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Is the Great Crowd to be in heaven or on earth?

Since the Levites picture the Great Crowd, the fact that the Levites had no inheritance in the Land (Deut 18:1-2; Josh 13:14, 33) illustrates that the Great Crowd has no inheritance on earth.  Actually, the Great Crowd is described as being in heaven (Rev 19:1).  You will recall that the Levites replaced the firstborn (Num 3:40-51) and the antitypical firstborn are described as enrolled in Heaven (Heb 12:23).  So all of the Anointed (antitypical firstborn) are enrolled in heaven, both the 144,000 and the Great Crowd.

The Great Crowd serves in the temple (Rev 7:15).  Since Jehovah and the Lamb are identified as the temple (Rev 21:22), the Great Crowd’s service in that temple must be in heaven, in the presence of Jehovah and Jesus.

As we saw in a prior question, the heavenly call is the only one spoken about for the Christian during the Gospel Age.  Hence, we expect that the Great Crowd will have a role of service in the heavenly government, submissive to Christ and His bride.

Since the Levites picture the Great Crowd, the fact that the Levites had no inheritance in the Land (Deut 18:1-2; Josh 13:14, 33) illustrates that the Great Crowd has no inheritance on earth.  Actually, the Great Crowd is described as being in heaven (Rev 19:1).

As we saw in a prior question, the heavenly call is the only one spoken about for the Christian during the Gospel Age.  Hence, we expect that the Great Crowd will have a roll of service in the heavenly government, submissive to Christ and His bride.

35 comments to Is the Great Crowd to be in heaven or on earth?

  • Keepha

    @Anonymous you may want to check the excellent world biblical commentary on this subject and look at this whole concept with fresh eyes… I suggest the following (http://www.amazon.com/Word-Biblical-Commentary-Vol-Luke/dp/0849902541/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1390941189&sr=8-20&keywords=world+biblical+commentary) and also try this link >http://www.biblicaltruthseekers.co.uk/uploadData/5-20.%20IDENTIFYING%20THE%20144,000.pdf

  • Keepha

    @Anonymous MIKRON is an Greek adjective and means small in these verses> Mt 13:32; Lk 12:32; Js 3:5; Rv 3:8. Small or young Mk 15:40. Little one, child Mt 18:6, 10, 14; cf. Ac 8:10; Rv 11:18. Humble Mk 9:42; mikro the one of least importance Mt 11:11. Little… 2 Cor 11:1, 16. mikron kai, soon John 16:16–19. mikro.. alone a short distance Mt 26:39; a short time Mk 14:70; John 13:33.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for the Info. Keepha, the reason why I asked is because the Jw’s and Bs’s believe the term “little flock”(Luke 12:32)is referring to the 144,000, when in reality, there’s no indication Jesus was making reference to that.

      • Peter K. (admin)

        Anonymous,

        When Jesus spoke about the Little flock (Luke 12:32), can we agree that Jesus was speaking about the anointed body members of Christ who are to be with Him in heaven?

        If so, then the question is, would the 144,000 in Rev 7 &14 be literal Jews from the literal 12 tribes or spiritual Israel, which would then be the same thing as the “little flock” that Jesus spoke of?  We think the latter for several reasons.

        1) Revelation is a highly symbolic book, so it would be quite odd if the 12 tribes were not symbolic and if the 144,000 literally were taken from the literal twelve tribes.

        2) Natural Israel long ago lost their tribal distinctions, so Jews today do not know what tribe or mix of tribes they are descended from.

        3) In Rev 7:3 the 144,000 are called “servants of our God.”  The anointed are servants of God and of Jesus (John 12:26; Heb 9:14; Matt 25:14).

        4) In Rev 14:3 we are told that the 144,000 have been “purchased from the earth” and “purchased from among men” vs 5. Of the anointed we read in 1 Cor 6:20; 7:23, “You were bought with a price.”

        5)  In Rev 14:4 the 144,000 are described as virgins.  The anointed are described as virgins in 2 Cor 11:2.

        6) In Rev 14:5 the 144,000 are called “first fruits.”  In James 1:16 the anointed are called “first fruits.”

        etc.

        • Anonymous

          Peter K.,in view of the setting as indicated in Luke 12:1, who was Jesus speaking to when he said the words “little flock”? Now to address comments 1-6:
          1)Yes Rev. is a highly symbolic book and I agree the 12,000 taken from every tribe is indeed symbolic
          2)I agree modern day Jews cannot trace their lineage back to the original tribes(which gives creedence to the 144,000 being symbolic)
          3)Millions of people put God first in their lives, therefore, can be be called servants of God

          4)Yes all of mankind have been purchased with the blood of Christ and those who are faithful followers of Jesus christ will rule with him in the heavens
          5)Yes they’re described as virgins(not literally of course. That also adds to 144,000 being a symbolic number.
          6)They are indeed “first fruits” because they’re the first of mankind to be resurrected to heaven.

  • Anonymous

    Does anyone know which Greek word is being used for “Little” at Luke 12:32 and Matt. 15:26?

  • Anonymous

    Remember: The chief priest is Jesus christ and the levites represent the under priest..the 144,000.

    • Anonymous

      Here’s some Info. on the Greek word Na’os……..Greek Word Pronunciation: na-OS
      Strong’s Number: 3485
      Goodrich/Kohlenberger Number: 3724
      Key Verse: “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit?” — 1 Corinthians 6:19

      Two Greek words are both translated by the one word temple. Each has a distinctive meaning and refers to a particular thing. Hieron comes from a word meaning “holy, hallowed, consecrated,” and was used of earthly things devoted or dedicated by man to a god. It was later used in the New Testament to designate the temple at Jerusalem. It includes the entire sacred enclosure with its porticos, courts, and other subordinate buildings. It is never used figuratively. Naos referred to the inner sanctuary, composed of the Holy of Holies and the Holy Place. Only priests could lawfully enter. Naos was used among heathen to denote a shrine containing the idol (Acts 17:24; 19:24). When referring to the Jerusalem temple, Josephus, Philo, the Septuagint, and the New Testament always distinguished hieron from naos. After describing the building of the naos by Solomon, Josephus wrote: “Outside the temple (naos) he constructed a sacred enclosure (hieron) in the form of a square.”

      Zacharias entered the naos to burn incense (Luke 1:9), the Holy Place where the altar of incense stood. The people were “outside” in the hieron. Christ taught in the hieron (Matthew 21:23), in one of the temple porches, also expelling money changers from the hieron, the court of the Gentles (Matthew 21:12). Judas portrayed his defiance and despair by entering into the naos itself (Matthew 27:5) which was reserved for priests alone and casting down before the priests the accursed blood money. It was the veil of the naos, the curtain separating the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place, that was torn at the time of Christ’s death (Matthew 27:51). The man of lawlessness takes his seat in the naos of God (2 Thessalonians 2:4). In every instance where temple is referred to in the book of Revelation, the word is naos. Christ spoke of the naos of His body (Matthew 26:61), just as Paul spoke of the body of Christians as the naos (1 Corinthians 3:16; 6:19), the inner sanctuary of the Holy Spirit. Jamieson, Fausset & Brown says: “The unseen, but much more efficient, Spirit of God in the spiritual temple now takes the place of the visible Shekinah in the old material temple. The whole man is the temple; the soul is the inmost shrine; the understanding and heart, the holy place; and the body, the porch and exterior of the edifice.”

    • Peter K. (admin)

      Anonymous – Thanks. Let me suggest three symbolisms:

      1)  High Priest (i.e. Aaron) = Jesus (Heb 3:1; Heb 8:1))

      2)  Other priests I.e. (Aaron’s sons) = bride of Christ / the 144,000 (1 Pet 2:9; Heb 6:20; 10:19)

      3) Tribe of Levi (other than the priesthood) = Great Crowd

      The fact that the Levites had no inheritance in the Land (Deut 18:1-2; Josh 13:14, 33) illustrates that the Great Crowd has no inheritance on earth.  Actually, the Great Crowd is described as being in heaven (Rev 19:1).  You will recall that the Levites replaced the firstborn (Num 3:40-51) and the antitypical firstborn are described as enrolled in Heaven (Heb 12:23).  So all of the Anointed (antitypical firstborn) are enrolled in heaven, both the 144,000 and the Great Crowd.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks Peter K. Why are the “great crowd” said to be guided to fountains of waters of life in Rev. 7:17? If they’re in heaven why would they need to be guided to waters of life since they’re at and with the source of life….Jehovah?

        • Peter K. (admin)

          Anonymous

          Jesus spoke of “rivers of living water” symboliclly. 

          John 7:37-38 NASB
          Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.  He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'”

          Revelation uses symbolism very heavily.

          Revelation 22:1 NASB
          Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,

          Since God’s throne is in heaven and is not a material throne like on earth, so the water is not literal water, but rather symbolic of the Truth of God’s Word, pure as crystle, without muddy traditions and false doctrines.

          Everyone who is to live forever at some point needs to drink of these waters of life.  To the degree that any of the Great Crowd has mixed Truth with error, that will be corrected by Jesus with these pure waters.

          • Anonymous

            Peter K., that makes sense….another question….Rev. 7:15 says “he will spread his tent over them” and 21:3 says “the tent of God is with mankind”…what exactly does that mean?

            • Peter K. (admin)

              Anonymous – The tabernacle is with men in the same sense that it was with the nation of Israel (Leviticus 26:11; Exodus 25:8). However, the Israelites were never permitted to go near it, only the priests and Levites. (Numbers 18:21-22). Israel represents the world of mankind.

              The Great Crowd is in the tabernacle in the same sense that the Levites served in the tabernacle (Numbers 3:6-8; 16:9-10). They support the priestly work, but they are all not part of the priesthood. (Numbers 16:10)

              Moses and Aaron were camped on the east side or entrance side of the Tabernacle. On the other three sides of the tabernacle, the tribe of Levi was divided into three camps.

              KOHATHITES: they were to bear all the vessels of the sanctuary, the Ark included. (Num 3:31; 4:15; Duet 31:25)

              GERSHONITES: had to carry the tent-hangings and curtains (Num 4:22-26)

              MERARITES: had the heavier burden of the boards, bars and pillars (Num 3:36)

              So the Great Crowd will be performing supporting work and services for the priesthood (Christ with body members, 144,000) if the future paradise earth kingdom.

              • Anonymous

                Thanks Peter K. for your most excellent replies! I hope I’m not burdening you with my question:)Here’s a thought…..I think it’s possible that the 144,000 and the great crowd are one in the same just pictured from two different points of view. You see John HEARD the number 144,000 then SAW a great crowd, just like in Chap. 9:16 John HEARD the the number of the calvary…two myriads of myriads but SAW horses with lion heads with people riding them. It’s just a literary tool being used(hearing then seeing,besides,who decides when a number is to be taken literally or symbolically in a SYMBOLIC book?

                • Peter K. (admin)

                  Anonymous – Thanks.  I enjoy the discussion and I am glad to hear your ideas.

                  Revelation 7:9 (NASB) “After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count…”  So it appears we can count spiritual Israel, but not the Great Crowd.

                  Let me suggest that for the most part, numbers in Revelation are literal, even if what they apply to is symbolic. For example, there are 7 trumpets, 7 churches and 7 seals. The fact that there are 7 of each is literal. However the trumpets, churches and seals are symbolic. Same with the 42 months (equals 1260 days). It is literally 1260. However, as in the Seventy Weeks prophecy of Daniel 9, a day is symbolic for a year. Therefore it would seem that the 144,000 are a literal number. Yet the Great Crowd could be millions (no fixed number).

                  • Anonymous

                    What about the two myriads of myriads of calvary mentioned in Rev. 9:16 is that a literal number? Also, Rev. 14:20 says…….”and blood came out of the winepress…..for a distance of a thousand six hundred furlongs”. is 1600 furlongs a literal number?

                    • Anonymous

                      Peter K.,before I forget, here’s another question: if the great crowd represents the ‘Levite helpers’ for the 144,000 why would they even be needed since there are already a huge numbers of angels that could serve that purpose?

                    • Peter K. (admin)

                      Anonymous,

                      In the earhly kingdom someone might say to an angel, “How can you help me?  You have never been human and experienced my troubles.  You just don’t understand what I have had to struggle with.”  On the other hand, of the millions in the Great Crowd there will be people who have gone through similiar experiences or worse.  They can honestly answer, “I know exactly what you are feeling.”  They would be of more help.

                      In our case, we can believe that Jesus can understand what we are going through.

                      Hebrews 4:15-16 (NASB) “For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”

                    • Peter K. (admin)

                      Anonymous, These are difficult passages, however we will share what seems reasonable to us.

                      In Revelation 14:20, we suggest that the “winepress” represents the final destruction of the worldly church (Babylon). Blood issuing forth from the winepress is the manifestation of retributive judgment avenging the former spilled blood of the saints (Rev 6:10).
                      One view of the 1,600 furlongs is that 40 is a number representing complete testing. When a number is squared (like the Jubilee), the symbolism seems to be the finality of finalities. So 40 squared (1600) would represent the most complete and final testing possible of Babylon (the counterfeit church systems).

                      Another application is that the statement, “by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs,” signifies a time measurement of 1,600 years reaching from A.D. 314, the birth of the Antichrist System, to 1914. This symbolism does not mean that the doom of Babylon was foretold to happen in 1914. Rather, the 1,600 furlongs denote that place on the stream of time at which the blood guilt of the false system reached “the point of ot return in the verdict of its future complete desolation.

                      The time measurement of the 1,600 furlongs coincides with, and is corroborated by, the following types or pictures: (1) The Gentile lease of power expired in 1914, predicated upon the “seven times” (7 x 360) mentioned four times (4 empires) in Leviticus 26. (2) The “mene, mene, tekel, uphasrsin” handwriting on the wall in Daniel 5:25, if reduced to gerahs (1,000 + 1,000 + 20 + 500), equals 2,520 years which, when measured from 606 B.C., the year the typical kingdom was removed from Israel, ends in A.D.1914.

                      In Revelation 9:16, We have mentioned armies of horsemen numbering 200,000,000. These “armies” are, apparently, the third of mankind which have become Protestant. They are horsemen because they are being carried foreword by their new and exciting doctrines. This verse says that the John class “heard the number of them.” This statement is true as witnessed by the chart in THE DIVINE PLAN OF THE AGES, page 16. This chart, published by the London Missionary Society, shows us that at the beginning of the Laodicean period, the world numbers approximately 116 million Protestants. Adding the number since the days of Luther, 200 million of them during the Philadelphia period.

              • Anonymous

                Peter K. WOW! You really know your stuff!! Ok it all sounds reasonable, I suppose I should be concerned about things that aren’t so deep huh? thanks for your patience. So, how can I explain to a Jw that the great crowd is in heaven?

              • Anonymous

                Peter K.,personally,I think that after this present system has finally reached its end,a lot of people are going to realize what has happened and will be willing to serve God as never before, of course, the Jws think that you have to be one of them or else you’ll be bird food.

                • Peter K. (admin)

                  Anonymous  – I agree with you.

                  Phil 2:9-11 – EVERY knee should bow…and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

                  Rev 15:4 – all nations shall come and worship before You..”   NKJV

                  Dan 7:14, 27 – “ALL peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him”  His kingdom is everlasting

                  Isa 66:23 – all flesh come to worship before me, saith Jehovah.  ASV

                  Ps 22:27 – “ all the families of the nations Shall worship before You.”   NKJ

                  VPs 138:4 – “All the kings of the earth shall praise You, O LORD “   NKJV

                  Ps 72:8,11,17 – “all kings shall fall down before Him; All nations shall serve Him”  NKJV

                  Rev 11:15 – “kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord… He shall reign forever”

                  Rev 21:23-24 – “the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings … bring their glory into it.”  

                  Mal 1:11 “My name shall be great among the Gentiles; In every place incense shall be offered to” God (see also Ps 86:9; Ps 65:1-2; Zech 2:11; Zech 9:10)

                  Rev 5:13 – “And every creature … heard I saying, Blessing, and honor…to… the Lamb for ever” AKJV

                • Jacqueline

                  Anonymous, I agree with you also. This is what the love of God is, that the precious blood of his SON has merit and is powerful. He can defeat the devil and can take charge of this earth and save ALL MEN that want to run with him instead of the devil’s systems.
                  Jehovah knows when a sparrow dies, so I know he can remember all his children’s name and tent with believing ones after judgement day of a 1000 yrs. Armageddon is not judgement day for individuals, it is judgement day for the governments, church systems and all the social orders that will exist at the time it happens.
                  It stills my heart to know that he is a just God and haven’t left all salvation in the hands of 10 rich men in New York City.

  • eu acredito que a grande multidão viverá aqui mesmo na terra…
    evangelizers borderless / http://noticias-do-reino.comunidades.net

    stay in peace
    I believe this is the correct translation: Jacqueline

    I believe that the great crowd will live here on earth …
    evangelizers borderless / http://noticias-do-reino.comunidades.net

  • humbleman

    Hi Bro Bret. i believe Isaiah 25 would be talking of the nations that are converted once the wrath of God has passed. Zephaniah 3 v 8-9 Zechariah 14 v 16-19. the great crowd will be justified before that, the nations who will come to the light of the new Jerusalem. will not serve in the temple sanctuary (NAOS) this would only be for the 144000 and there levite companions psalms 45 v 13-15

  • Bret

    On earth is where Great Crowd will be located. The last verse in chapter 7 of revelation indicates this because it is same vision as revelation 21:3,4 where death and mourning and pain is no more this is what is experienced on earth not heaven and also thie location is confirmed by the prophet Isaiah in chapter 25 verse 8 where he describes same vision that parallels revelation 7:17. And Isaiah describes the location as earth.

  • Ken

    Welcome Dieter, when you said:”The Great Tribulation had been recopgnized by the Witnesses as Israel’s, but then transferred that to a much later day upon wicked mankind. Alas, that GT is only and exclusinvely uon Israel it is the greatest in severity and duration. Nothing to do with mankind who have inherited nothing from Adam except not being monkeys”.Did you mean that only the Jews inherited sin from Adam and not the rest of mankind?

  • Just letting you know at the outset that I am an disfellowshipped apostate after 50 years, because I no longer recognize the faithful and discrete slave as a Jehovah appointed arbitrator. There are none on earth of whatever denominational flavor or bent. I say this to prevent some hurting their consciences if they were to continue reading. Still a friend of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I am sadly not one of theirs. I owe them a lot. Grew my spiritual milkteeth under their tutorage. Covered most subjects on my site straight from Scripture: sanctifyname.com.
    Regarding the Great Crowd, they are those of the 144000 anointed still alive at the time of Christ gathering his chosen ones into and to be the Kingdom Matthew 24:29-31. Not even Jehovah knows their number since He does not control their faithful obedience and length of their lives. Impossible to number does not mean large and never has. It just indicates that for whatever reason a definitive number cannot be accurately established and is therefore impossible.
    Corinthians 15:51-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-15 as well as 5th seal Revelation 6:9-11 combine to document that those of the anointed already dead and those still alive at the Kingdom’s establishment and takeover, as it were, are raised to meet their Lord at the same time. Common denominator are washed robes and and entry into the heavenly city Rev. 22:14, where most bibles read robes and not commandments quite correctly, since none are now under commandments, the law having terminated at Jesus’ death. Please spend time and meander through my website. It wil both shock and free you.
    The Great Tribulation had been recopgnized by the Witnesses as Israel’s, but then transferred that to a much later day upon wicked mankind. Alas, that GT is only and exclusinvely uon Israel it is the greatest in severity and duration. Nothing to do with mankind who have inherited nothing from Adam except not being monkeys. That is/was simply a powergrab by religion. No sooner had Jesus come to free Israel from their prison of guilt and debt to Jehovah for their transgressions that the dear believers were again placed into the straight-jacket of religious requirements, laws and regulations while the carrot of salvation was dangled tantalisingly before them. Only Israel had to be saved, because only Israel had sinned against and transgressed a law only they had. Only they faced permanent termination. Jesus, their final Atonement and second Passover lamb saved them. Please study the meaning and use of the three different Greek words generally translated world, doing so in contexts broad and immediate. The NWT will be very helpful in this regard in conjunction with Strong’s definitive Bible Dictionary and will go a long way to assist anyone wishing to know accurately. And PLEASE take note of all the plural pronouns used by all the Episteliers.

    • Jacqueline

      Hello Dieter and welcome, we don’t have class distinction here (smile). Disfellowshipped Apostates are welcomed (:). Many brothers are dissecting your comments to answer and I am going over to your website to take a look. Thank you for making us aware of it. Take Care Br. or Sis.
      PS: Dieter now I know you are male and from the land down under.

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