.

    Shalom

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Frank – Thanks for your thoughts. You say that “Publishers are visibly ABSENT from the streets.” You may be exactly correct, however it is hard for me to understand what is really going on. Probably if I attended a local Kingdom Hall, on the surface I would see no visiable sign of trouble and disatisfaction in the JW organization. We really don’t have reliable statistics, so we need to rely on visitors to our site and other JWs we talk with to tell us what is going on. I am getting indications of disatisfaction and unrest, particularly with the June Study issues finally pushing the anointed asided and clearly identifying the Governing Body as the one Faithful and Discreet Slave. So here at this website we stand ready to hear JWs who would like to defend the organization and it’s beleifs and well as it’s critics. We hope that with an even and honest exchange of information that hopefully we can all come closer together and be of help to each other in a positive way.

    • Jacqueline

      Frank, hello. I stopped carrying the watchtower 3 years before I left and told my elders the vindictive language was embarrassing. I am here with JW family and it seems everyone focus now is not field service like before. A couple of elders have been shocking me with one horrible story after another. Morale is down, and the witnesses being different in conduct is no longer mentioned. All perpetrators are prominent ones, elders,pioneers etc . I don’t see that I am proud to be a witness attitude as in times past.
      My hope is my family will see there is spiritual life and satisfaction outside of the organization legal society
      I agree with all the points you made. I have not seen any witnesses in droves on streets like before and the kh I have visited with family have like 40 in attendance out of 120 publishers. Hopefully the internet will help them see what’s happening. Facebook groups and other discussion groups are numerous. Take care and thanks for commenting.

  • God’s people today, are no longer Jews by physical descent.
    Please examine the scriptural basis for this conclusion….

    “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you (the Jews) and given to a people who will produce its fruit.” Matt.21:43 (Matt.7:19; John15:16,5; Prov.12:14; Heb.13:15; 1Pet.2:5,9,10)

    “You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” For if God did not spare the natural branches (natural physical Jews), he will not spare you either. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot (Gentiles–not Jews), have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap (holy spirit) from the olive root (John15:4,5), do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.” (Rom.11:19,21,17,18)

    “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you did not want it. “Behold, your house is being left to you abandoned!” (Matt.23:37,38) (Josh.24:20; 2Chron.15:2; 7:19,20,21,22; 1Chron.28:9; 1Kings9:7)

    God’s promises to physical Jews will not fail, despite their rejection of the Messiah. How? Paul tells us how:
    “Well then, has God failed to fulfill his promise to Israel? No, for not all who are born into the nation of Israel are truly members of God’s people!” (Rom.9:6)
    “I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way, all Israel will be saved.” (Rom.11:25,26)
    Can you discern from these two scriptures, that the means by which God’s promises will be fulfilled toward Israel, is by means of the compensation by Gentiles to fulfill the deficient full number by physical Jews? By God’s acceptance of Gentiles into His new faithful Nation (thereby cleansing Gentiles into spiritual Jews/”Israel”); the promises He made will be fulfilled…
    “For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith (not through physical descent); for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal.3:18,26,27,28,29)

    This is why Paul did not assume his salvation was based upon his Jewish flesh. (Phil.3:3; Gal.6:15)
    He based it upon a “circumcision of the heart” which cleansing by spirit occurs to those who become spiritual Jews (Rom.2:28,29) and heirs of Abraham (Gal.3:29).

    The “Old Covenant” (“Law”) was “near to passing away” and being replaced through Christ (Heb.8:7,8,6,13; Matt.5:17). He is the “seed” who fulfilled and received the promises to Abraham (Gal.3:16). But he was to share his authority and inheritance with his brothers (Gal.3:22; Phil.3:10,11; Rom.6:5; 8:17; 2Pet.1:4). As physical descendants of Abraham, the Jews were first to be offered the inheritance of the kingdom (Matt.15:24; 10:6; Acts13:46; Rom.15:8; Matt.15:24), but this preference would not last (Luke8:21; Heb.8:13; Acts13:44,45,46; 18:6; Luke24:47; Rom.11:19; John15:2; Matt.21:43). God could raise up sons of Abraham (“Jews”) from even Gentiles (Luke3:8; Rom.2:28,29; Gal.3:14,28,29; Gal.4:28,26; Matt.21:43; Acts.10:34,35; 15:8,9,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19; Gen.17:3,4,5; Rev.5:9,10). These would stand by means of faith, not by means of their Jewish flesh (Rom.11:20; 2Cor.1:24; Heb.6:12,15; 10:36).

    God has allowed the free-will choice of the physical Jews to reject what God has offered them (Matt.27:23,25; Acts18:6; Rom.11:25; 9:18; 11:7,12) until the full number of required anointed priests and kings is fulfilled by “Gentiles” (all nations).
    Once the “remnant” of physical Jews of faith in Christ were gathered (Rom.9:27; 11:5); the rest of the anointed flock of Christ was completed by means of physical Gentiles. These two groups would become “one flock” over which there would be “one shepherd”.
    Two links to help with this understanding:
    (http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/04/anointed-flockthe-truth.html)
    (http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/01/what-is-jew-what-is-gentile-answers-to.html)

    All the prophecies that mention the final salvation to the “Jews”, are speaking of those who are God’s nation by means of faith (Rom.9:26; 8:14). These become “Jews” in spirit. God’s original promise to Abraham specified that he would be father, not just to Jews, but to “many nations” (Gen.17:5,7). Abraham is father to those who imitate his faith, though which they inherit the promises given to him and his seed (Gal.3:29).
    Abraham’s seed are the same spiritual “Jews” being spoken of in the symbolic book of Revelation (Rev.7:4; 21:14).
    These are the same 144000 seen on “Mt. Zion” (Rev.14:1) and are equated in scripture with New Jerusalem (Isa.2:3; Heb.12:22; Rev.21:2).

    So although many self-sourced “scholars” declare that we should expect a miraculous conversion of physical Jews, in order to fulfill God’s promises to save “Israel”;
    the scriptures identify
    who “Israel” actually is,
    the means by which this entire new nation will be “saved”,
    and clarifying precisely who will fulfill and receive those very promises.
    (Jer.31:33; Acts15:14; Isa.43:21; 1Pet.2:9,10; Rev.5:9,10).

    I know that there are many more scriptures which establish these things, and I apologize for not including all of them. I hope the ones I was enabled to offer, are sufficient to give you a clear reply.
    If not, please follow up with your additional question.
    God bless you in your search for truth,
    Pearl

    • Jacqueline

      Pearl hello and thanks for your informative statements. I however always had a problem with unfulfilled scriptures regarding the Jewish nation. Land promised but not totally obtained. Almost the entire book of Isaiah where he promised to forgive them and restore. Non of it fits spiritual Israel. I for myself agree with the facts of the articles presented on this site concerning the natural Jewish people.
      Your views are appreciated along with fellowship. From my heart, Jacqueline

      • ALL OF IT fits spiritual Israel. Every anointed one today need forgiveness for their subjection to organized religion rather than to Christ their Head. This is especially so within JW’s and their idolatry to the Organization. The Chosen ones today have been “scattered” among the “Nations” as discipline for being overcome by the Wild Beast (Rev.13:7,8). The “Nations”/Gentiles, consist of the Non-Anointed Congregations.
        Until this is viewed spiritually, it’s application goes unrecognized. Once the spiritual aspect of prophesy is perceived according to scriptural interpretation, then there is an amazing and detailed spiritual application.

        The “Land” due to be inherited by Abraham’s seed, is the whole planet…as Gen.28:13,14 says, “North, South, East, and West”. It is important to take note of the context of when this promise was stated. This inheritance is tied to “angels”, ascending and descending while serving Christ (Gen.28:12,13; John1:51; Rev.22:3). These heavenly angels are not physical descendants of Abraham, but spiritual ones.
        As Heb.2:5,16,8 reads:
        “It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants, and “put everything under their feet.” In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.”

        At present the Chosen kings do not yet have the world subject to them. This involves the very prophecies in Isaiah which you reference. These must first conquer Satan, previous to being restored (Rev.12:10,11)and installed into the everlasting kingdom.
        I hope you will deeply consider all the scriptures I have cited, both in this comment and the previous one.
        They details they provide about this subject, banish the blurred image.
        The links are will worth your consideration.
        All the Best,
        Pearl

        • Isa.63:18 reads:
          “For a little while your people possessed your holy place, but now our enemies have trampled down your sanctuary.”
          This is the same trampling taking place in Rev.11:2…
          “But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.”
          Here the “Temple” is called the “Holy City”. In Daniel, this temple is spoken of as “the Holy Ones”/”the Lord’s people”…

          “Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled–the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the LORD’s people?”

          “As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.”
          Dan.8:13; 7:21,22

          This is in harmony with the scriptures interpretation of the trampled “Temple”
          1Cor.3:16 reads
          “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?”
          Eph.2:22,21
          ” built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.”
          These are being trampled by the “man of lawlessness”, at 2Thess.2:4.

          Regarding the “Holy City” being trampled, that is defined similarly, at Heb.12:22,23
          “But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven.” (see Luke10:20)
          Rev.21:2
          “I saw the HOLY CITY, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.”

          Regarding the “Lord’s people” being trampled, these too are identified, at 1Pet.2:10 A, as the anointed chosen priests
          “Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God” (see 1Pet.2:5,9,10)
          All these interpretations of Isa.63:18,
          point to the anointed chosen ones, who are (in a spiritual way) fulfilling all these prophecies.
          Who “tramples” God’s people today? Who are considered by God as “Gentile”?
          This is in plain sight, for those who can view past the physical.
          (Rom.2:28,29; Gal.3:28,29; Rom.9:6)

          • Jacqueline

            Thanks Pearl,I will dissect your scriptures. I often go directly to your site. It seems I am always away when you comment. I can post to most even when I stop briefly on the road.
            BUT NOT TO YOU. Lol. One must have full access to the bible to successfully answer. Your knowledge of scripture is in depth. I can’t see how we can just apply scriptures to spiritual Israel based on the scriptures that show then being cast off. I will read more later to offer scriptural support and the actual happenings with the Jews that fits just as well. I will be totally off the road around October 31. I will visit Barbara then set out to familiarize myself with Israel. Intellectually understanding holds great importance with me but not utmost importance. There are some very basics that ones must have straight. That God exists,(heb. 11:6). Confess Jesus 1John 4:5, Jesus is Christ 1John 3:22, Jesus came in the flesh 1John4:33, we are not under law Gal 5:4, believe in resurrection 2Tim 2:16-18. I like that you present such deep spiritual insight by God’s spirit. I think it allows a different viewpoint. With me a few events of Israel modern history makes me look at Natural Israel. We may not agree on this issue but I will go to your site to understand why you are so sure.
            I am typing on a cell phone so please excuse any spelling errors. I am surrounded by JW relatives for the next two weeks. They are one inch from stoning me and for me to pull out books now will do harm. We are discussing less difficult issues and it’s a much more stressful situation than I had imagined. I want to acknowledge however that I am seeing6your comments.
            I know Br . Peter will jump in to discuss points you are making. I require space and time for your subjects. YOU IN GOD’S GRACE ARE DEEP.(:). Sincerely Jacqueline.

            • If we look for fulfillment of prophecy in Satan’s world, we must remember that he controls all that unfolds there (1John5:19) and is intent on misleading those seeking truthful interpretation (Matt.24:4,5,24,25; 2Thess.2:9; Rev.12:9,15,17; 13:7,8,11,14).
              Some believe that Satan would not divide his own world against itself, but this idea needs to be thought through with the help of the scriptures.
              If Satan is in control of all sides at all times, he is not against himself. If the conflicts in his world attain his goals of deception, he does not stand divided.
              This can be illustrated.
              A director of a play about conflict, can cause his actors to enter conflict among themselves while performing. This does not mean that the director falls.

              Also to be considered, is that prophecy tells us that Satan’s last power (which he uses to mislead the final remnant of Chosen ones) DOES BECOME DIVIDED…and as a result, Satan WILL fall (Mark3:24; Dan.2:41,43,44; Rev.12:9A). Those who promote the idea that Satan is not using his world power to emulate a counterfeit fulfillment of prophecy, (because he will not “divide himself”), assume that Satan is not going to fall, for precisely this very reason.
              There are so many deceptions rife in the dark spiritual time in which we live. This is the very meaning of “Babylon (“confusion”) the Great”. Yet we are also promised that the “true knowledge will become abundant” (Dan.12:4) by means of anointed stars (Dan.12:3; Phil.2:15; Rev.1:20; 11:3,4). The availability of this true knowledge will not result in all those “roving about” finding it though, as it will be obscured by all the confusion (Luke13:23,24; Matt.7:14; Luke18:26,27). This is why all teachers bear a greater responsibility before God’s judgment (James3:1) and why they will be held accountable for every word spoken (Matt.12:36,37).

  • Keepha

    @Jacqueline give me a call sometime

  • A “War of Words” is the exact nature of “Armageddon”.

    http://armageddon-obadiah.blogspot.com/2013_01_01_archive.html

    The present tyrannical climate within the “Organization” has great significance.

    http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2013/09/are-you-ready.html

    • Jacqueline

      Hi Pearl, nice to hear from you. I will go over and read your post on those links, thanks. How have you been? Is all well with your family? Take care I will comment after I read your articles.

      • Wonderful to hear from you also.
        God bless.

        • Jacqueline

          Pearl I have read the article on Armageddon being a decision like Megiddo where decisive battles are fought. I do agree that the almost extinction of mankind will be their doing and not an act of Judgment by Jehovah. I must however finish the other articles and scriptures before I comment further.
          So far I see that it is a war of words, Good against Evil as to which has told the truth or the lie. After thoroughly considering, I need to check it against something very physical, a situation that would present with Israel. Since I need time I wanted to let you know I am reading.
          This is an unbelievable busy and stressful week for me so it will take time as I set aside the majority of this week to attend to other business.
          I really hate to comment before I read your other articles on the subject for you might cover that issue of Israel being in peril.

          • Thank you for your consideration. I know many believe that Jews by flesh still hold favor with God. We know that God’s promises to the patriarchs were filfilled to Christ (Gal.3:7-11,14,16,26-29)
            If you believe that the Jews/lopped off branches, continue to have more favor with God than other nationalities, I hope you will reconsider many scriptures, such as
            Eph.2:11-22; Acts.10:34,35; Gal.6:15,16; Heb.8:13;
            Rev.5:9,10; 7:4; Heb.6:12

            as well as the good article located here:
            http://godsavesisrael.blogspot.com/

            I hope that if, after considering the scriptures in that article, you still feel that the Israel of God does not consist of all tribes, or that physical Jews still hold special favor with God, will you please let me know the scriptures upon which you base your perspective?
            Thank you, Pearl

            • Jacqueline

              Pearl I will post scriptures, hopefully late afternoon Tuesday as I have appointments all day tomorrow and Wednesday is an open day. I want to read what you have to say on your entire post before I answer. Isn’t it something, I have just come from a convention and the last two weeks a new granddaughter and some small problems and wrap up for my business before October. So hopefully I can find a minute because I am really interested in your approach. This link contains some of the info but my questions will be based on scriptures that talk about the Jewish nation and are applied by the witnesses to them and I know they don’t make sense if not the real Jewish nation. When we studied the Isa. book my eyes opened wide as I realized that prophecies about the Jews are still going on after the times of the gentiles ran out.
              Jacqueline

            • Peter K. (admin)

              Pearl – It is nice to have you commenting here again on our website. You have an amazing amount of zeal and knowledge and I really respect that I know we disagreed on some points regarding the New Covenant last time we talked. Please don’t let me frustrate you in areas where we disagree. I know there is a lot we do agree on, however we often tend to focus our discussions on trying to work out differences.

              I know you addressed your comments to Jacqueline and I look forward to hearing her thoughts. While we wait for her comments later, I would like to respond as well.

              I read your blog link. Thank you for a good presentation. I am very familiar with the scriptures you explained. Here is where we differ. You see God’s rejection of Israel as permanent. I also see the rejection in the scriptures you quoted. However, other Bible verses that you did not quote show that the rejection is temporary, not permanent and that favor to the nation of Israel is to be restored permanently.

              Let me assure you that Bible Students understand that the New Creation (the Anointed) are in fact Spiritual Israel. However, some Bible promises apply to Spiritual Israel and some to Natural Israel. We can determine that by the context of the Bible verses we are reading. We must not rob Natural Israel of their permanent promises and make God to be a liar. Natural Israel was unfaithful and for that punished. However their punishment is not forever.

              The 800 pound gorilla in the room here is that God has already brought over 50% of the Jews the world back to Israel. They have now been a nation since 1948. To conclude that God has permanently rejected the Jewish people then raises the questions of how were they able to survive as a unique people for 2,000 years and how were they able to defy the will of Jehovah and return to the land after he had cast them out forever? That would be impossible, as it makes Jehovah look helpless to carry out his will.

              Our website and the Studies in the Scriptures are filled with scriptures showing that God has not rejected natural Israel forever and that favor was promised to return. Here is a link that I think will demonstrate that favor does return to natural Israel permanently after their long period of punishment or disfavor: http://www.friendsofjehovahswitnesses.com/2012/12/01/did-the-apostle-paul-believe-that-the-jews-natural-israel-were-rejected-by-jehovah-forever/

              Thanks however, for sharing your point of view. That is a big purpose of this site, to allow our friends to talk and share their point of view. Although at times we may disagree, we will not shut you down or stop you from sharing your perspective. We only have limitations on the volume of comments. For example, we don’t want John Doe posting ten times in a day or our visitors may not notice that Pearl is commenting as well.

            • Jacqueline

              Pearl, I was wondering how you are doing on a personal level? Are you holding up? I am so sorry you went thru a judicial meeting that can be so stressful but I know you felt it was necessary. In addition I read where others are not providing a speaking platform on their sites either. “And this too shall pass” Pearl. Trials make us strong, tough and resilient. It allows the Spirit to work for us and in us.
              I wondered how you were. Do you still have family support? I hope so. If not I know Jesus is providing enough for you so survive until it lets up, thru God’s gift of the Holy Spirit.
              I had some down time and thought I would let you know we are glad to hear from you and know you are still strong. In Him, Jacqueline

  • Anonymous

    How do I get to see the “study version” of the Nov 15 Watchtower?

  • Kent

    “So instead of us fighting with the governing body and it’s organization. I want to present a format of accepting the fact that Jehovah is allowing all of this. I think this hate thing is going to backfire. More Christlike persons will be looking for a way out, they know a dangerous situation when they see it.”

    ——————————–

    This way of thinking shows your spiritual maturity. To focus on imitating Jehovah and his Son is the most important thing for us. To fall in the trap of making hate and revenge guide us, will not be good for us. We will choose love as our motive.

    As long as God permits these things, we will have to permit it. Also the ten tribes and the two tribes, of thinking you did, was also very interesting.

    Love from Kent

    • Jacqueline

      Kent, that’s something we forget sometimes, that he is guiding affairs. I am going to say that everytime words like those mentioned in the article upset me.
      When I opened my computer after seeing you had commented on my droid, I saw this headline: Fred Shuttlesworth dead at 89yrs. His church is a landmark still in Birmingham Al. and my mother’s home still stands on the next street, a sibling occupies it.It’s funny how every little thing shapes your life. I would be so afraid as a little girl when they bombed his church or home on Christmas eve. I learned to be tough tho and not give in to tyranny. Our windows would shake so hard but we made it thru in our neighborhood. I played with his daughters but it became dangerous to be near his home, just yards away. I am going to call my sibling and ask him to video the procession as it passes the home and the landmark. Sorry you can’t make the study tonight, you are such an encouragement to us when you get up at 2am to come online. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-05/fred-shuttlesworth-dies/50667896/1?csp=34news

Leave a Reply

You can use these HTML tags

<a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>