May 8 Conference Call – Did Jesus Die for ALL MEN or ‘all sorts of men’ (NWT)?25

CLICK ON THE RECORDING ABOVE OR IF YOU  CLICK HERE TO LISTEN.  You will need to find the May 8, 2011 program and click on that.

What Biblical doctrine, more than any other, demonstrates the Love and Justice of God?

How have the Jehovah’s Witnesses lost this most important doctrine of Christianity?

What is this doctrine that challenges their fundamental purpose in going form house to house?

How can this doctrine bring joy and confidence in the face of the fear that the Watchtower strikes into its members who question it?

These and other related questions will be discussed in the upcoming program on “THE RANSOM FOR ALL.”  This program is produced by the Associated Bible Students, a nondenominational group of Christian who believe that Jesus died, “a ransom for all.”

MAY 8 CONFERENCE CALL DETAILS:

The Sunday, May 8 program starts 6:00 pm EDT.  The central time zone is 5:00 CDT.  On the west coast it begins 3:00 PDT.  David Stein, former JW and Bethelite, will join with two other Bible Students in a panel discussion on this fascinating topic.  You can listen to and participate in this mega conference call discussion by calling (712) 432-8710. When asked for pin number use 9925 followed by # (the pound sign).  To participate a called needs to hit *1 to unmute (*1 is a toggle between mute and unmute).

The conference call is only by telephone call in.  It will be recorded and posted within a couple of weeks or so after the program.  The recordings are posted here:

5 comments to May 8 Conference Call – Did Jesus Die for ALL MEN or ‘all sorts of men’ (NWT)?25

  • Gert-Jan

    I concur with Peter. I in fact am still a Jehovah’s Witness, inactive as they call it. I feel no bond with them anymore, and whatever they do regarding me now has no effect on me, merely on others attitude toward me, which again does not bother me, since its their (choice). I decided many years ago that I can no longer believe it is the truth. In fact I am convinced it is not the truth.

    Thing with those personal problems, or issues on doctrines is that if you openly disagree with the JW doctrine, especially when brought into the meetings, your headed for some trouble.

    It usually starts with a stern warning, next a much sterner one, and finally either a ‘fear inspiring’ comity, acting like they own the throne of the Almighty and if you still don’t keep you QUESTIONS (!) to yourself you will be labeled an apostate the worst kind of sinner, possibly there is no forgiveness for you, excommunicated (‘disfellowshiped’) meaning no more even the slightest contact with any other Jehovah’s Witness even family members.

    The reason why most fear this excommunication is that, if you are being a ‘good’ jehovah’s witness you will have no non-JW friends. So, ones entire social life collapses in a single day when disfellowshiped.

    Plus the fact that talking against the teaching of JW is emphasised more than anything else as a terrible act against the lead of the JW, ‘the faithful and discreet slave’, more specifically the governing body. and since those are under Jehovah’s guidance – as we are told by that very same group men – we are actually rebelling against Jehovah Himself.
    Well, do you brother, sister, want to be rebelling against Jehovah? Of course not.
    Followed first by the fear of ‘falling into the hand of the living God’ in the sense of judgement, and only after that issue is ‘milked’ for all they can, the reasoning continues on the subject of all of Jehovah’s blessings and His sacrifice regarding His Son, and all the blessing each one of us received in our personal lives, and a lot more blabla. (Of course those arguments do have their value in the proper context, but they are abusing it in these situation, if you ask me)

    So fear of ‘speaking against Jehovah’, fear of disappointing friends and relatives when you might be considered to ‘speak against Jehovah’, fear of the consequences that speaking up might have.

    I had a long list of questions. Some were answered in an totally unsatisfactory manner, (put it that way not to use a known acronym), most were dismissed, labelling them as a waste of time, and only once, on one issue a wise elderly elder said, after spending time to look into it, that it puzzled him as well, he had no answer, but we were to wait for Jehovah to reveal it in time. This answer was the only one that in my book deserve some degree of respect. Yet since the issue was a bible verse that disproved an elementary teaching of JW, it was still insufficient.

    The tone I asked those questions was most humble, and always in a private situation. Yet even so some replied that I was manoeuvring myself on to dangerous grounds.

    In my case I have learned that giving a certain amount of precaution a JW may ask questions, but must be ‘humble’ to forget about the question once an answer is given, no matter how unsatisfying. I know some that were disfellowshiped for continuing on their questions.

    The comity is a group of elders (2 or 4) that will talk to one if they suspect to find grounds for disfellowshipping. Often these are men with little secular education, even stubborn, or ignorant. Yet they act in most cases extremely arrogant, and accept no contradicting. If they made up their minds about the facts there is nothing you can do about it. I had the ‘privilege’ once to be summoned. I witnessed how the four men that I was confronted with had no trouble bluntly lying about subject, about claims they had made in the past on the subject, claims that were made by them in the first hearing, and denied in the second hearing, both times with me present. When I pointed out the problem (the lie) it was denied a second time, with force.

    Jacqueline, A 15 talk, ey. Never encountered it in 30+ years of being JW. Guess its called different here. usually the disfellowship talk, I guess.

    To all JW’s witnesses: Brothers, sisters, please, read the signs. there are so many. For your own sake. For the sake of your relationship with God: read the signs, don’t dismiss that uncomfortable feeling in your gut. The truth CAN handle scrutiny.

    Look at those things in the organisation that you might call darkness and wonder how can it be. Darkness and light have nothing in common.

    JW often respond: ‘Does that person’ (the apostate) ‘have the truth then? No? See? there you go. ….’

    You do not need to have all the alternative answers before concluding that something is NOT the truth. You don’t need to come up with ‘something better’ before you can kiss farewell to something that is NOT what is always claimed to be, Gods sole channel on earth. I sincerely believe the organisation of JW is not.

    God bless.

    Gert-Jan, Netherlands.

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Gert-Jan – Thanks for sharing your experiences. If I might add, I think there is a connection between doctrinal belief and behavior. Bible Students believe in a Ransom for ALL (1 Tim 2:6), that even those who reject the message today will come back for a learning and judgement period in the future on Paradise Earth (Isa 26:9). In accepting the “Ransom for ALL” as harmonious with “God is LOVE” (1 John 4:8), we can treat those who disagree with us with Jehovah’s same love, mercy, kindness and patience. Now during the Dark, the Papacy could imprison, torture and kill heretics like us, because after all, we here going to Hell anyway, they were just giving us an early start. Since the Governing Body of JWs teach that any who reject the message will die forever in Armageddon, their intolerant behavior is consistent with their view of Jehovah’s character. We hope to hear more from you friend.

      1 John 4:7 (NASV) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love… 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another…14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. 16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him… 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because He first loved us. 20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

  • I want to know why jehovah’s witnesses member dont bring their personal problem to the kingdom hall. so that the whole congregation can hear and render a help, plaese can someone explaine.

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Sagbhan Samuel – If a Jehovah’s Witness member brings a problem to the kingdom hall they risk being called a trouble maker and/or an Apostate, by the elders and circuit overseer. Perhaps someone else has a different answer. I hope we hear from others.

    • Jacqueline

      At one time the GB instructed the cong to give a 15 talk after a problem was handled by the committee of 3 to let the cong know the nature of the problem. They used the scripture that says to bring it before the congregation. But many of the sins dealt with pedophilia, lesbian and gay activities, voyueism of young girls, wife swapping such things as this on a massive scale. That would be violative to say the least. The purpose is to win your brother. The society punishes for sins committed. That is just the organization way of handling problems, they are a corporation and would probably get in legal trouble. They wouldn’t be able to say they are strictly religious like a priest if they told the cong. That is why they stopped reading the 15 talk, they lost the right to privacy in the pedophilile cases, because they told the congregation. They had to tell what was confessed in privacy and it cost them millions, because they lost priest silent privileges, which would have made it the victim’s word against the accused without 2 witnesses to the matter. I am just talking about my own congregation but you will find this to be the case if you do research. Hope that sheds some light on the legal issues of confession and government court systems. You are either strictly religious or not. You can’t be both and have priestly priviliges. Thank you.

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