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How can I leave the JWs without losing my family?

(Editorial note added 8/22/10:  If you are happy as a JW, we are not advocating that you leave, nor are we advocating division among the Lord’s people.  What we are expressing here is that Christians in any Church should have the freedom and liberty to express their views of scriptures, based on personal and honest study of God’s Word.  We are not advocating the causing of chaos and turmoil within any Congregation, but simply that our Liberty in Christ should allow one to express differences of opinion without fear of discipline, rebuke and punishment.  How can any Christian be confident they have arrived at the Truth in a repressive environment  controlled by fear?  But let us not fool ourselves by believing we will have this Liberty in other denominations.  Sadly, you will not find yourself welcome in most Churches where you contradict the Pastor in the Bible studies.  Bible Students will allow you to contradict the study leader, but we will not allow you to dominate or take control of the study.)

So you are discouraged and dissatisfied.  You want out of the JWs.  But you feel trapped.  How can you leave the organization without being labeled an Apostate?  The organizations main weapon is separating your family from you.  Once you are labeled as an Apostate, it could be all over for your family life. The cost is too high!  You just can’t do it!  Or can you?

The purpose of this post is to get a discussion going on how a JW can leave with minimal injury to themselves and their families.  Is it possible?  Please share your ideas and maybe together we can put together an Emergency Escape Plan that actually works. This is a link to the Book written by Br. Raymond Franz:

http://www.commentarypress.com/Publication/English.html

WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

Before you even consider leaving the JWs, perhaps you need to decide what your doctrinal stand is.  What do you really believe?  Have you proven what you believe from scripture?  Is your faith unshakable?  Or do you not really care, because you just want out?

Will the injuries of leaving the organization be so great, will you be so angry and so bitter, that you will be willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater?  Are you okay with going back to hell, trinity and immortality of the soul?  Are you willing to give up your belief of Paradise earth?  Will the Catholic, Methodist or Baptist Church be okay for you?  Or will you be content to be by yourself, even though the Apostle Paul said “Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together”  Heb 10:25.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

If and when you leave, you are not alone.  There are many other Jehovah’s Witnesses who have left that are looking for fellowship.  You are always welcome to come and visit the Bible Students.  How can you find others to meet with?  Finding Bible Students is easy enough, because you can find dozens of our websites on the Internet and by contacting any one of those sites, you can be put in contact with the Bible Students nearest you.  If there are no Bible Students nearby, you can join one of their weeknight conference call studies.  I can provide you with that information.

JEHOVAH’S WITNESS REFORM MOVEMENT

How about joining one of the Jehovah’s Witnesses Reform groups?  I think you can do so, but it might be a challenge.  As far as I can see, there is no far reaching organized mega-JW reform movement to join, and actually that is a good thing, because you are probably trying to get away from a controlling organization.  However, this ragtag Freedom Seeking Reform Movement can be far more effective than it has been.  Here are my suggestions.  First, there needs to be a “trusted source” having JWs best interests at heart, that maintains a database of new JW Reform groups forming.  This database can be organized by geographical location so that you can find the JW Reform Bible Study Group nearest you.  The website should contain helpful information about each group to help searching JWs learn more and make an informed decision.

For example, let’s say I am a Freedom Seeking JW checking out this  hypothetical database.  I would click on the city near nearest me and an information page on the Reform Groups in that city pops up.  I click on one of the reform groups and see the following information:

*  Location and street address where they meet

*  Day and time they meet

*  Approximate number of attendees in their group

*  Contact phone # and email address

*  Group website if one exists

*  What We Believe statement.

*  Other information the group wants to share with you

The What We Believe statement is important.  For example, a JW seeking alternatives may want to know whether you still believe in Paradise Earth or Hell Fire.

HOW DO YOU LEAVE WITHOUT GETTING HURT OR LOSING YOUR FAMILY?

I am reminded of  Paul’s words in 2 Tim 2:12, “If we suffer, we shall also reign with him,” however, I realize that some may not find this comforting since the implication is that following Christ (rather than man / an organization) can result in suffering.  However there may be some more effective ways of leaving while minimizing the potential fall out to your family.

Here are some more thoughts.  Are there JWs in your Kingdom Hall that you can talk to freely without fear of being reported to the Elders or Circuit Overseer.  If so, I suggest you discuss your concerns together and see if you they would be willing to quietly meet together for a weekly Bible Study.  You might want to start out with a one-on-one study before incorporating them into your larger little study group.  Once they become a regular participant with you, they can join a larger group with less fear they they will report you all, since they have already been a regular participant with you.  (I know.  Achieving liberty takes a lot of work, just ask the Founding Fathers.)

If you can safely do so, you might also want to feel out your family and see if they are willing to participate in your weekly study; but before doing so, you might want to meet with your family privately, if you are afraid they will report the other brothers and sisters attending your weekly study.  Getting them in the study is important in bringing them into the process of freeing their minds to appreciate the importance of open dialogue and liberty in Christ.

Meeting together weekly will help demonstrate whether your little group has chemistry and the possibility for creating an independent breakaway reform study group.  If some time passes and the group study is working well and if you are enjoying the Freedom and Liberty you have in Christ and being able to allow the Holy Spirit to guide you to Truth (John 16:13), then may be ready for step#2.  But your whole study group must realize that step two may ultimately result in their being disfellowshipped and that if they are not willing to follow through with that, they should make it known that they will not support you, so that you are not surprised when you are left holding the bag of the fall out.  However, being a martyr may ultimately result in saving others.  Are you willing to risk it all for Liberty in Christ?

SHOULD YOU PUBLICLY MAKE YOUR MOVE?

Publicly making your move will help you to finally break free and encourage other JWs to join you.  There is no telling how long you can continue to quietly meet with your little study group.  Some of you may want to take your chances just doing that for as long as you can.   However, sooner or later you may be discovered.  It might be hard to maintain a secret study indefinitely.  It will also be hard to be continually carry this burden of secrecy, which is the opposite of Christian honesty, but which seems like a necessary evil under your difficult/oppressive circumstances.

For step 2, the one in your group most courageous might try politely, but firmly, challenging a point of view you disagree with in a Kingdom Hall study and see what happens.  (Try to pick an issue where you have powerful scriptural support and you are confident of your view.)  See if you are immediately shut down or if you are permitted a difference of opinion without reprisal.  If on the off chance you are permitted a difference of opinion, then with patience and over time your little study group can politely disagree with objectionable thoughts promoted at the Kingdom Hall and provide your scriptural support.  At some point, if not immediately, you will be shut down.  But hopefully, you will have gotten some of the others to think.

IF YOU MAKE YOUR MOVE PUBLICLY

Now you are ready for step 3.  The one in your group most courageous should make an announcement at the Sunday Kingdom Hall meeting.  Probably, you are not allowed to make announcements yourself, so you will be breaking protocol and interrupting the meeting.  Because they will probably shut you down quickly, your complete message should be in your first sentence.  For example, you could say something like this:

On Thursday nights at John Doe’s house you are invited to study the Watchtower article “Fill in the Blank” with us.

If you can get this far, you are doing well.  You may be labeled as a rebel, but I don’t think this yet rises to the level of an Apostate.  By selecting a Watchtower article to study, you are making your move less objectionable.  If you can get JWs to meet with your group, on your turf, in your home, you might have a chance to influence them toward a free, honest and open discussion.  If opposing Elders show up, be prepared for a showdown.  Do not be rude, but loving and willing to listen.  Only disagree in love, not in anger.  If you want to continue with the more subtle approach, you can try to continue the study of the Watchtower article and see where it goes.  If you are permitted to do this, you can help get the group in the habit of freely expressing their views, even if different.  However, I imagine the opposing Elders will not allow you to have a non-organization sponsored study without disciplinary action.  Be prepared to be disfellowshipped.

If you still agree with JW teachngs, you can take the position that you are still a Jehovah’s Witness and that nothing has changed except that you believe it is unhealthy not to permit differences of opinion to be expressed in JW studies, as long as accompanied by honestly presented scriptural evidence.  I imagine this makes it more difficult them to brand you as an Apostate.  You tell me.

DEALING WITH THE AFTERMATH OF DISFELLOWSHIP

Hopefully some or all of your family is with you and you have been able to minimize the personal damage to your family life.  If not, you need to seek your support structure in your little study group and other brothers and sisters in Christ.  Remember that nothing is more important in life than your personal relationship with Jesus Christ and also remembering that on Paradise earth, if not before, someday your family will thank you for the stand you took and the example you set at great personal sacrifice.

Try to keep the communication lines open with family that have been pressured into rejecting you.  Assure them that you have not denied Jehovah and still believe that same teachings (if that is true).  You can quote scriptures listed at the end of this posting about liberty in Christ.  Here is a novel idea.  I have no idea if this will work.  Try referring them to the JW DVD “Faith in Action: From Darkness to Light.”  If you feel it is true, point out that you are making a move back to your roots and want to be like the original Bible Students, where there was congregational freedom and no organizational rule and oppression.

Even once disfellowshipped, if you can, continue with the weeknight study that you had announced on Sunday, over the next few weeks or months, when others think it is safe, you may find some sneaking into your study group to check it out.  Whatever material you are studying from, we believe that you must accept the Bible as the ultimate authority and you should have the humble attitude of honestly submitting to the teachings of scriptures, if you see them to be clear and yet different from what you had previously thought.  Don’t let your emotions sway your doctrinal determination.  Base your beliefs on the teachings of scripture after you have studied the evidence for opposing points of view.  Sad to say, in my opinion, I see too many Christians influenced by peer pressure and conformity.

BIBLE STUDENTS CAN HELP

Bible Students know where you are coming from.  We too had to make a decision to leave the organization after J.F. Rutherford took over and tried to take away our liberty in Christ.  We would like to help.  On our Friends website, under “Friends Links,” you can find links to some other Bible Student websites with lots of electronic study material.  Pick out what you like or what you agree with.  Many of our websites even offer hard copy books, literature, DVDs and CDs which are sold at cost and can be shipped to your home at a nominal cost.  At your request, Bible Student elders would be glad to visit and speak to you, or lead a Bible Study, even on a topic of your choice.  Consider us your friends.  We’re here if you need us, but we are determined not to get in your way or interfere with your own freedom and liberty to make your own choices.

The flagship book of the early Bible Students was the Divine Plan of the Ages.  A beautiful condensed easy to read version of this has recently been prepared.  It is called, “God’s Grand Plan of the Ages” and is sold under cost for only 50 cents a copy.  It is a great book, endorsed by all the Chicago Bible Student elders and we encourage you to order a copy and read it for yourself.

ELECTION OF ELDERS AND DEACONS

To prevent yourselves from falling into the trap of following man again, we suggest that your study group adopt the practice of the early church, to have regular (not one time) elections of Elders and Deacons.  When the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was originally founded, it was merely a publishing house supporting Bible Students with study materials.  Its founder, Pastor Russell, was against organizational control of Christian thoughts and beliefs, which was the impetus for his supporting the organizing the independent Bible study groups, which became the Bible Student movement.  Later, under the dictatorial control of JF Rutherford, the movement was transformed into an entirely new organization that tightly controlled the thoughts of its members.

A guidance manual, so to speak, on how to operate a study group according to the scriptures is outlined in Pastor Russell’s sixth volume of the Studies in the Scriptures series, called “The New Creation.”  You can find the chapter describing the election of Elders and Deacons here:

TROUBLE IN PARADISE

You are not accustomed to having group debates and making group decisions through vote in a business meeting (something Bible Students do regularly).  These business meetings are great for character development, since you will quickly find that everyone doesn’t always agree with you and too often, you are not getting your way.  It’s easier to just have the organization tell you what to do, but this is the price of freedom.  Be patient with your brethren.  Allow them to make the wrong decisions, as you see it, unless it so violates your Christian conscience that you cannot bear it; because at this point you are taking about splitting off into yet smaller groups.  Yet we recommend that the development of patience, understanding and submission for each other is generally a better way to go.

Eph 5:21 – Be in subjection to one another in fear of Christ.  NWT

1 John 3:14 – We know we have passed over from death to life, because we love the brothers.   NWT

The next big challenge will come when one of your aspiring study leaders is not elected as an Elder.  He may feel hurt, bitter and angry that the group doesn’t seem to understand what a great spiritual leader he will be.  To such we recommend the spirit of humility and submission, remembering that  “Pride is before a crash, and a haughty spirit before stumbling.” Prov 16:18, NWT.

IN 1933 THE BIBLE STUDENTS LEFT THE WATCHTOWER ORGANIZATION IN CHICAGO.

In 1933, Chicago Elders defied JF Rutherford’s forced takeover of the Chicago Bible Students.  Elder Irving Foss courageously announced that brethren not in harmony with these forced changes were invited to meet together the following Sunday at 1016 N. Dearborn Street… and thus the Chicago Bible Students were re-formed, maintaining their freedom and liberty in Christ.  You can read more from testimony of Bro. Irving Foss.

LIBERTY IN CHRIST / THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE

Gal 5:1 – Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.   NKJV

Gal 5:13 – For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.  NKJV

2Co 3:17 –  …where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.   NWT

John 8:31, 32 – And so Jesus went on to say to the Jews that had believed him: “If YOU remain in my word, YOU are really my disciples, and YOU will know the truth, and the truth will set YOU free.  NWT

50 comments to How can I leave the JWs without losing my family?

  • Marjo

    I think this shunning is taking bigger role in this JW society more and more. It seems to be in priority order list one. I feel like Governing body is manipulating it’s members. It is no more preaching about the Kingdom, it is just about shunning. Jesus didn’t teach this. He was teaching love and care, even if it was your enemy you should show your love.

    I have been thinking of this shunning rule what they use

    1 Cor 5:11
    But now I am writing to you to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother
    that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with a such man.

    I think Paul gave this rule for those whom were Anointed, not a regular members in the congregation. Because those whom were Anointed was suppose to be clean from their thoughts and mind and behavior.

    Paul also wrote letters for Galatians and Ephesians meaning the same but with different rules. He gave different advice for each congregation. Didn’t repeat just one that was written for Corinthians, what Governing body is doing. I think he knew behavior of each congregation, and wrote them in that base.

    I have been reading all these letters with a thought and came in that conclusion, that Paul was writing for Anointed ones. Please do correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s what I am thinking.

    • Just Stay Sweet and Good

      Marjo

      All of the first century Christians were anointed. Look at the very first words of all of the letters to the congregations and you will “see” who they are written to. Examples: Called ones, 12 tribes, holy ones, called and chosen, bride of Christ etc. There was just one class of believers. They were all running for the upward call.

    • Ted R.

      The Apostle Paul consistently writes for us to avoid bad association, not mixing in company with wrong doers. As Christians this makes sense. Would we want to invite a person into our homes or go out to eat with a person who has loose morals? Nowhere here does it say to completely shun these ones. We should try to help those who stray, keeping an eye on ourselves that we do not get drawn into their wrong doing. Jesus taught us compassion and forgiveness. Yes we hate the wrong, but we should never hate the wrongdoer. It is up to each individual christian to decide on his or her associations, not mandated by a self appointed governing body with Talmudic rules that go beyond scripture. If a family member presents an obvious danger to our family we may have to exercise tough love. That, however is up to the family involved who know the entire situation. No one should be able to tell a family member that they cannot associate with their mother, father, brother or sister!

  • TedR

    The organization continues to hit hard on how to treat disfellowshiped family members. This weeks Watchtower study article emphasizes that to be loyal to Jehovah’s disciplinary arrangements we should not even accept a text message, phone call, or email from a family member who is disfellowshiped or disassociated. This is interesting because the organization is committing obvious purgery. They have stated in court that someone who is disfellowshiped can still have normal family relationship just not spiritual. More obvious lies.

    • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

      TedR so what are they saying about those that walked away or that are considered apostate? Can you copy and paste maybe a crucial paragraph?

      • TedR

        I will do that tomorrow.

        • Ted R.

          Here is the informtion from the October Study edition:

          IF A FAMILY MEMBER LEAVES JEHOVAH 17 When a family member is disfellowshipped or he disassociates himself from the congregation, it can feel like the stab of a sword. How can you cope with the pain that this brings?
          18 Keep up your spiritual routine. Build yourself up by regularly reading the Bible, preparing for and attending Christian meetings, sharing in the field ministry, and praying for the strength to endure. (Jude 20, 21) But what if you feel that your heart is not in your activity, that you are just going through the motions? Do not give up! A good spiritual routine can help you to gain control of your thoughts and feelings. Consider the experience of the writer of Psalm 73. He had developed a wrong viewpoint and had become greatly troubled, but he was able to correct his thinking when he entered God’s place of worship. (Ps. 73:16, 17) Your faithfully worshipping Jehovah can help you to do the same.
          19 Respect the discipline of Jehovah. His arrangement can bring the best long term outcome for all, including the wrongdoer, even though the immediate effect is painful. (Read Hebrews 12:11.) For example, Jehovah instructs us to “stop keeping company” with unrepentant wrongdoers. (1 Cor. 5:11-13) Despite our pain of heart, we must avoid normal contact with a disfellowshipped family member by telephone, text messages, letters, e-mails, or social media.

          • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

            TedR thank you, I have sent a copy of this to Reveal.
            The governing body told the Australian Commission and Russia that they don’t restrict normal family relations with it’s members and their families.
            Pathological liars: Diagnosis. Diagnosing pathological lying can be difficult. … It is a stand-alone disorder as well as a symptom of other disorders such as psychopathy and antisocial, narcissistic, and histrionic personality disorders, but people who are pathological liars may not possess characteristics of the other disorders.
            Now I see why they insist children and women die from not taking blood transfusion, psychopaths and narcissistic behaviour goes along with pathological lying. (Men generally take the blood transfusion but never say anything)
            Some of the other persons are sending this out to lawyers and the different entities that need to see this. Here it is in writing.
            I don’t have that much to say, except if witnesses go along with this then they too fall in the category with the governing body because a twelve year old can see this is psychotic behaviour.
            I wonder what are they afraid of? People leave religions and change religions everyday. Why would another witness lose their joy and faith over that. Who are they to discipline any one and who disciplines the governing body?
            I can’t believe they put it in writing after lying to the Royal Australian Commission on Child Abuse and Russia.

            • Just Stay Sweet and Good

              Jacqueline….Also pair this information up with the Lawyer in Canada recently that argued for CCJW that they CCJW DO NOT SHUN the family only “restrict spiritual discussions” and you have a solid case of deception. Was that lawyer misinformed by the CCJW? If so he might want to make some sort of remedy for his representing the facts in a court of law.
              This information might be valuable to him in case he would like to make a retraction.

              • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                Just stay Sweet. Is that “Christian Congregation Jehovah witnesses”(CCJW)? I think the Canada group is presenting this is bold writing statements. How can you believe people that claim to be the only ones God speak with on the earth when they are so hateful and they lie to the authorities that God has allowed power to keep peace.
                I do say however if the governing body told them to jump off the cliff would they? If they are following these men’s edits to shun their family, then I say they will jump. This makes this group dangerous not just a man made organization.Hopefully witnesses will heed this warning. (New Living translation)
                Rev. 18:4 “Then I heard another voice calling from heaven, “Come away from her, my people. Do not take part in her sins, or you will be punished with her.” They will be saved but suffer by having homes taken and beatings like in Russia for this body of billionaires.
                Rev. 18:5 “For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds.” It is plain here it is the organizations not the people (individuals) that he is after but they will suffer if they don’t move away from the imploding building. Why suffer with this governing body that doesn’t care about their families.
                They live in their Ivory towers in Warwick, NY behind their gates and guards. They don’t care about those people family life just protecting their dwindling financial base. I know I sound passionate, more accurately angry, Like Samson they have impacted my family and the families of so many. These families God created to form a society and they work to tear it down. They have declared war on families within the witness body and the organization governed by the governing body. Samson was righteously indignant and asked God to hear him. Judges 14:18,19 then verses 27-30. The Philistines intending to make Samson suffer and ultimately to kill him. So he had the right to be angry and indignant at these philistines and their counter part the governing body.

                Judges 14:18,19 “Before sunset on the seventh day the men of the town said to him, “What is sweeter than honey? What is stronger than a lion?” Samson said to them, “If you had not plowed with my heifer, you would not have solved my riddle.”
                19
                Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power. He went down to Ashkelon, struck down thirty of their men, stripped them of their belongings and gave their clothes to those who had explained the riddle. Burning with anger, he went up to his father’s house.

            • greg (Bible Student)

              I don’t usually let my jackals loose, much less share my inner picture show, but my wife and I were discussing this topic and here’s kind of a recap.

              I can hear their (Gov. Body’s) next courtroom arguments already: “We obey ‘our God’. We don’t respect your (Governmental) authority. It’s perfectly acceptable for us to lie in Court because we’re *not* *really* *lying*. We’re protecting our people and our God and He will protect us from you.”

              Daniel’s three companions didn’t need to hide behind lies for God to protect them when they faced the image the king had made and the threat of the fiery furnace. And they didn’t need to lie to protect their God.

              I say, “Jehovah God is a God of Truth. He doesn’t need anyone to lie so he can hide behind it. If you’re in court and the court asks you if you promote shunning, ostracism, vilifying, and isolation, and if you sincerely believe that’s what God wants you to do, and you believe that God wants you to encourage your adherents to do it also, then at least OWN IT and tell the truth!”

              My wife says to me: “When organizations go sour and turn against humanity in this way, it only further prompts people to hate God, religion, and “other” people.”

              She adds, “What makes someone who blatantly uses deception within the court system think they are justified over and above spirit creatures (think: Satan) who are condemned for using deception, especially when people die as a result of this kind of deception?”

              Isn’t lying a disfellowshipping offence? Who is going to disfellowship the Governing Body? Shouldn’t we be SHUNNING the Governing Body? Or is this their shining example of imitating Christ in whom no deception was found?

              Ah, but now they have created the perfect self-fullfiling prophecy, and they can claim any subsequent “persecution” as “Proof!!” that God is on their side and the rest of the wicked world that dares to question this needs to–and therefore will be eternally destroyed by God.

              (Jackal rant mode is off now.) 🙂
              -greg

              • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                Greg, we exhale now. LOL The governing body has given up on preaching to anyone not interested in Jehovah witnesses. They keep telling the witnesses to hold on don’t give up.
                What sort of Christians gives up? He rejoices every day as he sees the day drawing near.
                These men are like the thief that gets caught and wants to take every body down with them. They want to destroy what God has built up in families, just like their father.
                In court it seems they just lie for the fun of it. They thumbed their nose at the California court system and and refuse to turn over their sex abuse records. Last report just stay sweet sent, they are fed up with these stubborn haughty men.
                I don’t think they know how to tell the truth anymore since they have practiced it for so long. In court with me one elder broke down and confessed. The judge asked was your leaders and lawyers aware this man would contradict them by confessing? At that trial that I won, I never believed or respected another word out of those men mouths. I only stayed to enforce the restraining order. But my eyes were wide open as I sat in the KH listening to their lies and intimidations of the friends from the platform.
                But the attorneys now have this in writing and not just hearing it from families.
                I personally don’t know any Christian religion that says “DO NOT HONOR YOUR FATHER OR YOUR MOTHER” but the governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses. (I use their full used name with regret but google picks up that precious name when added to witness.)

          • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

            TedR Br. Peter would liked to know if you have a link to the full article from the Web so he can read the context.
            I don’t go to their website, because I can’t stand to see some of the topics. If not he will read what you have posted, he said.
            Thank you

            • greg (Bible Student)

              In the interest of helping (hope I’m not “butting in”) here are a couple of the official JW website links:

              RTF of the Study Article Only:
              https://download-a.akamaihd.net/files/media_magazines/53/w_E_201710_03.rtf

              PDF of October 2017 Watchtower – Study Edition
              https://download-a.akamaihd.net/files/media_magazines/66/w_E_201710.pdf
              The article begins on Page 12.

              -greg

              • Peter K. (admin)

                Thanks Greg. I will take a look.

                • TedR

                  I just finished listening to the Circuit Overseers talk to the JW congregation. It was about loyalty to Jehovah (aka the Organization). The talk highlighted neutrality, not having any opinion regarding things going on in the world; and disfellowshiped relatives. He reiterated the WT article we are discussing. He made it clear that loyalty to God required cutting off normal relationships with disfellowshiped family members ,
                  He made an interesting statement. He said quote “we don’t police it but our relationship with Jehovah depends on our loyalty in this matter”. Evidently the GB is getting concerned over people’s eyes being opened. Loyalty is an ever increasing theme. He also used the scriptures concerning the sons of Korah to illustrate the need to be loyal even if it means cutting off family. It’s amazing how they twist scripture to prove their point.

                  • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                    TedR thanks for the you tube post. This obsession with dividing and destroying family relations is more like the events of the garden of Eden. Strange it involves lying and pitting offspring against their Father Jehovah. I guess he sees it works and Jesus said if you go for him that a sword would be there.
                    I never expected the governing body of Jehovahs witnesses to be a main player as the persecutors of Christians. If they can’t get the worship they destroy.

              • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

                Greg and TedR thanks for posting these links. When Jesus said he came to put a sword he wasnt saying Christians should break up families! The governing body isnt supposed to be the persecutor because people want to go to Christ! The divisions should be from outside the Christian Church especially in this latter day. That is the way it is in most parts of the world. Non Christian religions persecute and behead Christians.
                Those that leave the witnesses try to go about their business and live in peace. It is the witness part of the families that start a fight because the person stops worshiping the organization and the governing body. It is the governing body that issues the edict to not speak or answer text or phones calls from your mother, father,grandparents or children. They are fulfilling and viciously playing the role of satan. I can’t believe they are that mentally challenged. It is as if someone has taken over their brain.
                Who would return to something like this? What organization would want people that have separated from them to come back just for family? Only an organization that needs members on the roles to continue tax exempt status in most countries. It is also about the money hopefully begged from those in attendance. Also if they rear their young children in this the indoctrination process can seize their young minds. They have always separated witnesses from their non Jehovah witness relatives. They are one of the major persecutors of Christians in the free world. Frankly I can’t name anyone in the free world that goes after Christians to destroy their families. Does anyone know of any other persecutors of Christians in the free world?

      • TedR

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPHW7i1Kcvs&feature=share
        Just came across this on YouTube that goes right along with this discussion.

    • greg (Bible Student)

      Hi Ted,

      You know, they can lawyer-eze, and legal-eze, and argue over the precise wordings, and split hairs all they want but in the end, for me at least, it comes down to the fact that they are haggling like the hypocritical Pharisees over the letter of the law and totally missing the Spirit of the law.

      Sigh. I wonder what Jesus would say if he attended the Watchtower study this week? Would he put up his hand to comment? Or would he just walk away?…

      I think Matthew 9:9-13. At the end of that passage Jesus says, “…Go, then, and learn what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.” (NWT)

      -greg

      • Jacqueline (Bible Student)

        Greg so this means the family that was having regrets yesterday have now gone to the kingdom hall today and now they will again start harsh shunning.
        I am done with the abuse by family, with their up and down back and forth emotions. They worship their governing body as the directors of their faith, actions and family affairs.
        I will remain steady not changing my actions and interactions. The governing body of the so called Jehovah witnesses will no longer affect my emotions.
        If it means my family will jump on this band wagon of renewed shunning, I won’t be aware of it for I will proceed with my life as I have been since the last attack on me in my home space. I am done. I will interact with family that has indicated they and I are still family. Those that have barred me from their homes, I will respect that and not enter their homes for overnight stays as requested. If witnesses can’t see these men for what they are it is because they like this type of thing, shunning.
        I don’t buy totally that persons within the organization are misled because observing the a lot of witnesses you have to notice they don’t obey most of the other lifestyle things the governing body says. They have huge parties, they fight and use vile language with each other and dress inappropriately, commit adultery, fornication, just to name a few things that they ignore that the organization is strict about. So there is some error on the individuals themselves, they don’t have to follow these orders just my opinion on this.
        I was a witness for 62 years and every family member will vouch that I never stopped speaking to a disfellowshipped one. I have had many DF relatives live in my home when it was inconvient for them to remain in their parents or family homes. I spoke to DF openly in the kingdom to encourage them and no one ever called me out on it. So people can behave differently.
        One good thing about the average witness is they are obedient for a few weeks then the long arm of the governing body wears off.lol

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