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Is Jesus Coming or Has He Returned? Watch this Video

 

6 comments to Is Jesus Coming or Has He Returned? Watch this Video

  • Dave

    Hi Jacqueline,
    Thanks for your effort to solve this dilemma. There are many parallels between the first and second advents, also some differences. Jesus was certainly “not felt” or of no consequence to the many. He said, “that a prophet has no honor in his own country” (Jn. 4:44). All of that will be overturned at his second advent when he will be recognized as King of kings and Lord of lords.
    Dave

  • Dave

    Hi Peter,
    Thanks for the reply. I am thinking that the theological books listed don’t precisely say that the meaning of parousia is as either a “secret” or an “invisible” presence. Are there any other lexical sources that indicate that “secret” or “invisible” are terms tied into the lexicography? The verses you have listed show “presence” in application of individuals where there was no secret or invisible aspect.
    Also, the use of the term “SECOND parousia” implies that there was a first. If this (first)is applied to Jesus’ earthly ministry, it would seem to be anything but “secret” or “invisible.” The theologians have applied “parousia” as a technical term ONLY to the second advent. I am not aware that parousia ever describes the first advent. Therefore, there is only one parousia of Jesus Christ. How would you see this?
    Dave

    • Jacqueline

      Hi Dave, I am waiting to hear Br. Peter reply to you but I wanted to express my thoughts in trying to think this through once. Jesus was actually present for quite a while in the first advent. Only a few understood, Mary, shepherds, Joseph, John, The high priest, Anna and maybe some others as the Magi was looking also. Mary even knew he could change the wine shortage and the others didn’t argue with him when he said fill the water jugs. He seemed to be someone special. But he was not visible, felt, until his presentation for Baptism. He seemed to be someone that had made his presence felt to some before the presentation.
      I know this is not exactly par for par but I just felt it should have been something in the first advent that paralleled. If this doesn’t make sense it is just what my brain needed to harmonize although the bible does not say it had to be as the first it actually was. Now for some scriptural thoughts from Br. Peter.

  • Dave

    Can someone clarify?
    I note the term “second presence”. Is this a secret or invisible presence?
    The theologians use the term parousia to refer to the second advent/coming only. If the parousia is a secret or invisible presence, then what is the (implied) first presence?

    Thanks, Dave

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Dave – Yes, parousia is a secret or invisible presence. Although at Jesus’ first presence He was visible, the general population did not recognize him as Messiah, only a small percent, just as at his second presence. The manner of Jesus second presence is such a big topic that the second volume, “The Time is at Hand,” devotes 70 pages to discuss it in a chapter called, “The Manner of the Lord’s Appearing.” To start, I will confine my comments to what is meant by the word parousia. After that, if you want to continue to discuss the subject, we can do that.

      Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words
      (Copyright (C) 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers)

      COMING (NOUN) “3. parousia ^3952^, lit., “a presence,” para, “with,” and ousia, “being” (from eimi, “to be”), denotes both an “arrival” and a consequent “presence with.” For instance, in a papyrus letter a lady speaks of the necessity of her parousia in a place in order to attend to matters relating to her property there. Paul speaks of his parousia in Philippi, (in contrast to his apousia, “his absence”; see ABSENCE). Other words denote “the arrival” (see eisodos and eleusis, above). Parousia is used to describe the presence of Christ with His disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration, <2 Pet. 1:16>. When used of the return of Christ, at the rapture of the church, it signifies, not merely His momentary “coming” for His saints, but His presence with them from that moment until His revelation and manifestation to the world. In some passages the word gives prominence to the beginning of that period, the course of the period being implied, <1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thes. 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thes. 2:1; Jas. 5:7-8; 2 Pet. 3:4>. In some, the course is prominent, ; in others the conclusion of the period, .

      Notice how Vines says that the word Parousia “denotes both an ‘arrival’ and a consequent ‘presence with.’” If someone has ”arrived,” they are “present.” The word “arrival” does not denote “coming” as in the statement “I am coming.” It denotes the beginning of a presence as in the statement “I have arrived.” Vines clarifies this point by stating that “In some passages the word gives prominence to the beginning of that period, the course of the period being implied.”

      Quoting from page 271 of Rotherham’s Appendix it says, “In this edition the word parousia is uniformly rendered ‘presence’ (‘coming,’ as a representative of this word, being set aside). The original term occurs twenty-four times in the N.T…The sense of ‘presence’ is so plainly shown by the contrast with ‘absence’ (implied in 2 Cor. 10:10, and expressed in Phil. 2:12) that the question naturally arises, – Why not always so render it? The more so, inasmuch as there is in 2 Peter 1:16 also, a peculiar fitness in our English word ‘presence.’ This passage, it will be remembered, relates to our Lord’s transformation upon the Mount. The wonderful manifestation there made was a display and sample of ‘presence’ rather than of ‘coming.’ The Lord was already there; and, being there, he was transformed (cp. Matt. 17:2,n.) and the ‘majesty’ of his glorified person was then disclosed. His bodily ‘presence’ was one which implied and exerted ‘power’; so that ‘power and presence’ go excellently well together – the ‘power’ befitting such a ‘presence’; and the three favoured disciples were at one and the same moment witnesses of both.”

      Quoting from the book “I Will Come Again,” it says, “Harry Rimmer (D.D., Sc.D.), who was styled “Fundamentalism’s outstanding spokesman” until his death, admitted that the word parousia meant personal presence. In his book, The Coming King, he observed that the Greek word parousia is used 13 time in describing the return of Christ and not once does it have the thought of “coming.”

      Examples of “parousia” in Bible verses

      There are many times when the word parousia is used in the New Testament, but there are only six times when it does not refer to Christ’s 2nd Presence. Notice in every verse quoted, only presence makes sense, not coming. Even if you use the word “Arrival” it means it in the sense of “already having arrived,” not “on the way.”

      1 Cor 16:17 “I am glad of the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus: for that which was lacking on your part they have supplied.” (KJV)

      2 Cor 7:6 “Nevertheless God, that comforteth those that are cast down, comforted us by the coming of Titus;” (KJV)

      2 Cor 10:10 “For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.” (KJV)

      Phil 1:26 “That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.” (KJV) [In other words, you will rejoice when I am present with you again.]

      Phil 2:12 “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (KJV)

      2 Pet 1:16-18
      16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ [on the Mount of Transfiguration], but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
      17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
      18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. (KJV)

      Conclusion

      In every case here the word parousia means “presence,” (as in “have arrived”) not “coming” (as in “on the way”). Taking the Bible’s usage of the word parousia to establish it’s meaning, It does not seem honest to translate this word any other way than “presence

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