Just as the Anointed 144,000 (the Little Flock) are selected “out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation” (Rev 5:9 NWT), so are the Great Crowd (Rev 7:9). Neither of these two groups are the world, but they are both taken “out of” the world. This larger group (the world) from which these two classes are taken “out of” is described in Daniel 7:14, ” And to him there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him. His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin” (NWT).
This larger group is also described as the “nations” who live in the city (Rev 21:24), yet the Great Crowd is never said to enter the city, but “…they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple;” (Rev 7:15 NWT). The Great Crowd is brought before the Jehovah’s throne for service. In contrast, the world of mankind (both raised from the dead and surviving Armageddon) are brought before the throne for judgment during the thousand year kingdom (Rev 20:12; Matt 25:31,32; Dan 7:9,10). The Great Crowd is not the world of mankind on Paradise Earth.
The evidence points to three distinct kingdom classes 1) the Anointed Little Flock of 144,000, 2) the Great Crowd and 3) the world of mankind.
The fact that both the World (Rev 22:14) and Great Crowd (Rev 7:9) are described as wearing white robes does not prove they are the same group. The Anointed 144,000 have white robes too (Rev 3:5; 19:8 –note that justification and righteousness are from same Greek root word Strong’s 1344). All who become justified have white robes, because white robes are a symbol of justification/righteousness (Isa 61:10). Anyone without a white robe (justification) has no standing with God (Matt 22:11-13). At the time of the earthly Paradise, the world will “wash” their robes (Rev 22:14 – present tense in Greek), but the Great Crowd will already have clean robes (Rev 7:14 “washed” – Greek past tense).
The 144,000 are the group of sealed anointed as a whole.
The “Great Crowd” are a sub-group of the 144,000, who are singled out and designated as the sealed anointed who went through the Great Tribulation. Not all of the 144000 go through that, but only this subgroup.
According to this impression of mine, in response to a reader’s question, I wrote the following article:
First we see that the “great crowd” is portrayed in Rev.7:9 as being “dressed in white robes”. I easily conclude that these are the last anointed to be sealed near the end.
Why?
Rev.19:8 reads: “Yes, it has been granted to her to be arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, for the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones”. This “administration” of “holy ones” is clearly identified in many places, but you can read some of this at Eph.1:1-23.
Therefore, Rev.7:14 identifies these ones as the particular sealed anointed, that endured the Great Tribulation…Satan’s great test of loyalty, slyly designed to prevent these last ones from being sealed.
Whether or not this is your understanding, you do not say, but since you brought it up and it might involve the other answers, I thought it best to establish it. Okay…the next sentence…very tangled. I’ll try dealing with a phrase at a time.
Yes, the 144,000 are the only ones going to heaven.
Try to incorporate the additional fact that they are not going to remain there (this will be covered in my Psalm 45 article, as pearl-psalm45.blogspot.com, when it is finished).
Next, how it relates to Rev.20:4,5. Perhaps if I explain what this scripture means, it will help you have truthful pieces, in order to construct a clearer puzzle picture.
Rev. 20:4-5 reads:
“And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.”
First, “And I saw thrones”…
Those sitting on these thrones are the 144,000. A throne indicates a kingship.
2Tim.2:12 reads, “if we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings; if we deny, he also will deny us”. “We”, means the chosen.
Next, Rev. 20:4-5 states that “power of judging was given them”…
1 Cor.6:2 reads:
“Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”
Then, Rev.20:4-5 describes this group….
“Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God”
Rev.6:9 reads:
“And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have.”
(Revelation 11:3) “And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”
(Revelation 11:7) And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them.” (also Rev.13:7)
Why does the wild beast kill them?
Rev.13:15 reads:
“And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and *cause to be killed* *all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast*”…
Which brings us back to Rev. 20:4…
“those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand.”
Next Rev. 20:4-5 reads:
… “And they came to life”…
This is the part that I think may help with your overall question.
The scriptures speak of those “living” and those “dead”.
In our limited, physical experience, we have our own understanding of what it means to be “living” or “dead”. Our reference is physical. We are not spirit. So to us, “living” is physically alive; and “dead” is physically dead.
Try to remember that Jehovah God has the power of both physical and spiritual, life and death. To Him and Christ, the physical is not worthy of consideration. Why? Because Jehovah can at any moment, remove the breath of life from us and we die. He also can effortlessly raise able bodied men from dust or dry bones.
It is our spiritual standing with God that determines the state of our life. Those shown his favor and mercy, are therefore, guaranteed life. Such life could not be more secure. Yet those who are condemned by him, though breathing, are in a sense, already as good as dead.
Let us get scriptural proof for this concept…
Matt. 22:31-32:
Jesus said, “As regards the resurrection of the dead, did YOU not read what was spoken to YOU by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob’? He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living.”
Can you see here that although Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are physically dead, they are considered alive by God and Christ? There life is assured due to their faithful course.
Similarly, Rom. 14:9 reads:
“For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living”.
As God is a God of the living (Matt.22:31-32 above); Jesus is a Lord of the dead and the living both. This is because he will serve the needs of both, in the hopes that they all may attain to life, through the provision of his ransom (“to this end Christ died”).
Luke 15:21,24,32:
“…but we just had to rejoice and enjoy ourselves, because this your brother was dead and came to life, and he was lost and was found.”
The Prodigal son was not literally dead, but he was lost in his sinful course. Leading into this illustration, Jesus explains what “lost” means…
“‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost’. I tell you that thus there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who have no need of repentance”. Clearly according to Jesus, “dead” means lost in sin. Alive (found) means repentant of their sins.
Matt. 8:21-22:
“Then another of the disciples said to him: “Lord, permit me first to leave and bury my father.” 22 Jesus said to him: “Keep following me, and let the dead bury their dead.”
Can you see here that physically dead people cannot bury anyone? Jesus was speaking here about those with little prospect of life, as being more fit to handle pointless pursuits. This disciple, who was speaking with Christ, had a greater opportunity before him. He was in the presence of Christ and could receive “life”. Jesus tried to reason with him by revealing the potential benefits of following Christ, versus “dead works”.
Just these two of many scriptures reveal that God and Christ see “death” and “life” very differently than we do. Those physically alive can be considered dead by God. Those physically dead can be considered alive. Why? Because the life of the condemned is indeed brief. The sleeping death of the righteous is momentary.
In harmony with this truth, Rev.20:12 reads:
“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne…”. Physically dead do not stand. So this scripture relates that those physically resurrected but not yet “living” in God’s eyes, are standing before God. Can you see these things?
How do the anointed receive this standing of “life”?
Consider James 1:12; 2Pet.1:2; 1John1:1-3; 3:14 also
(Revelation 2:7) “Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’
(Revelation 2:10) “Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
And also Rev.20:6; 21:6; 22:19.
Rev.20:4,5 continues:
“And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.” This Thousand Year period is that Judgment Day.
Rev. 20:12 reads:
“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And *the dead were judged* out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.
Let us see something about this thousand year period…
Rev.20:3 reads:
“And he (Jesus) hurled him (Satan) into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.”
So, we see two occurrences during this “thousand years”. Scrolls (knowledge) are opened (understood). Also, Satan’s deceptions are eliminated for that period, so that the imparting of this divine knowledge is not interfered with, by Satan’s “misleading” efforts (Rev.12:9; 20:10). During this thousand year period that provides the understanding that leads to life; the “dead” who accept and follow it, will be brought to “life”.
As Rev.20:4,5 continues:
“The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.”
So we see that, considered righteous and donned in white robes; the sealed anointed receive life upon their spiritual resurrection previous to the commencement of the Thousand Year Judgment Day. The rest of sinful mankind, take time to wash their sins away in the blood of the Lamb. They must avail themselves of the knowledge being provided during that time. If they do, and they obey it, they too will receive life, sinlessness, and the restored condition that Adam originally enjoyed before his sin.
Next you raise 1Cor. 15:23.
Verse 22 goes nicely with the subject we just finished:
“For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.” Perhaps you have deeper understanding of this now. The sealed anointed are not made alive in the flesh, are they? Yet they are still made alive. So this is not speaking of physical life, but spiritual. All will eventually receive this endless life, whether in spirit bodies, or in flesh on earth.
1Cor.15:23,24:
“But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.”
This refers to the resurrection to everlasting life where one will never die again.
First, we know Christ was the firstborn from the dead, in the sense that he would never die again. Although others were resurrected before his, they died again (1Kings 17:17-24; Acts 9:36-42; John 11:38-44).
On the contrary, Christ was resurrected for all time. But, he was the “first among many brothers”…
(Romans 8:29) “because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers”
(Acts 26:23) “that the Christ was to suffer and, as the first to be resurrected from the dead, he was going to publish light both to this people and to the nations.”
(Colossians 1:18) “and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16) “because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first”
…so, those “in union with Christ” (the sealed anointed) will be raised to “life” (meaning no second death), first. These are the ones who “belong to the Christ”.
Those offered life during the Thousand Year Judgment Day, will still be liable to the second death, should they prove unworthy of life during that period. We know that when Satan is let out of the Abyss after the thousand years are finished, indeed, many will follow Satan and die…
(Revelation 20:7-9) Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma′gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them.
So we see it is true, those who are not anointed, nor part of the “first resurrection”, do not receive life forever (“come to life”), until this final test is over, or, “until the Thousand Years were ended” (Rev. 20:5).
Do you see this?
After this final test, 1Cor. 15:24 “Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.”…
Yes, when Satan, death, and all those who do not truly love God (despite his gracious generosity during Judgment Day) are brought to their end, Jesus will give the restored Creation back to Jehovah. God’s original purpose…to be the King of all sinless creation, will be realized.
All the dead, the “righteous and the unrighteous”…”all those in the Memorial tombs” will be resurrected well before the Thousand Years ends (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15). Being resurrected, and “coming to life” are two different things, as hopefully, you can now see.
The word “resurrection”, literally means “to stand again”. Therefore when we read, “I saw the dead…*standing* before the throne” it is clear…these ones are physically resurrected and alive. Yet, these same ones have not yet received everlasting “life”, so they are still considered spiritually “dead”.
(note: not all will be resurrected. Those considered too wicked for reform, are sent to Gehenna directly from this life (Matt.23:33;10:28; Mark 9:43).
In summary:
The “righteous” are resurrected first into spirit beings to rule with Christ (Rev. 19:8).
The “unrighteous” are the rest…survivors and resurrected ones who, during the Thousand Years, receive the instruction and opportunity that leads to perfection, sinlessness, and everlasting life.
At the end of the Thousand Years, Satan will test every one of these perfect, educated individuals. Afterward, those who pass this test (originally brought upon perfect Adam and Eve), will “come to life” everlastingly. Those who fail will suffer divine execution, to be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna), the “second death”, never to be seen again.
(Revelation 20:14-15) And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.”
I sincerely hope that my explanation was understandable to you. I also hope that what I covered here touched upon all your questions. As best as I can understand your question, I think these scriptures should cover it.
If not, please just clarify the point in question for me.
Thank you for your question.
Jehovah’s spirit bless you,
Pearl
This same person followed up with additional questions, especially regarding the scriptural validity of persons living on earth. This included the idea that no one is on earth during the Thousand Year Judgement Day.
My reply is as follows:
First question: How do we know that people will be on the earth during the Thousand Year Reign?
Here are a few of the many scriptures to reason on regarding that indication…
Rev.20:6; Rev.5:10 Where is the Millennial rulership of the Kingdom Heirs exercised?
Psalm 37:29, “The righteous themselves will *possess the earth*, And they will reside *forever* upon it.”
Ask yourself, what possession are the “righteous promised?
How long will they possess it?
What is your answer?
Is this speaking of this world as we know it? Is it not true that in the present world, the righteous are not the ones with the power and ownership of the earth?
Do you then conclude that this scripture reveals the righteous possessing the earth, after the Kingdom begins it’s rule over the earth?
This is in harmony with, and therefore is reinforced by the promise made to Abraham. Consider what he was told concerning his “seed”:
(Genesis 13:15-16) “because *all the land* at which you are looking, to you and to your seed I am going to give it *until time indefinite*. 16 And I will constitute your seed like the dust particles of the earth, so that, if a man could be able to count the dust particles of the earth, then your seed could be numbered.
Here we see that God’s promise to give Abraham’s seed all the land UNTIL TIME INDEFINITE, has not yet occurred. This inheritance is yet future.
(Genesis 22:17-18) I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. 18 And *by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves* due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.
Again, we have not yet seen this fulfillment either…that of ALL NATIONS being blessed by means of “Abraham’s seed”.
These promises were confirmed to Jacob:
(Genesis 28:13-14) And, look! there was Jehovah stationed above it, and he proceeded to say: “I am Jehovah the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac. The land upon which you are lying, to you I am going to give it and to your seed. 14 And your seed will certainly become like the dust particles of the earth, and *you will certainly spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south*, and by means of you and by means of your seed all the families of the ground will certainly bless themselves”.
Here we see the extent of “all the land”, as conveyed as “to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south”.
(Genesis 48:4) And he went on to say to me, ‘Here I am making you fruitful, and I will make you many and I will transform you into a congregation of peoples and I will give this land to your seed after you *for a possession to time indefinite*.
Again we see this inheritance for the “righteous” of Abraham’s seed, The North, the South, the East, and the West… all directions, being given just as is stated in Psalm 37:29…forever.
But who is this seed? It is primarily Christ that receives this inheritance…
(Galatians 3:16) Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. It says, not: “And to seeds,” as in the case of many such, but as in the case of one: “And to your seed,” who is Christ.”.
Did Jesus inherit the earth as the heir of Abraham?
(Matthew 28:18) “And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth”.
So we see Jesus did inherit the entire earth.
But we read that the “righteous” will possess the earth! Does Jesus share this inheritance?
(Galatians 3:29) Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, *YOU are really Abraham’s seed*, *heirs with reference to a promise*”. What promise would that be?
The promise to receive “all the land”, and “bless” “all the Nations”.
When the above scripture says, “You are really Abraham’s seed”, was this speaking of Jews?
(Romans 9:6-8) However, it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who [spring] from Israel are really “Israel.” 7 Neither because they are Abraham’s seed are they all children, but: “What will be called ‘your seed’ will be through Isaac.” 8 That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed.
Here we see that the heirs are the “children of God”, “through Issac”, meaning Christ. His “children” are through “a promise”.
(Galatians 3:26-29) YOU are all, in fact, sons of God *through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus*. 27 For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] *in union with Christ Jesus*. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, *YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise*.”
The scriptures clearly convey that this inheritance of the earth, is through Christ. It belongs to those who are “baptized into Christ”. Those baptized “into Christ”, become part of his body. Again, these are the anointed, the seed of Abraham.
Therefore, since Abraham was promised the literal earth, Christ inherited the literal earth, the the “righteous” are to inherit the literal earth…..forever. Why then, would they be resurrected to be in Heaven forever? They are not.
But we are not done. More scriptures…
What about during the Thousand Years?
(Revelation 21:2-3) I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down *out of heaven* from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is *with mankind*, and he will *reside with them*, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.
We are told that “New Jerusalem” (Abraham’s seed), comes out of heaven to be with mankind. (literal Greek for “mankind” is; of the earth, of the dust) Those who LEAVE HEAVEN to be with physical men, are then, no longer in heaven (out of heaven). Where then, are they? Can you reason on this?
If you still have your doubts, lets go to Rev. 20:7-9:
“Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the EARTH…
The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the EARTH and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.”
Where does Satan go as soon as he is let out of his prison? We are told he wants to mislead nations “in the four corners of the EARTH”. Therefore, if you are reasonable, you know that he is rushing upon earthly inhabitants, “As soon as the Thousand Years” conclude.
Not only do we see the earth inhabited at the conclusion of this era, we see that the “holy ones”, and the “beloved city” of Kingdom heirs, are also among mankind. This is consistent with being told that they came “out of heaven” as God’s “tent” to reside with mankind. What for? Remember…to bless them (Gen.22:18; Rev.21:3,4).
They are the means by which the scrolls are opened (life-giving knowledge provided), and through whom the provisions of life (fruit and leaves from “trees of life”) will be provided.
In Rev.ch.22, it is explained how Abraham’s seed blesses those on earth. They are depicted as “trees of life”. Those of all the Nations who eat of their fruit and leaves, are “cured”. (This is the dead being brought to life.) This occurs during the Thousand Year Judgement Day, when those “scrolls are opened”. The knowledge contained in those “scrolls”, is that “fruit and leaves”. Those who take in, accept, and obey that knowledge, “come to life” by the end of the Thousand Years.
At Rev. 21:5, it reads:
“Look! I am making all things new.”
In harmony with this, at 2 Peter 3:13:
“But there are new heavens and a *NEW earth* that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.”
God says that he is making all things new, including the earth. When he says that the “former things have passed away”, does he mean that they no longer exist? Being made new, applies in the same way to the earth, as it does to the other things mentioned…
In Rev.21:4, the things done away with are the things out of harmony with God’s loving purpose; tears, death, mourning, outcry, and pain”. This does not mean that all human emotion will be destroyed…only the bad parts of it. In the same was, a “new earth” will not mean that the earth is destroyed…only the bad parts of it.
God would not give an inheritance to his Sons that was defective. The inheritance (earth, inhabitants) need to be “made new”, made free of defect. The Thousand Years is the period during which this will occur.
(Isaiah 45:18) For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, *who formed it even to be inhabited*: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
Here Jehovah states his purpose for the earth…to be inhabited. This appears in harmony with all the above scriptures.
If you have a scripture that indicates that the future of ALL mankind is heavenly, send it to me.
Regarding your citing of Matt.22:29,30…it is thoroughly covered at an article, located at pearl-marriageinthekingdom.blogspot.com
That article also covers 1Cor.15:35.
Isaiah 65:20,…This is speaking of the Thousand year Judgement Day. This description is referring to a spiritual condition. During that time, all will have the opportunity to attain spiritual maturity. Those who do not appreciate this provision will be removed, regardless of their age or maturity of knowledge. What will matter is if they are choosing to sin (“and as for the sinner, although a hundred years of age he will have evil called down upon him.”). If they are choosing to sin during this period of God’s graciousness, they will die. Remember…” Rev.20:5 (“The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.”) I have already explained to you that this “life” is referring to eternal life.
To quote you,
“Rev. 22:14, says that whoever wash their robes may gain entrance into the city by the gates. The great crowd has washed their robes clean in Christ’s blood, and the city we are talking about here is “heavenly Jerusalem.” (Rev.7:9; Rev.21:2)
Yes, this is just what I said in the last answer. The “great crowd” does go to heaven. They are the heirs with Christ, proven by the scriptures already given. These are part of the group that “blesses” “all the Nations” on earth, when they “come down out of heaven”, during the Thousand Year Judgement Day.
You said,
“Now what about the great crowd (If you can show me a scripture that says they will be ressurected ‘during’ the thousand years)
I wonder if you read my last answer. I did not say this. They are resurrected in the first resurrection… as I said, before the Thousand Years commences.
You said,
“surely all Jehovahs witnesses that die before armageddon, must also be considered alive in Gods eyes, and they cannot be the ones standing before the throne in Rev.20:12, as the bible describes them as being dead (in Gods eyes).
I would never make this claim as a certainty…that Jehovah’s Witnesses are considered alive by God. You are mistaken. We are told that any who receive the mark of the beast on their forehead, are NOT written in the Lamb’s scroll of life. No one is “alive” until the Thousand Years ends (Rev.20:5), unless they were part of the “first resurrection”. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not part of the first resurrection, unless they are among the sealed anointed.
If you would like to learn more about this condemning mark of the Wild Beast, you can read:
pearl-wildbeast.blogspot.com
As far as why the scriptures focus on the spiritual resurrection, you can find the answer at pearl-marriageinthekingdom.blogspot.com
You said,
“To say that people are going to enter the 1000 years and just not age or die anymore is ‘wishfull’ thinking ,but its not what the bible says.”
Are you thinking that I am saying this? Then you really did not read my previous answer. Did you not read that those who side with Satan *at the end of the Thousand Years* are executed? Did you not read that eternal life is not attained until the thousand years ends? (Rev. 20:5). That is because during that period, as you brought up in Isa.65:20, those who do not pursue divine education and obey it, will die during this period, as I have already explained in depth.
You said, “If Jesus corrected people (pharisees) who were teaching an earthly ressurection”.
Jesus was not speaking to pharisees who believed in an earthly resurrection in this account. He was speaking to Sadducees who did not believe in resurrection at all. How this effected Jesus’ answer is covered in the article I recommended.
4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com
The 144,000 are the group of sealed anointed as a whole.
The “Great Crowd” are a sub-group of the 144,000, who are singled out and designated as the sealed anointed who went through the Great Tribulation. Not all of the 144000 go through that, put only this subgroup.
According to this impression of mine, in response to a reader’s question, I wrote the following article:
First we see that the “great crowd” is portrayed in Rev.7:9 as being “dressed in white robes”. I easily conclude that these are the last anointed to be sealed near the end.
Why?
Rev.19:8 reads: “Yes, it has been granted to her to be arrayed in bright, clean, fine linen, for the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy ones”. This “administration” of “holy ones” is clearly identified in many places, but you can read some of this at Eph.1:1-23.
Therefore, Rev.7:14 identifies these ones as the particular sealed anointed, that endured the Great Tribulation…Satan’s great test of loyalty, slyly designed to prevent these last ones from being sealed.
Whether or not this is your understanding, you do not say, but since you brought it up and it might involve the other answers, I thought it best to establish it. Okay…the next sentence…very tangled. I’ll try dealing with a phrase at a time.
Yes, the 144,000 are the only ones going to heaven.
Try to incorporate the additional fact that they are not going to remain there (this will be covered in my Psalm 45 article, as pearl-psalm45.blogspot.com, when it is finished).
Next, how it relates to Rev.20:4,5. Perhaps if I explain what this scripture means, it will help you have truthful pieces, in order to construct a clearer puzzle picture.
Rev. 20:4-5 reads:
“And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them, and power of judging was given them. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.”
First, “And I saw thrones”…
Those sitting on these thrones are the 144,000. A throne indicates a kingship.
2Tim.2:12 reads, “if we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings; if we deny, he also will deny us”. “We”, means the chosen.
Next, Rev. 20:4-5 states that “power of judging was given them”…
1 Cor.6:2 reads:
“Or do YOU not know that the holy ones will judge the world?”
Then, Rev.20:4-5 describes this group….
“Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God”
Rev.6:9 reads:
“And when he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness work that they used to have.”
(Revelation 11:3) “And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”
(Revelation 11:7) And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them.” (also Rev.13:7)
Why does the wild beast kill them?
Rev.13:15 reads:
“And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and *cause to be killed* *all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast*”…
Which brings us back to Rev. 20:4…
“those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand.”
Next Rev. 20:4-5 reads:
… “And they came to life”…
This is the part that I think may help with your overall question.
The scriptures speak of those “living” and those “dead”.
In our limited, physical experience, we have our own understanding of what it means to be “living” or “dead”. Our reference is physical. We are not spirit. So to us, “living” is physically alive; and “dead” is physically dead.
Try to remember that Jehovah God has the power of both physical and spiritual, life and death. To Him and Christ, the physical is not worthy of consideration. Why? Because Jehovah can at any moment, remove the breath of life from us and we die. He also can effortlessly raise able bodied men from dust or dry bones.
It is our spiritual standing with God that determines the state of our life. Those shown his favor and mercy, are therefore, guaranteed life. Such life could not be more secure. Yet those who are condemned by him, though breathing, are in a sense, already as good as dead.
Let us get scriptural proof for this concept…
Matt. 22:31-32:
Jesus said, “As regards the resurrection of the dead, did YOU not read what was spoken to YOU by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob’? He is the God, not of the dead, but of the living.”
Can you see here that although Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are physically dead, they are considered alive by God and Christ? There life is assured due to their faithful course.
Similarly, Rom. 14:9 reads:
“For to this end Christ died and came to life again, that he might be Lord over both the dead and the living”.
As God is a God of the living (Matt.22:31-32 above); Jesus is a Lord of the dead and the living both. This is because he will serve the needs of both, in the hopes that they all may attain to life, through the provision of his ransom (“to this end Christ died”).
Luke 15:21,24,32:
“…but we just had to rejoice and enjoy ourselves, because this your brother was dead and came to life, and he was lost and was found.”
The Prodigal son was not literally dead, but he was lost in his sinful course. Leading into this illustration, Jesus explains what “lost” means…
“‘Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost’. I tell you that thus there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents than over ninety-nine righteous ones who have no need of repentance”. Clearly according to Jesus, “dead” means lost in sin. Alive (found) means repentant of their sins.
Matt. 8:21-22:
“Then another of the disciples said to him: “Lord, permit me first to leave and bury my father.” 22 Jesus said to him: “Keep following me, and let the dead bury their dead.”
Can you see here that physically dead people cannot bury anyone? Jesus was speaking here about those with little prospect of life, as being more fit to handle pointless pursuits. This disciple, who was speaking with Christ, had a greater opportunity before him. He was in the presence of Christ and could receive “life”. Jesus tried to reason with him by revealing the potential benefits of following Christ, versus “dead works”.
Just these two of many scriptures reveal that God and Christ see “death” and “life” very differently than we do. Those physically alive can be considered dead by God. Those physically dead can be considered alive. Why? Because the life of the condemned is indeed brief. The sleeping death of the righteous is momentary.
In harmony with this truth, Rev.20:12 reads:
“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne…”. Physically dead do not stand. So this scripture relates that those physically resurrected but not yet “living” in God’s eyes, are standing before God. Can you see these things?
How do the anointed receive this standing of “life”?
Consider James 1:12; 2Pet.1:2; 1John1:1-3; 3:14 also
(Revelation 2:7) “Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations: To him that conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’
(Revelation 2:10) “Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
And also Rev.20:6; 21:6; 22:19.
Rev.20:4,5 continues:
“And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years.” This Thousand Year period is that Judgment Day.
Rev. 20:12 reads:
“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. But another scroll was opened; it is the scroll of life. And *the dead were judged* out of those things written in the scrolls according to their deeds.
Let us see something about this thousand year period…
Rev.20:3 reads:
“And he (Jesus) hurled him (Satan) into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.”
So, we see two occurrences during this “thousand years”. Scrolls (knowledge) are opened (understood). Also, Satan’s deceptions are eliminated for that period, so that the imparting of this divine knowledge is not interfered with, by Satan’s “misleading” efforts (Rev.12:9; 20:10). During this thousand year period that provides the understanding that leads to life; the “dead” who accept and follow it, will be brought to “life”.
As Rev.20:4,5 continues:
“The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.”
So we see that, considered righteous and donned in white robes; the sealed anointed receive life upon their spiritual resurrection previous to the commencement of the Thousand Year Judgment Day. The rest of sinful mankind, take time to wash their sins away in the blood of the Lamb. They must avail themselves of the knowledge being provided during that time. If they do, and they obey it, they too will receive life, sinlessness, and the restored condition that Adam originally enjoyed before his sin.
Next you raise 1Cor. 15:23.
Verse 22 goes nicely with the subject we just finished:
“For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.” Perhaps you have deeper understanding of this now. The sealed anointed are not made alive in the flesh, are they? Yet they are still made alive. So this is not speaking of physical life, but spiritual. All will eventually receive this endless life, whether in spirit bodies, or in flesh on earth.
1Cor.15:23,24:
“But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.”
This refers to the resurrection to everlasting life where one will never die again.
First, we know Christ was the firstborn from the dead, in the sense that he would never die again. Although others were resurrected before his, they died again (1Kings 17:17-24; Acts 9:36-42; John 11:38-44).
On the contrary, Christ was resurrected for all time. But, he was the “first among many brothers”…
(Romans 8:29) “because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers”
(Acts 26:23) “that the Christ was to suffer and, as the first to be resurrected from the dead, he was going to publish light both to this people and to the nations.”
(Colossians 1:18) “and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16) “because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first”
…so, those “in union with Christ” (the sealed anointed) will be raised to “life” (meaning no second death), first. These are the ones who “belong to the Christ”.
Those offered life during the Thousand Year Judgment Day, will still be liable to the second death, should they prove unworthy of life during that period. We know that when Satan is let out of the Abyss after the thousand years are finished, indeed, many will follow Satan and die…
(Revelation 20:7-9) Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma′gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them.
So we see it is true, those who are not anointed, nor part of the “first resurrection”, do not receive life forever (“come to life”), until this final test is over, or, “until the Thousand Years were ended” (Rev. 20:5).
Do you see this?
After this final test, 1Cor. 15:24 “Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.”…
Yes, when Satan, death, and all those who do not truly love God (despite his gracious generosity during Judgment Day) are brought to their end, Jesus will give the restored Creation back to Jehovah. God’s original purpose…to be the King of all sinless creation, will be realized.
All the dead, the “righteous and the unrighteous”…”all those in the Memorial tombs” will be resurrected well before the Thousand Years ends (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15). Being resurrected, and “coming to life” are two different things, as hopefully, you can now see.
The word “resurrection”, literally means “to stand again”. Therefore when we read, “I saw the dead…*standing* before the throne” it is clear…these ones are physically resurrected and alive. Yet, these same ones have not yet received everlasting “life”, so they are still considered spiritually “dead”.
(note: not all will be resurrected. Those considered too wicked for reform, are sent to Gehenna directly from this life (Matt.23:33;10:28; Mark 9:43).
In summary:
The “righteous” are resurrected first into spirit beings to rule with Christ (Rev. 19:8).
The “unrighteous” are the rest…survivors and resurrected ones who, during the Thousand Years, receive the instruction and opportunity that leads to perfection, sinlessness, and everlasting life.
At the end of the Thousand Years, Satan will test every one of these perfect, educated individuals. Afterward, those who pass this test (originally brought upon perfect Adam and Eve), will “come to life” everlastingly. Those who fail will suffer divine execution, to be thrown into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna), the “second death”, never to be seen again.
(Revelation 20:14-15) And death and Ha′des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. 15 Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire.”
I sincerely hope that my explanation was understandable to you. I also hope that what I covered here touched upon all your questions. As best as I can understand your question, I think these scriptures should cover it.
If not, please just clarify the point in question for me.
Thank you for your question.
Jehovah’s spirit bless you,
Pearl
This same person followed up with additional questions, especially regarding the scriptural validity of persons living on earth. This included the idea that no one is on earth during the Thousand Year Judgement Day.
My reply is as follows:
First question: How do we know that people will be on the earth during the Thousand Year Reign?
Here are a few of the many scriptures to reason on regarding that indication…
Rev.20:6; Rev.5:10 Where is the Millennial rulership of the Kingdom Heirs exercised?
Psalm 37:29, “The righteous themselves will *possess the earth*, And they will reside *forever* upon it.”
Ask yourself, what possession are the “righteous promised?
How long will they possess it?
What is your answer?
Is this speaking of this world as we know it? Is it not true that in the present world, the righteous are not the ones with the power and ownership of the earth?
Do you then conclude that this scripture reveals the righteous possessing the earth, after the Kingdom begins it’s rule over the earth?
This is in harmony with, and therefore is reinforced by the promise made to Abraham. Consider what he was told concerning his “seed”:
(Genesis 13:15-16) “because *all the land* at which you are looking, to you and to your seed I am going to give it *until time indefinite*. 16 And I will constitute your seed like the dust particles of the earth, so that, if a man could be able to count the dust particles of the earth, then your seed could be numbered.
Here we see that God’s promise to give Abraham’s seed all the land UNTIL TIME INDEFINITE, has not yet occurred. This inheritance is yet future.
(Genesis 22:17-18) I shall surely bless you and I shall surely multiply your seed like the stars of the heavens and like the grains of sand that are on the seashore; and your seed will take possession of the gate of his enemies. 18 And *by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves* due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.
Again, we have not yet seen this fulfillment either…that of ALL NATIONS being blessed by means of “Abraham’s seed”.
These promises were confirmed to Jacob:
(Genesis 28:13-14) And, look! there was Jehovah stationed above it, and he proceeded to say: “I am Jehovah the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac. The land upon which you are lying, to you I am going to give it and to your seed. 14 And your seed will certainly become like the dust particles of the earth, and *you will certainly spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south*, and by means of you and by means of your seed all the families of the ground will certainly bless themselves”.
Here we see the extent of “all the land”, as conveyed as “to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south”.
(Genesis 48:4) And he went on to say to me, ‘Here I am making you fruitful, and I will make you many and I will transform you into a congregation of peoples and I will give this land to your seed after you *for a possession to time indefinite*.
Again we see this inheritance for the “righteous” of Abraham’s seed, The North, the South, the East, and the West… all directions, being given just as is stated in Psalm 37:29…forever.
But who is this seed? It is primarily Christ that receives this inheritance…
(Galatians 3:16) Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. It says, not: “And to seeds,” as in the case of many such, but as in the case of one: “And to your seed,” who is Christ.”.
Did Jesus inherit the earth as the heir of Abraham?
(Matthew 28:18) “And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth”.
So we see Jesus did inherit the entire earth.
But we read that the “righteous” will possess the earth! Does Jesus share this inheritance?
(Galatians 3:29) Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, *YOU are really Abraham’s seed*, *heirs with reference to a promise*”. What promise would that be?
The promise to receive “all the land”, and “bless” “all the Nations”.
When the above scripture says, “You are really Abraham’s seed”, was this speaking of Jews?
(Romans 9:6-8) However, it is not as though the word of God had failed. For not all who [spring] from Israel are really “Israel.” 7 Neither because they are Abraham’s seed are they all children, but: “What will be called ‘your seed’ will be through Isaac.” 8 That is, the children in the flesh are not really the children of God, but the children by the promise are counted as the seed.
Here we see that the heirs are the “children of God”, “through Issac”, meaning Christ. His “children” are through “a promise”.
(Galatians 3:26-29) YOU are all, in fact, sons of God *through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus*. 27 For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] *in union with Christ Jesus*. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, *YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise*.”
The scriptures clearly convey that this inheritance of the earth, is through Christ. It belongs to those who are “baptized into Christ”. Those baptized “into Christ”, become part of his body. Again, these are the anointed, the seed of Abraham.
Therefore, since Abraham was promised the literal earth, Christ inherited the literal earth, the the “righteous” are to inherit the literal earth…..forever. Why then, would they be resurrected to be in Heaven forever? They are not.
But we are not done. More scriptures…
What about during the Thousand Years?
(Revelation 21:2-3) I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down *out of heaven* from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is *with mankind*, and he will *reside with them*, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.
We are told that “New Jerusalem” (Abraham’s seed), comes out of heaven to be with mankind. (literal Greek for “mankind” is; of the earth, of the dust) Those who LEAVE HEAVEN to be with physical men, are then, no longer in heaven (out of heaven). Where then, are they? Can you reason on this?
If you still have your doubts, lets go to Rev. 20:7-9:
“Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the EARTH…
The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the EARTH and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city.”
Where does Satan go as soon as he is let out of his prison? We are told he wants to mislead nations “in the four corners of the EARTH”. Therefore, if you are reasonable, you know that he is rushing upon earthly inhabitants, “As soon as the Thousand Years” conclude.
Not only do we see the earth inhabited at the conclusion of this era, we see that the “holy ones”, and the “beloved city” of Kingdom heirs, are also among mankind. This is consistent with being told that they came “out of heaven” as God’s “tent” to reside with mankind. What for? Remember…to bless them (Gen.22:18; Rev.21:3,4).
They are the means by which the scrolls are opened (life-giving knowledge provided), and through whom the provisions of life (fruit and leaves from “trees of life”) will be provided.
In Rev.ch.22, it is explained how Abraham’s seed blesses those on earth. They are depicted as “trees of life”. Those of all the Nations who eat of their fruit and leaves, are “cured”. (This is the dead being brought to life.) This occurs during the Thousand Year Judgement Day, when those “scrolls are opened”. The knowledge contained in those “scrolls”, is that “fruit and leaves”. Those who take in, accept, and obey that knowledge, “come to life” by the end of the Thousand Years.
At Rev. 21:5, it reads:
“Look! I am making all things new.”
In harmony with this, at 2 Peter 3:13:
“But there are new heavens and a *NEW earth* that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.”
God says that he is making all things new, including the earth. When he says that the “former things have passed away”, does he mean that they no longer exist? Being made new, applies in the same way to the earth, as it does to the other things mentioned…
In Rev.21:4, the things done away with are the things out of harmony with God’s loving purpose; tears, death, mourning, outcry, and pain”. This does not mean that all human emotion will be destroyed…only the bad parts of it. In the same was, a “new earth” will not mean that the earth is destroyed…only the bad parts of it.
God would not give an inheritance to his Sons that was defective. The inheritance (earth, inhabitants) need to be “made new”, made free of defect. The Thousand Years is the period during which this will occur.
(Isaiah 45:18) For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, *who formed it even to be inhabited*: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
Here Jehovah states his purpose for the earth…to be inhabited. This appears in harmony with all the above scriptures.
If you have a scripture that indicates that the future of ALL mankind is heavenly, send it to me.
Regarding your citing of Matt.22:29,30…it is thoroughly covered at an article, located at pearl-marriageinthekingdom.blogspot.com
That article also covers 1Cor.15:35.
Isaiah 65:20,…This is speaking of the Thousand year Judgement Day. This description is referring to a spiritual condition. During that time, all will have the opportunity to attain spiritual maturity. Those who do not appreciate this provision will be removed, regardless of their age or maturity of knowledge. What will matter is if they are choosing to sin (“and as for the sinner, although a hundred years of age he will have evil called down upon him.”). If they are choosing to sin during this period of God’s graciousness, they will die. Remember…” Rev.20:5 (“The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.”) I have already explained to you that this “life” is referring to eternal life.
To quote you,
“Rev. 22:14, says that whoever wash their robes may gain entrance into the city by the gates. The great crowd has washed their robes clean in Christ’s blood, and the city we are talking about here is “heavenly Jerusalem.” (Rev.7:9; Rev.21:2)
Yes, this is just what I said in the last answer. The “great crowd” does go to heaven. They are the heirs with Christ, proven by the scriptures already given. These are part of the group that “blesses” “all the Nations” on earth, when they “come down out of heaven”, during the Thousand Year Judgement Day.
You said,
“Now what about the great crowd (If you can show me a scripture that says they will be ressurected ‘during’ the thousand years)
I wonder if you read my last answer. I did not say this. They are resurrected in the first resurrection… as I said, before the Thousand Years commences.
You said,
“surely all Jehovahs witnesses that die before armageddon, must also be considered alive in Gods eyes, and they cannot be the ones standing before the throne in Rev.20:12, as the bible describes them as being dead (in Gods eyes).
I would never make this claim as a certainty…that Jehovah’s Witnesses are considered alive by God. You are mistaken. We are told that any who receive the mark of the beast on their forehead, are NOT written in the Lamb’s scroll of life. No one is “alive” until the Thousand Years ends (Rev.20:5), unless they were part of the “first resurrection”. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not part of the first resurrection, unless they are among the sealed anointed.
If you would like to learn more about this condemning mark of the Wild Beast, you can read:
pearl-wildbeast.blogspot.com
As far as why the scriptures focus on the spiritual resurrection, you can find the answer at pearl-marriageinthekingdom.blogspot.com
You said,
“To say that people are going to enter the 1000 years and just not age or die anymore is ‘wishfull’ thinking ,but its not what the bible says.”
Are you thinking that I am saying this? Then you really did not read my previous answer. Did you not read that those who side with Satan *at the end of the Thousand Years* are executed? Did you not read that eternal life is not attained until the thousand years ends? (Rev. 20:5). That is because during that period, as you brought up in Isa.65:20, those who do not pursue divine education and obey it, will die during this period, as I have already explained in depth.
You said, “If Jesus corrected people (pharisees) who were teaching an earthly ressurection”.
Jesus was not speaking to pharisees who believed in an earthly resurrection in this account. He was speaking to Sadducees who did not believe in resurrection at all. How this effected Jesus’ answer is covered in the article I recommended.
4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com